Dan

Definitely. The Colts and Pats both have a great quick passing game and thast definitely skews numbers like these. Many of PM's and TB's throws were quick slants. So, how much time would they have had if they hadn't thrown it within 2 seconds. By the way, the average handoff time appeared to be about 1.3 seconds (not official, just somthing I noticed when I recorded the time thinking it was a pass). The Colts & Pats definitely have better offenses and supporting casts. There's no doubt about that. My intention was only to look at JP's time to throw. I thought it would be much lower, but it wasn't. I think what's most telling about this simple analysis is it points to the difference between Quality and Quantity. Although all 3 qbs had simialr Quantities of time; Manning and Brady seemed to have far better Quality time to find an open reciever and throw. Also, I think this points to the difference between looking at stats and looking at the game. Stat-wise, they have similar time, but if you actually watch the game you see a different story. Sometimes numbers do lie. (It's kinda like mythbusters episode - does driving fast over speed bumps lead to a less bumpy ride. They had data to show the ride was actually much bumpier at higher speeds, but the driver said it "felt" less bumpy. )

OK. I decided to look objectively at how much time Losman has before he throws or gets sacked. So I watched the Packer game and recorded from the time the ball was snapped until he threw it, got sacked, or took off running. Then I thought why not compare to Manning and Brady, the game was on NFL Replay. I could only do part of that game, because my wife was demanding the TV back. None the less, I was surprised by the numbers. I thought JP would have far less time to throw, what I found was quite different. Here's the numbers and my conclusions: JP's Time: 03.7 complete 03.1 incomplete royal not seen 02.3 quick pa to shelton 02.5 sack -pennington beat 03.8 short underneath to evans 03.6 royal dropped - over db on royals hands 02.0 designed dump off to AT 03.3 sack up middle 01.7 complete 3step drop to reed 02.8 scramble to avoid sack 02.9 down field to evans - drop on his hands safety was there if thrown longer 01.9 rollout complete to price 02.9 sack 03.0 incomplete to royal - near interception 03.9 sack 03.2 incomplete high to davis 02.8 short to shelton - designed 03.4 sack up middle 03.2 incomplete - tipped 01.9 incomplete royal drop - low pass 03.6 touchdown to evans 7-14 (5 sacks) (so I missed one somewhere) Min: 1.7 seconds Max: 3.9 seconds Mean: 2.9 seconds Incomplete pass to Price in 1st quarter; he had Royal underneath, but appeared to be going for the touchdown and over threw. On dropped pass to Evans that was short; the safety was deep and if the ball is thrown deeper, he'd definitely have a play on the ball. So not a bad throw afterall, in my opinion. Peyton's Time: 02.9 incompete 02.3 incomplete 05.0 compete - scrambled left 02.4 complete 04.1 complete 02.2 touchdown 02.5 complete 02.8 complete 02.6 complete 03.8 complete 03.7 incomplete -PI 02.7 sack 02.9 intereference 01.4 complete 02.3 incomplete 03.8 thrown away 03.1 sack 02.8 complete 04.6 pressured complete 04.1 complete 01.2 touchdown 13-19 (2 sacks) (selected - I didn't watch the whole game) Min: 1.2 seconds Max: 5.0 seconds Mean: 3.0 seconds Brady's Time: 02.9 complete 02.0 complete 02.4 complete 03.4 complete 02.0 complete 01.8 complete 02.9 scrambles 02.1 incomplete interference 02.5 incomplete 03.7 incomplete 6-9 (0 sacks) (selected - I didn't watch the whole game) Min: 1.8 seconds Max: 3.7 seconds Mean: 2.6 seconds =============================================================================== It appears from these limited numbers that JP has just about the same amount of time to throw as Manning and Brady. However (JP haters knew that was coming), on every pass the Buffalo LOS is getting pushed into JP's face. There was almost no pocket to step into. There was almost no separation between him and the pass rush. In contrast, although Brady and Manning got rid of the ball just as quickly; they had far more separation between them and the rush. Quite often, they could step up in the pocket and really get behind their throws. In conclusion, given this very limited sample survey, I'd offer that the Buffalo line does give JP time to throw. However, they're consistently getting pushed backwards. The result is JP "appears" to have less time in the pocket and defintely is making more "hurried" throws. The other observation, that seems to be missing from Buffalo's passing protection is the occurence of "passing lanes". There are no clear lanes for JP to readily see the reciever. Manning seemed to consistently have great passing lanes to readily see the field. The other decidedly noticeable observation was the play calling. The Pats and Colts defintely seem to mix the plays up better. Of course, its very obvious that Manning and Brady are definitely more polished QBs; therefore, they're easily able to scan the field and make the quicker decision. Given the separation when they threw, I'd guess they could have easily had an extra 0.5 second to throw the ball; whereas JP seemed to always throw at the last possible instant. Talk amongst yourselves... *Disclaimer - I'm not the best with math, so please check my addition and division, if you wish. I also missed a pass in the Bills game and because I was watching Replay, I certainly did not get all the passes for Manning and Brady. However, these numbers do show a trend which I think is representative of reality for these 2 games.

