BigBuff423

^^See what I mean...although through a few Shoutbox conversations with Dork, aptly named by the way, unless you're willing to ride with the popular pick, you're an idiot, a dummy, a loser....so, either follow the popular crowd, or be forced to ride the short bus because no one but him, and those who agree with him, are allowed to have an opinion divergent from his own without feeling bullied by name-calling. However, once again, welcome to this esoteric group of losers who will remain open-minded and objective about what EJ is and is not and that Tuel should at least be given a chance...this year, not last

You're going to get flamed for that one....few people will have an open mind enough to view it objectively...but welcome to the insanity.

I've said it before, including earlier in this thread but in my mind it bears repeating: EJ *must* make the forward transition to quality starting QB for this BILLS team, in the first few weeks of the regular season or DW should be absolutely incensed about the lack of play at the QB position, regardless of where anyone was Drafted...furthermore, because this team is one of the most talented across the board in all other aspects, failure at the QB position THIS year, should be a resounding beacon call to get another QB DW and staff truly believe is and can be the Franchise QB...now, some will say, where do you find this Franchise QB given that the BILLS have no 1st Round selection in 2015 Draft? The answer is better Drafting of a QB. Montana, Brees, Kaep, Wilson, (yes Brady), Romo, just to name a few are guys who were Drafted or selected after the 1st round that are quality starting QBs, and I know I threw Montana in there but that was just to make a point not to insinuate that the BILLS could find such a caliber QB in the 2nd or 3rd round next year if need be, just that NFL history has shown us that good, quality QBs that can help your team win *can* be found in Rounds after the 1st...also, there are always trade options depending on what the BILLS are looking for, see Kirk Cousins or someone else the FO believes in....I will not give DW a mulligan on EJ, even though Buddy Nix has stated it was his call, but just because you make a mistake on one QB doesn't mean you give up looking for the truest form of the answer at QB in subsequent years...to summarize, EJ needs to get it together quickly, and more than just 10 games into the season, because at that point, this team's mold will be cast for this year (most likely barring extreme luck) and DW needs to be decisive about moving on from EJ - IF, repeat IF, in fact that is necessary......

In relation to how well the FO has done in nearly all other aspects of talent and hiring of coaches, i.e. Schwartz, Pagac, Pepper, Hostler, etc. plus Spikes, Lawson and Rivers, Drafting Glenn, Watkins, Henderson, etc....yet left the primary issue on Offense without a feasible contingency plan going into this season...I gave them a pass (no pun intended) last season b/c Kolb sh*t the bed and their plan was to have him start and let EJ grow...but they knew going into this year that they needed more from the QB situation, given how much they've done to put an otherwise playoff caliber team together...

It is difficult for me to comprehend how the BILLS' Front Office has done so well in so many other aspects of their team, yet has woefully understated the significance of the QB play by allowing their entire armada to be anchored to EJ in a suicide mission of either Sink or Swim...in the Pacific...in a hurricane...boggles my mind really...

^^^Essentially, this....especially the last line...sometimes, we spend so much time being miserable and frustrated by the lack of effectiveness and winning by the Buffalo BILLS that we take out those frustrations on each other, sort of like the two brothers battling in the backseat of a very long car ride...to nowhere...but eventually drives off a cliff....and you die...after realizing your parents aren't your parents...and the Matrix is real....sort of like that.

This is probably a "chicken and egg" argument, but I think the greater issue is EJ...IMHO, I've seen more improvement in the Rookie Offensive Linemen than EJ during this Pre Season...does he "look" better than his first start last year? Meh...maybe a little, but nowhere near where he needs to be, IMO...he needed to be decisive, accurate within reason, commanding, and capable of reading through his progressions....in my fan's eye, I don't see it...I see a guy who is very gifted, except in terms of football acumen...

Mallet would *have* to be better than Lewis...

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like Marrone...he still has to prove he can put this team together as a winner, but thus far with what evidence I have from the games and one + season of work, I like him...and I really hope he is successful with the BILLS as shown by Playoff berths, wins and a Super Bowl at some point in the near future...in my mind, so far he deserves a vote of confidence. No Coach is perfect, mistakes are made but in the end, it's about getting it done in the W-L column and he has yet to show that, but I'm willing to give him the next 2 seasons before I start feeling as though he's not the right guy for the job, barring an abysmal blow up, i.e. 3-13 record this year...anyways, I like Marrone and do actually have confidence he'll find a way to put this whole team together, including the other Coaches and Coordinators, to put a winning team on the field...time will tell

Putting Hoyer in for this entire year, IMHO, is the right thing for the Browns and for JFF if he truly is motivated to be a starting great QB in the NFL, that is not to say I'm sold on the fact that no matter how much work he puts in he will be able to accomplish that feat but it's a start (or lack thereof)...but in no way, shape or form by anything I've seen watching the Browns two Pre Season games and more importantly what JFF has done off the field since being Drafted has shown me that he is ready, both psychologically and in a football capacity, to take the reigns for the QB position on an NFL team, regardless of whether or not that team has been historically good or bad...IF the Browns believe in the long-term viability of JFF as their Franchise QB AND they want their fans to continue to buy-in to what they're selling as hope for the future and be somewhat competitive this year, Hoyer is the QB for the whole season, no matter how bad it gets....JFF needs to be humbled and prove to the team and the Coaches he has no other passion other than to be the Franchise QB for the Cleveland Browns before he gets the chance to live such a dream...

