Dan

I think that right there is the one thing, more than any other, that Marv et al. needs to do. I think they've already started with some of the moves they've made. Players moves, new schemes, constant retoolind, these things breed losing records more than anything else. Marv needs to change the atmosphere around this team and that means stability and a sound plan. The rest will follow. The alternative approach (i.e. the Redskins) is to sign big time players and coaches; and that may produce some wins and lots of hype. But, in the end, hoe many teams build long term success that way.

In all honesty, Lienart might only get one more game. He does, after all have 2 losses in a row. And Young didn't win the game, the Redskins are just that bad. I have complete an total confidence that if any one of these guys were on the Bills team, there'd be a multitude of posts calling for us to draft/trade from someone else.

I do see your point about JP's poor play last season. He did look misearable. However, given that a career backup was the only option, I still say you leave him in. No player ever got better by riding the bench. It takes playing time, plain and simple. We all knew he was raw and needed extra playing time; yet so many have seemed so quick to forget that. As far as loosing the rest of the team...that's easy. You tell them in no uncertain terms, that I'm the coach and I'll decide who plays and who doesn't. If you don't like that, the door is right there. Have a nice season sitting on your couch. There is no excuse for a player ever questioning the coaches decision. Period. None of those "veteran" palyers were doing a darn thing to help the team win, either. So, until I saw some effort from them; they have zero input. One of the more vocal critics (perhaps) was Moulds. How many times did he run back for the ball? How many drops did he have? How was his blocking downfield? I'd have told him and all the players, to look in the mirror if they want to see someone that's not giving it their all to win each week. As bad as JP may have looked and occasionally still looks, I don't think anyone can ever say it was because he wasn't trying. Perhaps more than any other player, he's given every bit of effort each and every week of the year to win. So, to fault him and favor a spoiled vet, is completely wrong and leads to new coaches.

In a word... Absolutely yes, I would have. In a season where we weren't going anywhere anyway, why not let your young QB gain experiences? The problem was apparently you and too many others actually bought into the hype and thought we were actual playoff contenders last year. We now see how terribly wrong that line of thinking was.

This is absurd. Leinart, Young ?! Rivers, Grossman hot QBS with poise? How many playoff games have these guys won? How great did Grossman look this week? There are so many problems with this line of thinking, it befuddles my brain to think about. Most of these types of posts boil down to one thing... a complete lack of knowledge. JP,I agree, is winning all these games and he's not looking like the second coming of John Elway - engineering comeback drives in what 50% or so of his few starts. But, what you're missing is his clear and mostly steady progress. The big knock on JP was he was raw coming out of college. Raw, almost by definition, implies that it'll take him longer to develop. That's exactly what we're seeing - a good young QB with lots of talent, but in dire need of polishing. He's getting the playing time and he's getting better. People can scream for Leinart, Quinn, or any other guy they THINK will immediately win us a superbowl all they want. I'll cheer for the guy that's done everything on AND off the field to demonstrate his dedication to Buffalo and to becoming a winner. PS. If we cut every player that wasn't playing great, we'd have about 3 guys on this team after the last 2 weeks.

End of discussion. Next thread please.

He should have listened to the crowd and known the hit was coming.

Then why are we arguing. Because I agree, Lienart's playing a good game; but in no way should we be second guessing JP.

I'm not putting him down at all. I'm just suggesting that he's not the future hall of famer that some people are trying to make him out to be. He's has 2 good games and suddenly half the board wants us to dump JP in his stead. I'm sure I could pull up stats to reflect JP's had good games as well. Why can't we just be a little patient before we lament the loss of Leinart and having to be stuck with JP? Leinart has looked good, sure. But, lets be rationalistic about it.

I believe the Cards lost that game. and ML - 22/35 253yds 2TD 1INT. throw in a few sacks. By JP standards, that an average game in a loss. Certainly not great. I'm not saying Rex is great. I'm just saying everyone else was saying he was great.

A few points: This is one game. As good as Leinart looks, that's how bad Grossman's looking. Just a day ago, Rex was one of the best QBs in the league. So which is it? One game does not determine a season, let alone a career. The game plan. As someone else posted, this is a great game plan that's being executed well. Why don't we try to protect our young QB behind a bad line with quick drops and roll outs? It works. Here's the evidence.

Who can tell? All these high motor white guys look the same to me.

Excellent Post!! Email this to OBD. Now, please. Time to go back to How not to Tackle 101.

Maybe..just maybe its because he watches alot of Bills games. Don't you do the same thing? A flag is thrown, and you immediately start thinking.... what are they gonna call on us now? Then if the call goes against the Lions (in this case), you sit back and think "whew". That's pretty much my reaction, at least. I think Tasker does a decent job, worlds better than a Randy Cross. Also, the comment "if the Lions play well in the 4th, they'll win the game" He was dead on accurate. What's wrong with stating the truth? The Lions dominated us all day. At that point in the game it was theirs to win or lose. Why fault an announcer for stating it? Why be politically correct and never say a single definititve thing?

Point well made. Yes, I admit I was seduced. Hence my bitterness today. I really went into this season thinking this would be exactly the type of team we'd see. But, I allowed myself to get hopeful again. I have seen progress in many areas, but damn it gets frustrating when you know we should be able to beat a team like Detroit. It's tough being a Bills fan sometimes.

Good Point.

I know.... I'm being ridiculous. But, I've given up trying to argue what we obviously won't agree on.

You obviously have never played the game or never seen one in person, because Nate tips the balls in purpose. He's so good, he figures he's tired of catching all the interceptions. So, he's tryin to help the other guys out. Its not his fault they're not as good as he is.

You're right. Nate is by far the best player on our team and easily the best cornerback in the league. The only question is will Marv be awake enough to pay him the $7-$8 mill/yr he wants for the priviledge of letting us see Nate school the league's best receivers. I'm not sure how I could ever think Nate was average. He clearly is so good, opposing teams shudder in fear of even getting near his side of the field.

Sure it is, but I really don't have time (or the inclination) to watch the game and count it all up. But, I'm sure its a greater majority than times when there's a true pocket for him.

What pocket are we talkin about? I can hardly recall a pocket. JP drops back and has 2 choices - immediately throw or run. He has about 2 seconds to make that decision before someone is on him. This is pretty much 90% of our pas attempts.

Actually, McGehee was the 4th leading rusher (I think). But, perhaps its because he's good (which I know many refuse to believe). Also, perhaps its because several of the top rushers have had their buys; hence, they've played one less game. Also, perhaps our line is better at run blocking than pass blocking. Which begs the question, why all the 5 step drops today? Regardless, our line is pretty bad. I know it. Everyone with 2 eyes knows it.

Generally, I'd agree with you. But, I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to see that our OLine is pretty lousy on a consistent basis.

To put this loss and much of our poor play these last two weeks on Losman is the very definition of "not seeing the forest for the trees".

Its funny how every week we play the best "insert position" in the league right now.