BADOLBILZ

The modern NFL is a better fit for Flutie(and most QB's) but the main difference between late career Flutie and today's "short" QB's is that he didn't have the throwing arm that guys like Wilson or Murray or even early-Bills Tyrod had. If you can't throw a deep out consistently from the pocket you will almost inevitably be forced to. It happened to Flutie then and it would have happened again now. And his style of scrambling would actually not work as well with todays defenders. They are faster. Flutie was super quick and elusive but he wasn't going to be breaking off 40 yard runs like Josh Allen or Tyrod did in the modern game. Those guys can eat up ground with real speed and the threat of the deep ball stretched defenses to allow them the space. Flutie would still be a dynamic scrambler behind the LOS but he'd have been playing in a pinball machine at the next level against LB's and DB's that were already squatting on his short throws.

Barring unforeseen injury to Allen, there is no excuse for McBeane not getting to 10 wins this season. They exposed us to A LOT of bad football(particularly on offense) the past two seasons to get to this point.........and they have had virtually no free agents for two offseasons and spent TONS of Pegula-Bucks in FA and had high draft picks and have about as easy of a schedule as you could ask for. Whether 10 wins gets you into the playoffs in the AFC is another matter.

I've never said Whaley did a good job as Bills GM.........I felt he should be fired at the end of the 2016 season...........claiming I said he did a good job is just you projecting because I refuse to be critical of everything he did after-the-fact like you feel should be the case. Ignorant fans want simple answers.........the nuance is lost on them because they don't understand or care about the details. It's that way with Beane..........people like you are all-in right now........ he does no wrong.......the same way you were with Whaley early on.........but it's been a mixture of good, bad and "meh"........and the net result is 15-17 so far........same as Whaley's last two years. Meh.

These are actually steps 1 & 2 for a lot of our regulars. Straight from never-heard-of-em' to there.

This sounds like a shot at Beane's approach to free agency.

No they have the same job responsibility........Star just wasn't good last season. Phillips is a tackling machine because he's pretty good at getting off blocks to make plays. Star is good at getting blocked and staying blocked.

Numbers.....slanted as "statistics"...... are fake news to the ignorant. This should be a popular thread with our geriatric crowd.

We had this discussion in the John "Warrow" thread............Lotulelei had a very poor season last year...........he just looked sluggish, didn't impact OL and couldn't make a play to save his life..........meanwhile Harrison Phillips, while no world beater, had twice as many tackles in about 8% less snaps. Wax all you want about DT1T being about tying up blockers but it's NOT the nose tackle position. The DT1T in McDefense is in position to make some plays. It's possible that Harrison Phillips steps up and takes a lot more snaps away from Lotulelei and that Jordan Phillips gets bumped over to DT1T occasionally..............and that Star with a cap hit over $11M even gets healthy scratched in some games. This could all be moot with an injury or two but Lotulelei is the least versatile of the Bills DT options(which include Shaq and Lorax on obvious passing downs) and it's certainly NOT clear that he's their best DT1T at this point after the season he just put forward.

I wish I was A LOT more wrong about the Bills organization..........but I've been about as close to spot-on about the organization as possible. You on the other hand.......you want to excuse every new regime.........until they have one foot in the grave or are gone.......THEN you trash everything about them............you just have an ignorant outlook on the Bills(which isn't helped by your utter cluelessness regarding the rest of the NFL or college football). In retrospect........you've enjoyed NOTHING! Except the refreshments.

Yeah Flutie covered up a lot of weaknesses on the OL in pass pro...........he got Jerry Ostroski PAID even though he was pretty lousy player. The OL was blocking better leading up to that TN game but then in "Bruce Smith gets the flu" fashion the Bills two starting tackles were ruled out at the last minute for the Titans game. That would have been their toughest game of the playoffs........that Bills defense was stifling.........better than the Tampa D that took the Rams to the brink in St. Louis. People who think Rob Johnson had a bad game should check out McNair's line: 76 yards passing on 24 attempts. That Bills team could've been a Ravens/Bucs-esque SB champion that year..............or they could have been shut down completely in TN by the most basic of defense's like Flutie was at home versus NYG and Raiders. It was a fragile situation. Shame they didn't have the guts to use both QB's that year.........could have had homefield at least until Jacksonville anyway.

