BigBuff423

The last statement, is the most important....lost in all of this discussion, is the life of a young woman or women....if she or they contrived the "rape" allegation, there should a false reporting criminal charge against her / them, but that also generally speaks to a deeper problem...and much, much more often than not (and I can't speak for Florida, but I can for NY) even when a woman recants her statement, there is usually some form or level of truth to it...and rape, again by NY standards, can be a variety of things...it doesn't just have to be force, there are a number of other qualifiers that substantiate the act of rape....sad, in different ways and for different reasons depending on the veracity of these statements....

I like Holmgren as a Coach and think he's was great at his trade and proved he could win with two very different types of teams, Packers and Seahawks, but his reasoning is a bit antiquated in the contemporary NFL and that may have been why he struggled in Cleveland to find that "Franchise QB".....as I said earlier in the thread, I'm all in on Manuel THIS year like Whaley, Marrone and Hackett...BUT, and this is a huge A*S, if Manuel struggles to demonstrate convincingly in any manner, i.e. injury issues or poor play, next year it is a Franchise QB or bust type of Draft...the reason being this team is primed to make a good run at the playoffs and with this year's Draft, I believe the BILLS will be in good position to begin to really push for being a team to be reckoned with...and QB is the final piece of that puzzle...Manuel either puts up or shuts up THIS year...will he do it?? I have no freakin' clue, and that's what's frustrating...don't know if I should be excited for what Manuel will do this next year or hold my breath that the BILLS' Offense will be miserable with him at the helm and the BILLS be on the clock for a QB....if not Manuel, next year they should do everything in their power to get that Face of the Franchise QB and then hunker down and ride it out....

It's a stretch...but, I suppose a fair statement

^^^This....might be one of the least insightful and most errant posts I've seen in a long time....SJ and FredEx have been two consistent producers on a team that has failed and shown ineptitude at nearly every turn over the last five or six years. Now, with SJ, I can understand the argument to trade him due to some character flags and how the new regime is moving toward bigger WRs with new talent at the position...but Freddie has been the backbone of the running game for six years and watching him last season, there is no reason not to see just how productive he was....I believe, as others have stated, the BILLS will and need to Draft a RB this year to bring additional depth and youth to the position, but saying he should leave with a "Thank you for your service" and to insinuate he's been part of the losing problem is sheer lunacy in my mind....

FredEx is the kind of man you WANT on your team...he works hard, humble but passionate, celebrates with his teammates and takes losses with his teammates, is an asset to the community, produces on the field and isn't a distraction off the field, adds character and leadership to your locker room....all in all, FJax is the consummate professional and all around great guy....I remember some of the disucussions on this board when he was in NFL Europe and a few were championing the guy to come to the BILLS full-time...I had no clue back then and wasn't paying attention, wish I had...for all the things that Levy did to suck at a GM (God Bless him for being an awesome coach but woof...GM, no thanks) he made the right move in bringing Freddy to the BILLS....if I'm wrong on that fact, I apologize, honestly, doing this quickly but as I remember it was Levy at the helm when FredEx made his cross the ocean journey and stayed in B-LO....

First off, Congrats! Second, not a bad way to start a celebratory time with the guys....intentional or not, you and your buds get credit for good planning! I think since we're all anxious about the Draft, virtually any amount of time seems like an eternity...the only concern or issue I have is what it does to the Rookie timetable after the Draft....of course I'd like the Draft to be sooner, like it was, but in the grand scheme of things two weeks doesn't make much difference....as for the NFL planning, it does create something of an "event" in each month from January playoffs, to February Super Bowl, to March FA period beginning, to April Pre-Draft workouts and discussion in addition to the release of the schedule and then May is the Draft, OTAs and voluntary workouts in June and then Training Camp in July and the season starts....so, it's smart in some ways, but the Rookie learning curve is already steep, why not give them an extra 2 weeks to meet their new coaches, see the facilities, and get acclimated to their new surroundings....

well done....seriously, very few on this forum take the time to own something like this....well done

Ebron, Barr, any QB....other than that, I think the BILLS will make a great choice based on value of pick...that said, I think there's a 70-75% chance they trade down and at that point, it really could be anybody they think has the value at whatever spot they land...i said it in a different post, but I would NOT be surprised to see St. Louis pick Watkins at #2 and then trade up to #9 (BILLS) from #13 to get their OT....but hey, who the hell knows...

Beat me to it...

^^^^Case in point....we shall agree to disagree....but a new owner, does not mean a better one...

Re: this floated trade idea, Chris Johnson trade to Buffalo rumor, and the Pre-Draft visits of RBs plus Whaley saying their in the market for a power RB....how it relates to Spiller, where there's smoke, there's fire... Trade during the Draft? Maybe? Although, SJ is a more likely Draft day trade target...Carolina? Eagles? Texans? just a thought...

