OldTimer1960
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Posts posted by OldTimer1960
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Awesome job Gunner!
Do you see the diabetes or concerns about effort/coachability as the reason AD Mitchell isn’t in round 1?
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14 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:
Part of the appeal of Odunze is the rookie contract with a fifth-year option. The price folks are throwing out there to acquire him is plausibly accurate. It's a little rich for my taste. I'd rather hold onto 60 since we were Goodelled out of a 3rd rounder. A trade for the best established WR includes a hefty contract, or the need for one to retain the fella. So I wouldn't pay as much as I would for Odunze, even if you argue the established WR is a known commodity and Odunze involves some risk.
Agree, but what I was trying to say even without regard to salary cap ramifications is: can you find any proven WR in the league that you would pay two firsts and two seconds for? I don’t think there is any 1 receiver that turns this roster into a Super Bowl winner if you trade all of those picks away that could otherwise be used to help the remainder of the team.
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1 hour ago, TheBeaneBandit said:
Yes but there are simply not any prospects to help raise this D to that level in this draft. Besides maybe a rotational d lineman and a safety to groom this is the year to hit offense hard. Next year they can double team the defense with free agents and the draft.
I am aligned with that, I just don’t think it’s smart to trade next year’s 1 to move up this year. I am fine if they pick almost all offense if those are better players in each round than any defenders available there.
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31 minutes ago, Gregg said:
This is true but the winner has arguably the greatest TE to ever play the game and a true game changer for Mahomes to rely on. With Diggs in Houston the Bills need a #1 WR to help take the pressure of Kincaid and give Allen another weapon to work with.
If you could trade for any receiver in the league now, would you trade what it takes to get Odunze or higher?
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30 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:
You’re right! We should stick with what has worked. I’m all on board for staying at 28 and drafting the best defensive player available. Our defense is what carries us every year, especially in the playoffs vs the Chiefs!
I understand the sarcasm, but it isn’t rational to say “they had a good defense and fell just short, so defense doesn’t matter “. I would note that the two Super Bowl teams had outstanding defenses and the winner didn’t exactly have the best group of receivers.
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37 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:
were worried that the strategy would then be winning with the offense?
we have the #2 QB in the nfl, one whos never had a fully dynamic offense around him like weve seen Mahomes have some years (not this year)
its 2024 where the NFL as a whole is driven by offense
adding a nasty WR to Josh is not 1 + 1 = 2
theres a synergy where the goal, if trading up, is 1 + 1 = 10
offense is at a rules advantage versus the defense league wide. this is the strategy we SHOULD be feeding into. not all the resources should go to the offense, but your top resources should
I’m talking about not trading two 1st plus for 1 WR. I don’t disagree that receivers have become more important, but I still don’t agree that defense doesn’t matter - especially pass rush and DBs
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1 hour ago, warrior9 said:
You can love a 6'1 170 pound WR. BUT the bolded is ABSOLUTELY and UTTERLY false. That is A HORRIFIC take.
Zay Flowers ran a 4.42 and is 4 inches shorter than Worthy and weighs 10 pounds more. HOLLY WOOD BROWN?!?!?!?!?!?! REALLY?
Sure Tyreek has been great but so has: Mike Evans, Davante Adams, JJ, CeeDee Lamb, AJ Brown, Aiyuk, Chris Godwin, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Kupp, Keenan Allen, Puka, Deebo, Cooper, and the list goes on.
only ONE has ran under a 4.4....
Your little fast guys are FAR out numbered. Be honest, what did you think of Quentin Johnstone coming out of TCU last year? Assume you loved him?
And Hill is 20lbs heavier than Worthy and 2 inches shorter.
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20 minutes ago, BillsVet said:
Playing it safe most years is partly why they've ended their season with a Divisional Round loss three years running. Yet, the one time this regime went big on draft in 2018 they landed Josh. Credit to McBeane for being bold and positioning themselves to move up for JA. You can't do that every year, but there's a time and a place for it, notably QB and now WR. Fortune favors the bold.
The NFL remains an offensive-driven league and I'm not sure how people keep missing this. You don't get as far with a pedestrian or even decent offense and a regular season excellent defense in the playoffs. The strategy hasn't worked in years.