I think you mean "even bad QBs CAN have the occasional good game". Peterman........perhaps not. I'm not sure why people need to go to such lengths to exaggerate the level of incompetence of Bills QB's..............we all know that every one of them has sucked since Kelly(and he sucked in his last season). Johnson was a bust but he had his moments........INCLUDING leading his team to the go-ahead drive at the end on the road in the playoffs the last time the Bills were contenders 20 years ago. If Josh Allen doesn't pan out then in 5 years the same people who are excusing his rookie production will be mocking it. I call it like it is. He was a bad QB last year. He showed flashes.......but like you said bad QB's (can) have occasional good games. I've been a Josh Allen supporter since the jump but he might be bad........we don't know yet. POINT BEING, when the list is all ***** performing QB's you can choose to look for things done right. My points are absolutely valid..........Johnson had some tremendous games and great finishes.

The question was never if Tyrod was the answer it was why is that the question? The question was why weren't they drafting a QB? It's been my mantra for a decade here and thankfully McBeane became the first regime to ever go all-in on a QB on draft day. . On a year to year basis Tyrod was a player who produced offense, was a good fit in Lynn/Roman offense and protected the football. The Bills nursed three productive seasons out of Tyrod and he was far from their biggest problem. You were on the Case Keenum bandwagon when he became a FA in LA. That looked like a good take for the year he was in Minnesota. Last year he was really bad and that would have been a costly error for the Bills and may have delayed their drafting of a QB. Letting Tyrod play out the string was the better decision than long terming with Keenum. If McBeane make it to a playoff game again and lose.....get fired in subsequent years and then the Bills go on another 10 year losing streak.........people will opine for them like they do "Wade"..........and all people will remember from my takes are the things that I didn't like about them, because that is all anyone really cares to discuss. I say that I thought all of their first round picks were good values where taken and that's a "non-take" because of course every apologist thinks that's OBVIOUS right now.

Johnson's good games were spectacular. And even in some of his many lousy games he sometimes managed to rally the team back at the end. It was like they couldn't access his competitive switch but when they did he was a totally different player. For being a choker he sure had a lot of late game rallies that seemingly came from nowhere. Some wins(@TB/@KC) and some losses(@SD/Indy/ theMCM). When he needed to throw the football late in the game it was at least possible. Not always the case with DF. And that Flutie/Johnson matchup in SD was the highlight of that season. Awesome football game between 2 bad teams.

Flutie was careless with the football in a playoff game. It happened. We all expected the Bills to win that game and they moved the ball but what is the #1 job of the quarterback dave? PROTECT THE FOOTBALL I supported Rob Johnson plenty but even then I said the answer was both. I was pleased when they paid Flutie. Money spent on 2 QB's was money well spent IMO. I thought we *might* actually see the day when they would alternate them. That was a controversial opinion for some reason even though a HC in our division had done it years earlier and gotten the team to a SB. But the long term play was obviously Johnson.......the cap wasn't going allow them to keep both even if some on here didn't believe that a cap crisis was looming. I can't remember your take but there was almost UNIVERSAL denial about the seriousness of the cap crisis. I assume that's the period you are referring to. Flutie was old and as it turned out Johnson flamed out but they absolutely made the right choice keeping Johnson over Flutie. They had to see what they had in him.........he played some great games and some awful games........but a late 30's Flutie was not the future for a young team.

Stop right there. The woeful Raiders and Giants went against their style of defense against Flutie as well. ANY defense can just contain the QB and squat on short throws in the secondary..............it makes defense VERY simple. And I know that Phillips didn't want Flutie............Phillips played him all season and the Bills struggled to score points...........he didn't emphasize ST's and then quit his job over Ronnie Jones a year later.........what can I say he wasn't that smart of a HC. And Flutie did NOT play well against Arizona.............they took the Bills to OT........he just played A LOT. Watching that offense that year was brutal. But again the solution wasn't necessarily EITHER of those QB's.......if anything it was BOTH of them and that wasn't going to happen with a guy like Wade Phillips as HC.

Don't forget your helmet.

Flutie lead the Bills to a 5 turnover performance in the playoffs the season before......... including losing the game with a fumble at the goal line when they had a chance to tie it! Fumbles don't get much bigger than that. That was literally a game ender. Why people think Flutie was some playoff hero in waiting is beyond me.........that Bills team should have never lost that game in Miami.