I agree with you...but let me say this, RW was an incredible owner on so many levels and yet, he was routinely flamed on this board for being "cheap" and a "has been" owner...yet, his foresight in the current CBA gets pushed under the carpert and despite the many laymen's opinions of the current state of the BILLS, he did a lot to help insure the BILLS stay in WNY and yet, he is still ridiculed in this forum....so, while I would support any owner who keeps the BILLS in Buffalo / WNY, there should be some qualification with that statement, that I do NOT want to listen to more belly-aching about how bad the new owner is / might be if he / she makes decisions contrary to what the majority of the board believes *should* happen...I would just be happy for them to stay in Buffalo and hope they keep the current hierarchy and build a consistent winner.....

Regarding the OP's information and the sad truth of what popular perception is of the Buffalo BILLS outside of true fans, I wouldn't expect much else - as many others have stated. In general, fans tend to be that hyper-excited 9 year old who thinks his hero, QB of the Century, is the best ever and can *crush everyone else...but doesn't pay attention to the deficiencies of his own team or just how much parity exists in the current NFL....people all too often are like sheep, the media speaks they listen and frequently herd as expected....that said, Buffalo will alter national perception when they do what the Seahawks have done and elevated themselves from obscurity to relevance through winning....in fact, not IF but WHEN, the BILLS make their next trip to the Super Bowl you can bet every cent you've got on the media and therefore many fans, dragging out the 4 Super Bowl losses and everyone jumping on board about how history will repeat itself...want to change an outside perception? Change the culture... To the secondary discussion regarding NFL Network and its analysts and discussion surrounding Buffalo....last year before the Draft, Mayock appeared on WGR with John Murphy and basically said, EJ is a project but he has the biggest upside of any of the QBs in the Draft and if you're going to take a project (as they all were determined to be) you take the one who can develop into your Franchise QB and then went on to say Buffalo had some good talent and could be poised to surprise some people...all the other NFL Network guys were pissing on the BILLS and smiling....this year is no different. Much like KOK, I hold the analysts to a different standard. Preparation, information, and objective analysis is what is required.....mention the problems with the BILLS, i.e. EJ's questionable future, the lack of good O line play and the abysmal Defense against the Run...but talk about Spikes, talk about Mike Williams trade, talk about Corey Graham and Dixon who've been brought in for good depth and STs play...talk about EJ spending an entire off season healthy and developing as a second year QB...talk about Pepper Johnson and Pagac and Schwartz to help against the Run....talk about Kiko eliminating one area of need now that he's played so well and runner-up DROY...talk about how they improved in winning games in their Division unlike any other year in quite some time...talk about the opportunities as much as you talk about the failures and talk about what advantage Buffalo carries with them THIS year with a coaching staff largely intact and the same Offensive system for a young QB, another year for Hackett as he is no longer a green horn, talk about how Hughes was pulled from the flames of wreckage only to be a pivotal player on the Defense last year....talk about it all....the good, the bad, and yes, the ugly...but then end with a balanced opinion of all things considered.....

Now, why would you need to end your point by saying police "covering their big fat asses"? There are many times police question or detain someone temporarily for questioning just to determine what is exactly taking place only to release that individual and say, "Have a nice day"....doesn't mean there was anything nefarious in mind by the officer or law enforcement official, just means they're doing their job by insuring everyone's safety or determining what is at hand...if nothing, there ya go..if something, let's find out what that might be....but in your comment I detect some latent hostility toward members of law enforcement....just a thought

And that's fine, I'm not advocating for taking OT...I'm not against it either....but I am definitely against taking a TE in the 1st round and certainly in the top 10....and it's cool if we don't see things similarly, but Julius Thomas and Jordan Cameron were recent Draftees and Eifert was last year, and didn't do so well....about as expected for a Rookie, but that's kind of my point...otherwise, TEs just don't make that boom impact in their Rookie year, generally and even the extremely gifted TEs, ala Vernon Davis, take time and the right situation to truly flourish...but all in all....I've come to the point that last couple years, for the first time in a long time, I trust Whaley et. al. to know how to handle the Draft, and that's despite the question mark remaining re: EJ's development...so if they think Ebron or any other TE is worth a 1st round pick, then so be it...once that uniform is on, I'll root and rally for that player like they were my own kid....but can it freakin' be May 8th already???!!!

See my statements above...and to be clear, I said "competitive major football conference"...I didn't say "the best", which of course would be the SEC

And this is the same garbage ACC you're talking about that just had a player at EJ's same position, from his alma mater win the Heisman Trophy?? Is it possible, just possible, that you're not exactly being well-balanced in your perspective? ACC is a BCS Conference and Winston just won the Heisman from Florida State...I don't think I should really have to say anything more to validate the existence and competition of the ACC and how that would be retroactively applicable to EJ considering it was just one year prior...so I won't....if you honestly take issue with the ACC, then there's not much myself or anyone else can say to have a good-hearted, well-informed debate...you don't like EJ as the BILLS QB, all fine and good, but to question what football conference he came from, makes very little sense to me...check that, it makes NO sense to me...

