GunnerBill

Sure. Financially it worked. Career wise it was the end.

I'd give them the edge too. Miami 9-8. New England 7-10. Jets 5-12.

Correct. It was a direct trade rather than a move up trade.

We traded for Bryce Brown, running back from the Eagles, during the draft. 2014 maybe?

It was.

In which case I just think you are not watching the right thing.

I did warch the playoff games back on all 22 and I do think you are wrong. You haven't watched the all22 you have watched a couple of twitter posts and are spitballing.

I don't disagree the Bills were beaten mentally on that play both coaching wise and execution wise. But even Josh says he got the protection call wrong. It is idiotic to try and deny that as a contributory factor. But to the point of this debate.... Spencer was "abysmal" in the playoffs because of that one rep? Is that your argument? That is even more idiotic.

True. Was a significant coaching upgrade. But also Mitchell and DeJean were significant pieces.

It worked for the Eagles!

Karlaftis wins the rep but he is way out to the right. If the middle of the pocket stays in any way intact he has zero chance of getting anywhere near Josh. That was a failure of the protection call. Spags fooled Josh pre-snap and Josh made the wrong protection adjustment. Karlaftis only has even a slight chance of affecting that play because Josh ends up scrambling to him. And that is one play. His run blocking in the Kansas City game was awesome. And he was really good in the other two games. Saying he was abysmal in the playoffs because of that one rep - which was not even the biggest cause of failure on that play is a frankly ludicrous take.

I have had two conversations in the last two weeks with posters here who still want to argue he can play outside (not permanently but as a move receiver) and one person even said they expect him to be used next season "more like Diggs was for us." Maybe that is a minority and it influences my pick because it is recent but I do think consistently since he arrived there have been Bills fans predicting him to be something he hasn't been. I think he is what he is. My season prediction for him last season was absolutely spot on the money. But if you go back to that thread there were a lot of people predicting over 1,000 yards.

Eh? He was not abysmal in the playoffs.

I agree with @Kirby Jackson it depends whether you mean by Bills fans or by the general NFL media / talking heads. By Bills fans: Overrated: Shakir Underrated: Oliver By wider NFL media etc: Overrated: Kincaid Underrated: Benford

I genuinely don't think that will happen. If he is here I can see him holding out of camp but post Lev Bell my sense is agents do not tell their guys to hold out for half a season. Bell was never the same player after.

It wouldn't have been the way I went about it.

Yea me too. Harmon > Grant. I also don't have my board in front of me. Grant may be a tad higher on mine but we are only talking late 30s.

I have Mason Graham #1, Nolen #2. I love Nolen. But I still just question how you get he and Ed Oliver onto the field at the same time. If we didn't already have Ed I would be banging the table very hard for Walter Nolen.

Barron would not have been a good pick. Again just strategically, off the ball linebacker with a trade up in the top 10. Yuck.

Yea I think that is right. It is 5th out of those 5 positions. But nobody is saying prioritise it over WR, LT, QB, EDGE if you have guys of the same tier there to take. Where I take issue with Bill is he would literally never draft one in the first round. In 2012 when the Bills took Gilmore he was the best player available at a premium position. To get a guy who went after that you can make a reasonable case was on Gilmore's level at a premium position you have to go down as far as Russell Wilson in the 3rd. Now in hindsight that would have been a great pick. But Russ wasn't seen as that level of guy by anyone coming out, even those who liked him. In 2017 you can have a legitimate argument about TJ Watt who went a few picks after a Tre but he is realistically the only one. Again in terms of determining the BPA at a premium spot those were both good selections. You can criticise the draft strategy from 2017, that's legitimate, but it is a different question than the Tre pick.

I like him a lot. Risky in terms of 1 year production but he really pops on film.

Because not everything is about the Bills alone.

They did it. And I applaud them for doing so. They hadn't hired a coach almost old enough to be President. Raiders are NOT going QB at #6.

The Raiders are not going QB at 6. This is the final nail in that coffin. You don't hire a 70 odd year old Head Coach let him bring his placeholder QB from his last place in, then extend said QB to waste draft capital on a replacement. They are gonna try and win now with Grandpa Pete and Geno.

I think outside corners are a premium position (alongside QB, pass rusher, left tackle and outside receiver). And I think what should take priority is the best player available at a premium position. When you do that well - as the Bills did with Gilmore and White it can prove itself worthwhile. When they do it badly it doesn't matter if it is Elam at corner or Williams at tackle or Maybin at edge.... it will be a disaster.