Kirby Jackson

FWIW I’m with you here to an extent. This holds especially true with a young QB. If I’m the Bills I like having a voice that’s been in QB meetings for a while to help. It’s more about the preparation than the playing for me. Josh is still young enough that a guy like Barkley is important. If I’m the Saints, Tampa or GB though I really don’t care. Give me the best guy behind Brees, Brady and Rodgers. Barkley is as valuable for Allen’s development as he is on the field. We saw that with Darnold last year.

Andy Reid never played in a real game either and he’s a pretty good QB coach. I don’t worry about that if his role is mentor. Webb wouldn’t need to play here. If Allen goes out for an extended period of time Fromm will get the ball and a vet will be signed to back him up (presumably Barkley). This is assuming that Barkley is released which neither of us thinks is likely. I honestly don’t worry that much about experience when it comes to playing. Everyone will play their 1st game at some point. Just because you’ve played doesn’t mean you can be successful. Peterman has played and I would take dozens of guys that haven’t over him tomorrow. In the backup role for me it’s more about the ability to go .500 over a month. That’s all that matters to me. You don’t need to win games you just need to not lose them. Fromm feels like a guy that has done that at a high level. Game manager carries such a negative connotation but it shouldn’t. Fromm is that and in a good way. I felt that way about Tyrod. There’s a reason that he had a winning record here and it isn’t because he went out and won a lot of games. He just didn’t lose them. This Bills team has a lot of talent (and pretty much everywhere). If Josh goes out for a month they’ll need to play good d, run the ball, not turn it over and make a few plays on 3rd down. If they do that they can escape that month without too much damage. It’s what the Saints and Teddy did last year (they actually thrived like that).

They aren’t going to risk TRYING to sneak him to the PS. If he looks horrible it’s a risk that they aren’t willing to take. That holds especially true with an abbreviated offseason. His arm strength won’t improve much. He’s a big, experienced, developed prospect. He is smart though. He won’t be Peterman with a lack of arm strength making mind-numbing decisions. I agree it would be a good use of a 5th round pick. If he had Case Keenum’s career we’d be happy. He would insulate this team. Webb on the PS could be the end of Barkley. They both could be gone. Barkley is an okay backup imo. He’s one of Josh’s closest friends and by all accounts a great teammate. I could see him cut and getting added back if Josh gets hurt too. Barkley could end up in a lot of different spots this offseason. I’d probably keep him though if I had a choice. This team is ready to compete IMO and the last thing that they need is uncertainty in that room. If Josh misses a month they need to go 2-2. Fromm may end up getting the ball but Barkley is capable of being 2-2 with this team.

I couldn’t agree more John. If Flores would have received a few COY votes last year I wouldn’t have blinked. That team had zero talent and played hard. They were prepared and overachieved.

I think Fromm is a lock. Barkley is the one fighting for the roster spot imo. If the Bills think that Fromm is ready for the #2 role (which he might be) Barkley could be gone. I’m on record as Fromm won’t be more than a backup in the NFL. With that being said, one of Fromm’s biggest strengths is his floor. He isn’t some guy that’s going to come into the league and take giant leaps forward. He’s a cerebral, experienced, SEC quarterback. His learning curve is as small as just about any rookie can have. His ceiling just isn’t that high.

I agree here. They are the team in the division, along with the Bills, trending up.

I have Wilson in the yes category. I have him behind only Mahomes at this point (in any position). I think the world of Russell Wilson. My hesitation is ONLY age related. If he were to come here tomorrow we may win Super Bowls now. He would be battling the Chiefs and Ravens though. If we didn’t get one in the next 3 years (for example) you’d be looking at a 35 or 36 year-old QB and may run out of time. With Josh, in theory, you have him for 10-15 more years. That’s my only hesitation.

I can’t get on the Daniel Jones train and I know that he played well. He really belongs on the maybe list. It’s probably more of me just not believing that his ceiling is too high. He feels like he could have a Kirk Cousins career (which is very good). I guess it’s a bit hypocritical because Baker is similar in that sense. I’ve just always believed that he had “it.” Personal preference I guess but either guy could easily be on or off the maybe list.

I should watch more football... TBD is the only place in the world where you are the idiot for thinking that a guy that is 40-24, coming off a year with 4,900 yards and a 3:1 TD to INT, is a pretty good QB. Apparently I’M the one that doesn’t know what I’m watching. People point to the one game that they watched Tua play as evidence that he can’t play ?. We don’t know what kind of career he will have but if you are questioning his accuracy or play fakes you haven’t watched him play. Now if you want to say, he will never stay healthy that’s a reasoned opinion. He may not. Tua has had some big injuries.

