BADOLBILZ

Yeah nobody on the Bills roster is leaving the relatively massive amounts of what they can earn on the table to play in Buffalo for incredibly less. The OBJ deal proved that there can be a big variance in offers for veteran WR talent. As he said he was being offered only $4M at some of his preferred destinations.........and the Ravens came in with $15M.

No I did not feel that way and no they did not turn the Bills into perennial contenders. They turned them from a losing team into a fringe wildcard team and gave their QB a chance as opposed to the trash they had prior. What is to say that this years additions aren't enough?? That they aren't the quality of player that John Brown or Cole Beasley were should suffice. Brown was a proven WR2 with big yardage seasons in his recent past. Beasley was a longtime consistently effective slot receiver. Deonte Harty is a journeyman type who has averaged 198 yards per season in his career and was injured most of last season. Tent Sherfield has averaged just 169 yards per season in his career. These guys are veteran flyers with very little success in their history.........not anything even remotely like Beasley and Brown who were established as 500-600 yard options who had put up an 800 yard and 1,000 yard season in their recent past before joining Buffalo. No comparison. If Harty of Sheffield turn into top 3 receiver options that will be a surprise. A lot is riding on rookie TE to become that top end SB-quality WR2 that Gabe Davis hasn't been. Does that answer your question?

It's not anger.........it's just being blunt and matter of fact. You crafting an argument around Von Miller being the only significant move they've made since last January is laughable. They've extended Knox and Oliver.....2 players they didn't HAVE to re-sign at all costs..........to the tune of $110M alone since then. And they have made a heap of mid-level moves and re-structures that probably pushes another $100M in potential future commitments. Open your eyes. Obviously everyone that is interested in Hopkins is trying to negotiate the best deal they can get and nobody is going to "break the bank" for him like I presume you believe the Bills did with Von Miller at 6yr/$120M. He is likely to get a 2-3 year deal and it likely won't be at a figure the Bills couldn't possibly make work. Your feelings about how much Beane wants Hopkins to be a Bill or how much Hopkins wants it are just feels. Since you clearly can't see anything coming why are you so committed to these feels that are betraying you? It will happen or it will not but it won't be because of your flawed rationale.

How many times is Beane going to tell you he can't make moves.........and then just keep making them.........before you realize that he's utterly full of sh!t and wants it that way? There is zero upside to telling the Bills fanbase and media that there is any way he can find more money to make moves. This dates back to the offseason after 2020 and has never changed. His mantra is always "I don't expect big moves, we don't have much cap space, yada yada". It's NOT a cap problem. Von Miller's $20M aav deal had a $5M cap hit last year. They could have and still CAN get DHop in if they want.

I would love to have Evans but I also kinda' prefer the skillset of DHop better if the mix is Diggs and Davis. And with Davis being cheap and in a walk year.........it should be. Davis is a top WR3 but he and Evans skillsets are kinda' redundant. They are deep ball guys who also get some work done in the intermediate. DHop is better than them on the short and intermediate routes and has MUCH better hands........without being a low ypc guy. If you have Evans and Davis you pretty much gotta' use Diggs for the vast majority of the short game........which is hard work. Or you gotta' take one of Davis and Evans off the field for Kincaid and hope that he doesn't play like a rookie. I am also loathe to give up draft pick compensation if it can be avoided. Hopefully the Bills going all-in yields a SB win but the difference between what Beane is doing and what Les Snead did from 2017-2021 really HAS to be that Beane uses and hits with "them picks". The Rams really kinda' bankrupted their roster trading away so many picks.........that's why they had to pull the plug moreso then because they couldn't straighten out their cap.

You forgot not addressing WR. The biggest jumps in production that they got as a team were the two years they got serious about addressing the WR position with Brown, Beasley and then Diggs. Letting the position decline has really cost them the past two regular seasons and in the playoff loss to Cinci.