Other thing is to what's happening in the background. No, this isn't Whaley and Brandon using future picks they might never have had after RW passed away which has been pointed to in this thread. But it probably isn't lost on McBeane that they are selling PSL's, a new stadium is going in, and they need to win. I don't think Terry is as hands-on with the Bills, but that's a factor, even if distant. McBeane should take a calculated risk, if they deem the player worth it, because Josh deserves more than what is on the roster now.Disagree - they have been good enough to win, they just didn’t. It is very hard to win 3-4 playoff games in a row and sometimes it’s very little things that are the difference.
Even if you’re right, how are they going to win with 1 hotshot WR and a crumbling D? I just don’t think 1 WR is going to make that difference and the cost to trade for one will hamstring any hope to address other holes.
Further, if all it took was a great WR, then Miami would be SB champ and SF would have beaten KC last year.
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39 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:
This year and next. They will have cap space to make some moves for 2025 though.
But not all that much cap space.
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58 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:
I agree. This is how I see it playing out. We get into the top 9 for a top 3 WR, but the price will be steeper than most here expect. This team will have to win with offense this season and they need a stud WR for the offense to do that. The fact that the team is at the forefront of PSL sales and needs to keep the fan base stoked adds pressure from the top. 2025 draft capital will be sacrificed.
For several years if they trade future picks.
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35 minutes ago, BeastMode54 said:
So there seems to be a lot of smoke regarding Worthy. I'm not totally opposed to it, but have flashbacks of Goodwin and/or Graham. My question is, if Worthy ran a 4.4 40 and not the fastest ever, would he still be regarded as a 1st round wr?
I think Worthy’s floor is as a dangerous deep threat and someone who you can scheme touches for. I don’t know that he is ever going to be a high volume receiver. His ceiling is moderately high constrained mostly by his size and durability concerns.
At one time I was against Worthy in the first, but I think he is as good as the other receivers likely to be there around 28.
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9 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:
If Beane believes Worthy or BTJ is their guy, I’m fine with giving up 128, another late rounder and a 2025 2ndI would not give up that much for the 165lb Worthy and I guess OK for Thomas Jr, but none of these guys are sure things.
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28 minutes ago, Turk71 said:
Franklin is the guy.
He's a really good route runner, clever and deceptive with his breaks. He's a smart football player with great instincts who excels in the open field and on extended, broken plays. Just turned 21 and his frame is still thin, but he beat press man coverage consistently at an elite yprr rate, best in the class I believe. His top end speed is a marvel to witness.
None of the guys outside of the top 3 have consistently produced on the field like Franklin has, and none of them match his combined metrics in multiple yprr categories.
https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-how-2024-nfl-drafts-wide-receiver-class-stacks-up-using-key-stable-metrics He was also a top 3 recruit coming out of high school in '21, ranked higher than Nabers, Odunze, Harrison, Thomas, Mitchell, Legette, Worthy, McConkey, etc when they were recruited.
This guy is a really good, smart football player with instincts and top end speed you can't teach.
I think he can contribute immediately and I would definitely take him over McConkey or Legette.
I’m getting the feeling that Franklin could be around near pick 60. Daniel Jeremiah seems to have some connections to teams and in his last top 150 he has Moved Franklin way down to 76. I know that doesn’t make him right, but he had him a lot higher before - it seems like he got some intel that teams were less enamored with him.
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2 hours ago, HappyDays said:
I would like one of the McConkey fans to tell me, who is the comp player for his ceiling? Legette I can say it's AJ Brown. McConkey I can't think of anyone with his skill set that became a truly elite WR. Maybe Stefon Diggs but if that's the ceiling it's not good enough. We need someone that has the potential to dominate in the playoffs.
That’s what they need, but I don’t see a prospects that is in reasonable trade range that is a guaranteed playoff dominator.
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5 hours ago, BabyBills said:
Unless we run exclusively 12-personnel, we need to prioritize a WR who can line up on the LOS and beat press coverage. Unfortunately, I don't think McConkey or Legette are it. If we want a McConkey-type (crisp route runner who can separate), I'm leaning toward Ricky Pearsall. His win-rate vs. press coverage appears to be much better than that of McConkey, though still average. That, and his presence would give us 3 WRs who could play each of the WR positions, even if none can play the X exceptionally well.