Agreed. The only prayer is to run, run, run, run, run some more. Do everything possible to shorten the game and keep Manning et al. off the field. That and win the turn over battle will give the Bills a chance.

I know, but I just couldn't resist. It was too easy.

He now.... Nate doesn't get burned THAT often! Just wait, you won't be happy until we let him go and then you see how good a player he really is.

Beat me to it.

My initial thought was those were Patriots unis - white shirts blue pants; but I guess they could easily be Titan uniforms as well. The only player I can make out with any degree of confidence is Flutie walking off the field at about the 35 yd line.

Is this the best everyone can do?

11th District - North Carolina

Gringo is putting his sig where his mouth is and is willing to give up his sig for the rest of the season. I propose we take it to a vote. So, lets post some ideas here. In a few days, I'll pick what I think are the best ones and we'll make a final poll to pick the winner. My first crack was.... "I have so much man-love for JP, I'm about to explode." As gringo pointed out, I'm sure we can do better that that.

Its a deal. I truly hope you do win. But, if you don't I'm thinking a poll would be good for TBD morale. My first crack at one is..... "I have so much man-love for JP its ready to explode."

No problem, I'll let you write the sig. Or maybe we can do a poll or something?

If that's what it takes to get the Bills to win. I'll take that bet.

Therein lies the problem. If the coaches decide JP is not the answer and cut him... then what? We're screwed. There are few, if any, viable free agents. And if you draft someone, including the Almighty Quinn, you're right back to where we are with JP. The league is littered with backups that play for a game or 2 or 3 and look great, but never cut it when given a chance as a starter. So, guys like Shaub are by no means a sure thing - even if we can get them to sign with us. And there are far, far fewer draft choices that produce in their first year. Hence, I think we are seeing forced patience by the coaches, because they know the best thing is to hang on to JP and hopefully he pans out - even if that takes another year. Quite honestly, I'll be very surprised if we have a different QB next year. Just imagine this board when JP isn't cut the day after the season ends. It's gonna be great.

Read any comment from Jauron - the Bills head coach, by the way. There is no controversy. Jauron has stated repeatedly that he's sticking with JP. He's stated he had no thoughts of pulling him last week against the Packers. He's said over and over they need to be forcefully patient with JP. He's even gone so far as to say he thinks JP will be a good QB in this league. In addition, several players (most notably Lee Evans) have said on several occasions this year that they think JP gives the Bills the best chance and they're behind him. So, regardless of what any fan says or any Bills beat reporter says, there is no QB controversy in Buffalo. JP is our starter and will remain our starter for the foreseeable future. I'd strongly suggest that if any one wants to see another qb play, they should just watch a different team.

Good point. Let's trade for Brady and we're in good shape. Get er done Marv.

I was just kidding around with my post. I agree, I give us zero chance to win this game and a marginal chance to lose by 14-20 points; more likely its a 3 touchdown loss. However, I very much hope for us to win and will be cheering mightily for a miracle. But reality is what it is.

And then they'll rest in the 2nd half, allowing us to score and make the game appear much closer! No way we're blown out.

Agreed. And look how much worse the Raiders look. They had as many sacks in the 1st quarter as J Lo had all day yesterday.

I like the way you think... and your perserverence at getting facts.

It's refreshing to see that I'm not the only one that some some positives yesterday. Honestly, anyone that thought our offense was going to be on fire a week after completely overhauling the offensive line... well I don't know what to say. Also, someone posted in another thread, we had a 10 point lead through much of the game. A point I hadn't considered. That could certainly explain the overly conservative approach much of the game. Hopefully, the Bills can look good against the Colts, but reality often bites. Let's all just hope for more improvement.

38. let him play for at least another full year.

Look, I'm not saying the Bills played a great! game and deserve our unconditional praise. All I'm saying is that there were good plays made by Buffalo players (even JP). Yet no one wants to give credit for that. If some ESPN writer pens a piece talking about how bad Favre played and how he gave the game away. Wouldn't you be upset that he didn't even mention any of the good plays our defenders made? I would. And it especially upsets me when fans of this team don't acknowledge any of the good play.

Yes we lost it because the Jets beat us. I know its a shock, but the Jets are playing better than us.

Perhaps Favre was changing the play because he saw the defense, the center didn't hear and snapped the ball early? Nope you're right. I'm sorry. I'll stop arguing. Favre gave us the win because he saw how bad we were and felt sorry for us. I can't wait till we cut everyone next year. Think of the draft picks we can get, if Marv wakes up long enough to actually trade a few rather than just releasing them all. Go Bills in the draft!