I think the perspective of Bills fans from Tampa on TSW was that Mike Evans never wants to leave Tampa. Contending or otherwise. He lost for many years and then got his SB and playoff appearances in recent seasons. The same reason the Bills never traded Kyle Williams to New Orleans when they were going in two different directions despite THAT connection seeming totally obvious.

Good points. Top 4 defensive spending teams have defensive head coaches. Those teams have struggled to build offensive lines. The one single position they could have addressed to make the biggest difference this offseason was WR2. Not sure it's reasonable to expect Kincaid to be that guy in 2023, but hopefully.

No just like what I am hearing about Benford. Elam SHOULD be the starter based on pedigree........but if Benford beats him out despite Elam playing well that's a first world problem.

If White, Poyer and Hyde all somehow return to form this season, Taron stays strong and Benford ascends the way he's being talked up..........would be HUUUUGE.

Like I said.......he's averaged just a bit under 56% and played 60% of the snaps IN THE GAMES HE DIDN'T MISS ENTIRELY last season(he missed 3 entirely). He's not being unfairly judged because of injury he actually only played around 50% of the teams total defensive snaps last year. And 70% of snaps played isn't any kind of standard.......it's something someone in this thread made up as a figure they think is a gold standard. The standard of the best DT's 80%+ snaps OR outrageous production on less than 80% of snaps. The 3 DT's picked right after Ed Oliver all played OVER 80% of the snaps last season and had a whopping 300-400+ more snaps than Ed's feeble 527. Quinnen Williams is used more like Ed Oliver and only played 690 snaps last year but he put up 12 sacks and 28 QB hits to Ed's meager 2.5 sacks and 14 QB hits. Ed's something of a taint. He aint an every down, high production DT like his draft classmates Wilkins, Lawrence or Simmons........but his actual production is also pathetic compared to guys like Quinnen or Hargrave who play less than 80% but do it in a dominant fashion. But Ed is being paid second only to Aaron Donald on a per snap basis based on his career average of 570 snaps per season(which forgives his particularly low snap counts last season to an extent). Oliver gets a few more hits on the QB than Poona Ford but his sack and tackle production is very much like $2M Poona Ford in recent years. Poona also plays about mid 50% of his teams snaps but he also plays a lot more 1T or NT position where he gets less chances to shoot gaps and has more run responsibility than Ed Oliver typically does. This Oliver contract is a MASSIVE overpay based on what Oliver has shown so far. That's the bottom line. Maybe he is an instance where a player gets paid by a team anticipating a huge improvement in his play and he actually does that. He's talented so maybe. But based on what he's done it's a terrible deal.

MLB needs to get serious about changing the walls that they have at ballparks so they are more forgiving of collisions. They want he players to be more athletic but they have to make business decisions near the wall and then you have crazy anomaly's like the Dodgers stadium with that concrete lip that Judge hit. Judge has been by far the best player in the game the past month and overall since the beginning of 2022. It would be bad for baseball to lose him but if it's a turf toe or something it could be really debilitating.

I think you are referring to Juju Smith Shuster as the #2 target behind Kelce? Juju had 97 catches in 2020 and was only 26 years old in 2022 with a 1400 yard season also on his resume. That is a lot different than having a never-was journeyman like Lil' Dummy and the perennially injured and washed up flyer veteran signing Jamison Crowder in the slot. The Chiefs also had two talented young WR selected in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the previous 2 drafts in addition to their Gabe Davis production clone Marquez Valdes Scantling. It wasn't the best WR corps in the NFL but their receiving group, counting Kelce of course, was A LOT deeper and talented than that of the Bills.

Is there a team with a HC on the hot seat in 2023 with a terrible culture situation that could use a washed-up 65 year old fully-endorsed Tony Dungy protege if said hot seat coach were to find himself in a hookers/cocaine+arrest-or-social-media-video scenario? If so, it might be time for Bills Mafia to raise some funds.