Really? As of today I think that 90%+ objective football fans would trade for the entire “yes” list. I’d say 50%+ on the maybe list. I like Josh and think that he’s going to be really, really good. Today he is not as good as those other guys on the “yes” list. They are similar in age and experience but with more production. Josh has that “it” quality that I’m not sure all of the others do. At the same time those guys have MVPs, Super Bowls, National Championships, Heismans, etc... That is not an insult there are just a lot of really accomplished young QBs.

The reason that I included the rookies is because we are projecting. I think highly of both of them. If the list is who would you want starting a game tomorrow there are a lot of guys that weren’t named that come before Josh. The hypothetical trade is more about how do you project the QB’s in the league over the next decade? I’d trade him for Trevor Lawrence and he won’t even be in the league for a year. This is all subject to change obviously but that’s where I’m at today. I think Josh has a chance to be a star. The only guys that’s I’d consider trading him for have equal (Or close to equal) upsides and more production.

That won’t happen though. Teams just don’t do that (and yes I know Mahomes). By all accounts Tua is ready now physically. The shortened offseason will slow him but the Dolphins aren’t going to go the whole year without knowing what they have. You can’t do that with rookie contract anymore. Mahomes was a little different situation in that they had Smith throwing for over 4,000 yards and a 4:1 TD to INT. Fitz is a perfect plug but they aren’t ready to win. Tua will start double digit games if he remains healthy.

I say Fitz starts the first 4 games (ish). Tua is a great prospect with big injury concerns. If healthy his accuracy and play fakes are elite. I’m not saying that he will have Brees career but he plays a lot like him.

Factoring in contracts, age, production, etc: Yes (as of 6/1/20): Mahomes Watson Wilson Murray Lamar Maybe (but probably not as of 6/1/20): Burrow Baker Darnold Tua I go back and forth on Russell Wilson. I think that he’s the 2nd best player in football. He will be 32 this year though. I still probably would. You’d still have 6 or so elite years from him.

That’s fair. I still don’t think it’s likely because you are potentially depriving that player of an opportunity. If you use someone like Nick Mullens a few years ago as an example. Maybe even Gardner Minshew last year? Those feel like the type of guys that potentially could have been in that role. By being given an opportunity they basically secured careers. They may never play as well as they did and may never be long-term starters. Both guys though probably secured careers that will be at least 5+ years because of that. Just my thoughts but your comprise certainly gives the PA something to consider.

NFLPA would never go for that.

I think (but am not sure) that the answer is yes. With that being said they are subject to the same waiver rules as other PS players. So Brady could go to the PS but obviously someone would claim him first.

I think that my favorite thing about these type of workouts is peer accountability. You don’t want to be the guy that shows up out of shape.

Out of curiosity what specifically do you think that the coaches could contribute to this that the player’s couldn’t handle on their own? They are running routes and throwing to them. There are 9 routes in the route tree and then 2 or 3 others that can be incorporated. It’s not like it’s complicated. They weren’t out there doing route combinations or playing against defenses or anything. They are running those 9 routes vs. air and the QBs are throwing them the ball. You don’t need coaches for that. You certainly don’t need them with the threat of a CBA violation penalty. Teams have been running these QB passing drills in the offseason for as long as I can remember. This isn’t unique to us or now. It’s everyone doing it. With that being said I could absolutely see the value in having a trainer on hand. If someone tweaks a hamstring or something you’d want to start working on it. You want to make sure that they are taped, etc...

Honestly, the coaches have nothing to do with these workouts. These guys are professionals. They work at their craft. I’ve been working from home for almost the last 3 months. No one has to call me to tell me what to do. I understand the expectation of my job. I understand how to do the job. This is no different.

Just don’t think that the juice is worth the squeeze. The players don’t need to involve the coaches to run passing drills. If they can’t handle that as pros we have a bigger problem. These QBs have been in the system for a few years. They know the plays. Based on all of the videos though it was just passing drills. The receivers run the route tree while the QBs throw the route tree. It’s much more of a light workout than a football practice. This isn’t when they are installing offense. Just throwing and catching. Teams though do these kinds of things every offseason.

It’s going to come down to snap counts not a designation. If a guy plays 85% of his snaps as a slot receiver and you call him a TE he would win a case to be a receiver. I don’t know where the line is but it’s clearly higher than where Graham was.

They aren’t allowed to be so I’d say none. These guys have mostly been in the system and are pros. They know how to work on their own. That’s the expectation these days. It used to be you come to training camp to get in shape to play. Now you come to training camp ready to play. I wouldn’t be so confident in that. If that ever comes out you are violating the CBA. Teams don’t do that. The players have the playbooks and know the expectation. They don’t need a coaching staff to run routes.

Wrong!! I lost all of my money on the Arkansas Derby ?

Yeah and Josh has had those elite Jets and Dolphins teams to deal with...