Fair enough, and that's good with me. But Witten, Gates, Julius Thomas, Jordan Cameron....can't all be wrong, right? Davis took years and a new HC to become what he is today and the others I just mentioned were 3rd or 4th rounders....if you would like, take a look at recent 1st round TEs and compare to what they put out versus those Drafted later.. Eifert and Pettigrew come to mind

But Graham was a 3rd round pick and took some time to become "Graham" and Vernon Davis was almost left for dead until Harbaugh came along...so, while I understand everyone wants that TE that comes out and produces Graham like numbers, I think the BILLS *best* comparison to getting a good / great TE that can be replicated in AFCE is Gronk, who was a 2nd round TE and is NOT the Graham type TE. Gronk is big, nasty, has great hands, can block well, and fast *enough* but not elite type speed. The hard part will be if Ebron goes to a team like Falcons or Texans that play indoors or generally fair weather and fans see Ebron with good stats and say, "See!! That's what we wanted!"...but not taking into consideration the Offensive scheme, the Division, or the weather variables...Chandler does well in Buffalo because he's the "type" of TE the BILLS want....Niklas is more the Gronk type than Ebron....and I think if versatility is the buzz word for the BILLS, than a blocking AND pass-catching TE is what you're after...if you wanted to go ASJ, in the 2nd, ok....don't love it, don't hate it...but taking a TE at 9th overall or at all in the 1st unless you're taking late 20s or 30s, I just don't think the value is there....

And the thing is, if we're talking Ebron in the 3rd round, all that is fine and good, but at 9th overall or even in the 1st round at all, just doesn't make sense, value-wise, in my mind...the BILLS are NOT the Saints, in terms of stadium, division, or team composition so taking a guy that high, you want to be able to put on the Roster from Day 1 and have him start and make a difference Day 1...TEs have a learning curve, virtually ALLLL of them do and even the ones who had a good first year, which are EXTREMELY rare, don't make an impact as much....if BILLS were to Draft Ebron even in the 2nd round, while I wouldn't be "happy" about it, unless they trade down in the 1st and get another 2nd, I would at least slowly warm to the idea...but the BILLS run a very different offense, in a very different division, in often time inclement weather...and if it were me Drafting a guy at 9th overall or in the 1st round at all, I don't want a guy who has to be "coached up" to do the fundamentals, i.e. catching the ball, well...I want a guy who I know has the ability to play as expected right from opening day....JMO

To be fair though, Dalton is a pretty nice consolation prize and he can certainly develop / mature to the point where he COULD carry a team on his shoulders. Dalton is no slouch, he's just not Manning/Brady/Rogers....to me at least. Keep in mind, AJ Green didn't magically cause the ball to appear in his hands - he had to have a QB throwing him the ball and doing it well enough.

I respectfully disagree, and that's cool...I just believe that given a new team for DJax and a new HC for Washington, it dictates diplomacy and setting aside all rumors and / or perceptions of living for "self" first and showing up at workouts demonstrates team cohesion and comraderie...but that is definitely a personal opinion or position, so we can amicably agree to disagree about its signficance. All good....btw, who gives a bull's sh*t about Philly....let's get Buffalo on the field and get some work in!! Hells to the yeah! Bring on 2014!

Got it...and in general, I would agree except that the BILLS are now in a position to Draft BPA, and if that were Robinson (not happening) or Matthews (also unlikely depending on where they Draft), then I still don't think Marrone would move Glenn, but instead would have an extremely talent RT....but thanks for an appropriate response and not overreacting to some good discussion....

The issue for me is, I just don't know....he is a relatively unknown quality for the BILLS. EJ is physically gifted, no doubt...he had good success at a very good school in football in a competitive major conference....he has great size for a QB....his arm strength is definitely NFL caliber....he seems to carry himself well....however, and this is big when it comes to Face of the Franchise QBs, he has difficulty staying healthy SO FAR, which is why I really don't know....I am very willing to give him 2014 as a year to prove, 1. He can stay healthy for 13-14 games, 2. He has learned from his Rookie season, avoiding potential injury through football smarts and developing as a QB in the NFL. I am willing to be patient with him for THIS year. But, and it's a huge a*s, if he either can't stay healthy - because a Franchise QB is a healthy QB (generally speaking), or if he doesn't show he has developed appropriately to the point of absolute, bed-rock confidence in his ability to QB this team, then the BILLS MUST, I say MUST, go ALLLLLLL in on a QB in next year's Draft. I just believe that the BILLS have established, and still are establishing, a wide and deep pool of talent and able playmakers on this team and with the QB being almost the last piece in place, they MUST solve that issue IF, and it's a big IF, EJ is not that Face of the Franchise QB....so, don't know yet, but either way, IMO, we will definitely know this time next year one way or the other.

You were doing fine until you suggested Glenn to move to the RT position...first, Marrone won't do that...second, why would anyone want to? I'm not being mean here, but Glenn has emerged as a really good, and maybe becomes an elite, LT who HAS ACTUALLY played in the NFL for a couple years...why move him to RT...taking the Rookie and moving HIM to RT makes the most sense, and its what I believe will be done...JMO