Here are the extensions: Allen, Dawkins, Milano and Tre White weren't projections when extended.........they were paid for what they were at the time and had been for some time prior. More of the same was plenty to justify those deals. The success of the Diggs extension is TBD at this point........he'd still be under his old deal even this season still......as he was under contract for two more seasons before Beane extended him at $26M per for 2024-2027. Daryl Williams, Jon Feliciano and Quinton Spain were all released less than a calendar year after their extensions........Spain didn't even make it half way thru his first season of that extension. Ryan Bates looks like he might have lost his starting job already. Adding 2 years $20M to to Morse to extend him after already having made him the highest paid C in the NFL isn't a particular cap success story but compared to the other OL extensions it obviously could have gone much worse. The Dawson Knox extension is TBD. He got top 5 TE money at the time in anticipation of getting better.........but then was basically the same player he had been in 2021.......which is to say more like top 15-20 TE. He's the 7th highest paid TE in the NFL this coming season. Hopefully things go better for him this season on and off the field and his pay and his performance start getting closer to each other in 2023. The Ed Oliver extension is different from every other extension Beane has done. Where Knox was similarly paid for anticipated improvement.........DK was also coming off of a season where he was on the field for over 900 offensive snaps. Oliver not only doesn't play the snaps of other top DT's he also is being paid for anticipated improvement. So while I don't disagree that Beane has had a considerably better track record with own-player extensions than he has had in free agency(where he's had putrid results)........I think they've gotten past the point where the players that are coming up for extension are relative slam dunks in terms of past performance and contract asking price like the Allen/Dawkins/Milano/White group.

The Gabriel Davis comment is called an analogy. Gabe had a 6 game stretch from week 5-10 last season where he averaged 79 yards per game.............a 1343 yard 17 game pace........which would have placed him 8th in receiving yards in the NFL. More than Travis Kelce, for reference. So would you be OK with Beane saying that 1300 yards is therefore doable for Gabe and that the Bills better jump on the chance to pay him top 20 WR money......which would be a $90M-$100M 5 year extension? That's what we are talking about here with Oliver. He has had a few great games but has yet to either play the snaps of.....or produce numbers that resemble a top DT. I do agree that the floor needs to become AT LEAST 70% of the snaps......you can't be running in liabilities like Jordan Phillips or Brandin Bryant for 45% of the damn snaps and paying Ed $17M. But that 70% is like 200 more snaps than he played just last season(presuming he plays 17). It's a lot easier said than done.........and with those snaps he needs to add more than 1-2 sacks of production. He simply has to become a MUCH better player. That's generally not how these contracts are earned.

My math is the ACTUAL math over the course of his career not just a tiny subset of games you are trying to cherry pick in his defense. It's been pretty static with Ed Oliver and his 60% snap counts in 2022 don't even count games that he missed to injury. He actually played the least % of total defensive snaps of any season because last season he missed 3 full games and subsequently had the lowest snap total of his career. I'm not slighting him even a bit on the math I am actually giving him a full pass for games missed to injury while judging him on his full body of work. He's far, far from an 80% snap guy. Miles from it. As for not knowing yet what he will look like in the future.........I guess we don't know that Gabriel Davis isn't going to put up 1500 yards and 12 TD's next season either...........but I'm not going to pay him like a WR1 now in anticipation that he will essentially double his career production. That's kinda' what they are doing with Ed Oliver........hoping that he plays and produces A LOT more. What he's done doesn't justify top pay. That's the only way we can judge the deal at this point. He's had 4 years of runway to prove what he is. The Poona Ford-esque sack and tackle numbers coming from a guy who is playing the playmaking 3T not the grinding 1T just don't justify the VAST difference between making a few million and $17M.