I don't see it that way at all. The Titans could very well have played Flutie and Johnson entirely differently and gotten a worse performance from DF. The reason they were on the road in Nashville was because of two HORRENDOUS games that Flutie had at home against two bad teams.......NYG and Raiders. He was a 46% passer in those games. Those teams employed a "keep Flutie in the pocket" approach to stunningly upset the Bills on their own turf. What really stood out was that at the end of those games when Flutie needed to move the ball in the air the Bills were paralyzed. The book was out. Contrast that to how Johnson finished the game in TN. In the playoffs you are going to get defenses designed specifically to stop players..........I sincerely doubt Flutie would have been an answer because I doubt the Titans would have shot themselves in the foot over pursuing Flutie when all you had to do was make him stay in the pocket. Simple as that. In an ideal situation the HC has the power of a Don Shula and plays both Flutie and Johnson the way Shula used Woodley/Strock to get a team to a SB. But that level of power and accountability was not happening with Wade. Great DC.......had a good style of building systems around players on both sides of the ball as a HC that served him well..........but a guy with little attention to detail and therefore never going to be great enough to last more than a few seasons let alone pull off a 2 QB system.

Most controversial takes?.........absolutely. Most accurate controversial takes for 2 decades and running?........absolutely.........but the takes are just controversial because the team has been bad and certain fans don't like to hear that.........it even depresses some of those who don't keep it in perspective as entertainment. "Moving goal posts" is re-directing the argument without answering issues......................I have SPECIFICALLY and thoroughly answered so much of your nonsense in this thread that I am aware of the fact that it appears that I am arguing to your level of competence......as DC Tom wouldn't say. That is NOT moving the goal posts. That's disagreeing with you with reasons. Just another case of you using a popular "phrase/term" that doesn't accurately apply to the topic of discussion.

I was not aware of that..........maybe Royale can provide some of his patented statistical support.

If Bills talk IN ANY WAY depresses you.........seek counseling........that's a you problem............it's just entertainment.

I'm not bothering to open those links........I watched most of the Rams games in both years and Goff improved significantly as a thrower of the deep ball last year. Clearly he had worked on it. The Falcons recognized the weakness and employed a "Fitz" defense on him and that was the end of the Rams 2017 season. So it was an absolute necessity to improve in that area. He routinely under threw Watkins in 2017.......the tape don't lie. Your work in this thread has just been bad...........like 3 posts of bad stats that even you had to admit were bogus. Using dumb phrases to make it seem like McBeane's choices weren't actually choices. I literally quoted you word for word and you are telling me you have no idea what I am talking about.

1. Rams couldn't reach a deal in part because they didn't have negotiating leverage on Watkins. Watkins also wasn't thrilled about not getting the ball thrown to him. Goff struggled to throw the ball deep. So McVay played the whole season using Watkins to run Richard Sherman and Jalen Ramsey and Patrick Peterson, Josh Norman etc.. out of the play by running Watkins deep and destroying teams with wide open receivers underneath. When the playoffs came the Falcons took away the underneath and intermediate "Goff" routes. The Rams then tried to use Watkins to run routes they hadn't worked all season to beat the tight coverage and it looked like they'd never played together. Lesson learned for McVay.......you gotta' use everyone during the season even if you are going thru in-season defenses like sh*t thru a goose. But all things being equal Watkins was going to want to go somewhere that the QB could throw the ball deep. Mahomes was a perfect match. 2. They were willing to pay more to Cooks than Sammy because he has been great AND healthy. Nice option to have. One of the flaws of the "parity" encouraging system the NFL has is that teams at the back end of round 1 have a real advantage when trading for star players. Pats did it to get Cooks from New Orleans and the Rams did it the next year to get him. 3. So......you really don't understand this saying. You can't make an omelette without egg........so you gotta' break the egg. There is no other option. That's what the saying means. You CAN win in the NFL without tearing a team down. No option.........option. Get it? 4. Building on talent is not necessarily "going down the old regimes path". Are the Rams still on the Jeff Fisher path because they kept so many players? You are literally just reaching for sayings and cliches that make no sense in this context.

I know you guys don't follow the NFL............but when the Rams couldn't reach a deal with Watkins they traded their first round pick for Brandin Cooks to replace him. I get not being CLOSE followers of the NFL but for fuxake the Rams played in the Super Bowl............did you catch that game? And I don't remember anyone predicting the Rams offense was going to fall apart...........Watkins signing with KC and Cooks being traded to LA happened pretty close together.

People in the Carolina organization were the first to point out that the Bills appeared to have been using their draft board. It's not like that wasn't discussed here. You were probably in those threads then too but don't remember because you tend to create a lot of thoughtless takes.