I'd say that Henderson starting at RT, if in fact that happens, is a really good sign for the BILLS long-term future of the Offensive line as Glenn is still pretty young as well and just hope his injury issues are behind him, for the team and for himself. The fact that Marrone thinks so highly of Henderson is enough for me...as for CK, if he is so accustomed to playing the left side, since the BILLS signed Williams to a contract, let CK move to LG with a Vet in front of him and give him time to learn the Guard position and adjust to the NFL pace of Defenses...Richardson has demonstrated some good and some not-so good tendencies thus far, let him go to RG and learn behind Pears, then you have a two Rooks with high-ceilings along with youth at your two OT positions and Urbik backs up Wood at Center...that provides for some depth, Veteran leadership on the line and yet not allowing the line to get "too" old or be forced to play before the younger guys are ready....seems to make sense to me...but hey, what the hell do I know?

Regarding the Manziel "bird" situation from last night, posted this in another thread but thought it to be appropriate in this one as well: It really is a mark of immaturity...to be a leader, sometimes you have to rise above the fray and know your worth to those who follow you.

It really is a mark of immaturity...to be a leader, sometimes you have to rise above the fray and know your worth to those who follow you.

And you may very well be right, but I disagree about Urbik. Given Richardson and CK, I really don't think Urbik makes it to the starting line, although you did say "opening day" so I suppose asking Richardson to push for a RG starting job for week 1 might be a bit steep, but I really don't think Urbik starts long into the season, assuming you're correct in that he does start week 1...I just think the BILLS coaches believe if you've got a young player that can play, you put him in and let him develop...another reason why if Glenn can and does start week 1 as you also predict, Pears might very well also be relegated to a back up role because thus far, there is little disagreement between coaches, media, and casual observers alike that Henderson has been solid to, at times, impressive...and if Marrone is true to his word, you don't sit a guy that has been "impressive" and young, you get him in there to make him better....however, only time will tell...either way, it's the first time in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time the BILLS have had this problem, choosing great talent to put on their line...

Btw, I posted that statement in a bit of a hurry, so thank you for not crucifying me for my English error when I used "do" instead of "due"...gracious of you and appreciate that you took the overture of the spirit of the post and not the letter of it!

@Cleveland, the Browns franchise is one of the few that actually has my sympathy / empathy...your town is loyal and loves football...Browns' owner has issues, but man are they do for a good team, much like Buffalo...so, while I don't want them to succeed against the BILLS, in general I do hope for your sake and so many fans like you that they can turn it around and become a good, competitive football team...best of luck (unless and until they play the BILLS)

I cannot say that I was for or against getting Alex Smith when KC did...but to be fair Alex Smith did not just begin to shine in KC, he did however, just begin to shine when Harbaugh took over the 49ers a few years before that...Alex Smith, under Harbaugh's coaching and game plan, was asked to be efficient and accurate but not a world-beater, ala Favre, Manning, Brady, etc...he was given a strong running game and 1st class Defense and then told to make timely throws, which is what he did...he didn't pass for 4500 yards and 30 TDs, but he did have some of the fewest INTs in the game once Harbaugh arrived...Harbaugh and his style and Offense reinvented Alex Smith for what he is/was: a good, efficient QB that manages the game but is not asked to carry the Offense on his shoulders, and KC already had all the talent for a great Running game and good to great Defense, sound familiar??

As a BILLS fan, let's hope that is not *entirely* the case as this was a concern for EJ coming out of FSU, with the coaches believing they could course correct some of his mechanical and mental deficits...which, this next Pre Season game will be able to show if he continues to take that next step forward. Carolina game was marked improvement over the HOF game, and now I hope the Steelers game is the next step in EJ's evolution into a really good QB for the BILLS, for many years to come...

Yeah, that was a head-scratcher....

To your very first sentence: that is exactly my point. The BILLS, and by extension us as fans, have no idea how good or bad EJ will be...I won't rehash everything I said and only politely ask you to re-read my post as apparently we are on the same page, but for some reason I get the feeling you think we have counter arguments about how to handle the QB situation. Maybe we do and I've misunderstood your statements...either way, give EJ this season to prove he's the QB of the future or go get the one that will be next Off Season via trade, Draft, FA, etc....JMO

You think that's bad, man you should listen to the local Utica sports talk radio...it...is...painfully horrendous! Terrible, thankfully through most of the day at least there's ESPN talk radio, which while not perfect, is a significant upgrade over what goes on from 3 - 5 p.m., just terrible.

+1....boom!

To me the issue is this: the current roster is primed to make a run at the playoffs at nearly every position with just the QB, not diminishing it's weight or value just that it is a singular position, being the real question as to capability and / or promise of future production. So, by *not* scrapping the EJ project after this year, IF he doesn't produce as we all hope he will, then you've got Kyle Williams and Super Mario on the back end of their careers, CJ either at the end of it or traded, walked to another team, FJax who is in the twilight of his career and then a number of others just hitting their stride and still no ostensible value at QB...I can't argue against patience when its patience that ultimately wins the long-term battle BUT, this Franchise is ripe for the plucking as we speak...will they do it? I have no clue...will all other pieces perform as expected this year? I can't say....but what I *DO* know for myself, IMHO, is that based on all other variables, the QB position will almost entirely determine how the BILLS finish this year and probably next year as well...DW is doing a fine job of getting a good, healthy mix of Vets and quality young talent, I would hate to see 2 years of that wasted b/c in the age of productive young QBs, it was determined one project QB needed 3 years to determine if he IS in fact the answer...I'm not advocating for giving up on EJ yet or even at the end of this year, but what I am saying is that the BILLS NEED to know whether EJ is the answer or whether he remains the question. Because for at least *this* year, EJ is most definitely the question.

All fair points, and none that I can truly disagree with...I suppose I see the author's article as a tool to use as one additional aspect of evaluating the QB position, in this case EJ, but not the end-all be-all determination of how or if EJ will or will not succeed for the BILLS...but, can't disagree with your statements at whatsoever..

Your lips to God's ears...