Javon Baker seems to be great against press, so he too could be the X. I think he could be gone before we pick in round 2 though, and I'm not sure if he has the absolute talent to justify a round 1 selection.
I think Baker will very likely be available at 60.
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I guessed stay at 28 because it isn’t clear who they like. Is it BTJ? Is it Legette? Mitchell? Worthy? McConkey? .???
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1 hour ago, Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD said:
I like Troy Franklin better than Legette or McConkey.
Franklin can be the true deep threat that we've lacked since John Brown left.
McConkey ran a slightly faster 40 than Franklin did. I like McConkey much better than Franklin. I agree, though, that Bills really appear interested in Franklin. I just think Franklin would be a suboptimal pick at 28.
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39 minutes ago, Brandon said:
Agreed, but I would also add Pearsall to that group.
I don’t think Franklin or Pearsall are really in play in round 1, but heck we don’t really know what the teams think about these prospects.
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2 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:
I don't think that is a they will give up both 36 and 40 but just a they have the ammunition to get there because one of the top tackles might not be there at 36. I think this is correct, those last 10 picks of the first round are going to be filled with OT/OG selections imo.
To make it worth the Bills while they might overpay by giving up either 67 or 78 but the Bills would probably have to give back 144 which I think both teams would be willing to do because its only a 4 point difference.
That would leave Buffalo with
36
60
78
128
133
160
163
200
204
248
I'd expect Buffalo then to move around the board again with all of those picks to get another guy they want or two.
I kind of like that better than their current hand.
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3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
I don't think they have a shot to get a starting edge this year in the draft unless one of the top 3 and maybe Chop falls in round 1. My three round 2 grades are all 3-4 OLBs.
I wouldn't force it. If I have to live with a timeshare of a washed Von and AJE for a year then so be it. You can't make someone the answer just by overdrafting them.
I agree completely. They need reinforcements in a lot of areas for this year and next, find the best players they can at each pick with obvious preference for need, but with needs at WR, DE, CB, DT (Oliver backup and to replace Daquan Jones in 25) and S.
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4 hours ago, H2o said:
Updated listing. Notice that Troy Franklin and Tez Walker are the only two WR's with 3 interactions.
I don’t want Walker at all before the 4th and not crazy about Franklin, either. FWIW, Daniel Jeremiah’s final rankings has Franklin 76th.
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2 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:
I have a hard time coming to terms with the on-paper downgrade at WR from last year that we would have with 2 second tier rookies penciled in for large roles. It would signify to me a rebuild/reset year. Generally the draft had been considered replenishment for the future - not filling immediate needs.
The idea of a second tier WR being the Diggs replacement isn't right. Either a big 3 as Diggs replacement with a FA WR (OBJ/M Thomas) or a trade for a vet WR. I think J Jeff/Aiyuk/Higgins are too expensive ($ + draft capital) but there are others - D Metcalf/C Godwin/DHop/DJ Moore.
I think this is a mini-rebuild - of course they will not say that publicly.
I want a Wr in the first or early 2nd too, but to be fair, Diggs wasn’t even considered a 2nd or 3rd tier WR in his draft. Again, not advocating to wait and certainly not to wait for WR because of Marshawn Kneeland.
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5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:
This is maybe the worst and least informed mock draft I can remember to have ever read in any year. I feel like this guy stole time from my life I can't get back.
There apparently is a lot of buzz on Kneeland being a borderline late 1st early 2nd player among league guys. I don’t see it - wouldn’t even use pick 60 on him. It’s pure projection of his size and athleticism, apparently, because he didn’t exactly dominate the MAC.
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27 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:
Final Offer:28, 128, 160, 2025 1st, 2nd, 2nd
For 4 & 66
I would hate this trade. 2 1sts and 2 2nds for one non-QB? No thank you.
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Live 2024 NFL Draft thread - Round 1 (Do NOT tip the Bills pick)
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
People should watch a bit of him. Phenomenal speed and quickness, but raw. He did create a lot of disruption against some top level opponents including Ohio State and Michigan. There is some risk with him, but he is an exceptional athlete for a DE.