You see that's more like it.........providing what you think is the info that makes him worthy of $30K per snap. The issue is that pressures alone don't elevate you as a pass rusher and run stop win rate when you aren't only making 30 some tackles because you aren't playing that much is limited in it's value. If pressures were THAT valued then Jerry Hughes would have been seen in a much different light when he was at the top of the league in pass rush win rate and pressures but only getting 5 sacks per year. Beane isn't spending early picks on DE's and signing Von Miller if Jerry's ifs and buts were candies and nuts. The big money per snap should be reserved for closers and guys who do it while not having to be subbed out for 40% or more of the snaps. Ed's snap counts are so incredibly low that he's basically a situational pass rusher compared to the other top producers. In short.........he needs to become a very different player.........one who plays more snaps and makes more plays to justify $17M per season.

Gabe got plenty of heat from fans during games last season about his bad hands and he's not shy about yelling back at them. Hopefully he uses that as motivation to get better. When you are among the worst ball droppers and least efficient target catchers in the entire league.......the criticism is warranted.

He would have to become extremely efficient. Maybe he will..........but expecting a huge jump in production after 4 years of being what he has been when you have already given the guy his "career" contract is very risky.

I like Ed Oliver. He's been a solid, physical DT with the talent to maybe become a star pass rusher. I liked the pick at the time and I've often defended him to people who claim he's just average. I was really looking forward to him playing for a contract because he's proven that he can be very impactful when he's really motivated. To me, he is the perfect example of a walk year wonder in waiting. I was EXPECTING something like a 10 sack season. I think Ed has some complacency in his nature and needed a walk year with huge consequences to learn what he is really capable of and raise his own expectations for his level of play. I really don't think this is a Milano situation where a player was fine with taking a hometown discount and was already on a natural trajectory to hit his ceiling as a player. I hope that's not the case and that Ed keeps trying to raise his game physically AND mentally(as Eric Washington was imploring).

Yeah the point is that they are being paid almost exactly the same.......$30,000 per snap played. Hargrave played 715 snaps per season in Philly in his breakout seasons the past two years that got him that big contract.........and totaled 18.5 sacks and 123 tackles. Ed's leadup to earning the same pay per play? Just able to play 575 snaps per season and accumulated only 6.5 sacks and 75 tackles. To put the snap counts in perspective.........Aaron Donald played 1,055 regular season snaps in 2021 when he earned his massive extension. Christian Wilkins for the Dolphins played 955 snaps. Ed's career average of 570 snaps per season is absurdly low for a perceived frontline starting DT. What that means is you really need some QUALITY depth at DT3T to play 40% plus of the snaps when Ed is only able to post an average of just under 56% of the snaps.

I don't think his underlying analytics are that good.........but it's easy to just SAY they are and not back it up.........which you sorta' did when vaguely claiming he is now a 70% snap guy(even if that is a low bar as well). It stands to reason that a guy who plays just over half of the snaps will be fresher and should be more productive on a per-play basis...........but he's not comparable to $20M types even on a per-snap basis even though those guys are doing a lot more heavy lifting. Yeah.......he does need to up his counting stats but he also needs to be better on a per play basis and play a higher % of snaps. The same argument could be made about Gabriel Davis and I guess there would be a lot of reasons to believe he will become a WR1..........I guess then it's very for his agent to ask for 80% of a top 11 WR contract?

I said he's HURT a lot. Not INJURED a lot. I don't think you are intending to create a straw man argument.........but you are. Hurt and injured are different things. Ed is hurt a lot and when he has those hurts he disappears........and either of two things happen........excuses are made by observers/fans OR he gets knocked by them for not producing.

If you play 150-300 less snaps than another pass rushing DT it's similar to missing 3-6 games with injury in terms of down-to-down impact. Now if Ed was a wildly productive per-snap player like Javon Hargrave it would be a different story. He's not though..........he's a modest producer......he will get 40 tackles and 3 sacks in the same span that Hargrave will get 60 and 10. It's simple.........for this deal to end up looking decent Ed has to raise his game and become a very different level of player or producer. $30K per snap for his production would be absurd.