thebandit27

The problem is that you aren't really living in reality if you think you can wait until the 2nd or 3rd round to take a chance on a guy like Allen. You either like him enough to take him in round 1 or you aren't taking him, because there's almost no chance that 32 teams are passing on him in round 1. As I've said multiple times in this thread: if you believe that his issues aren't correctable, then you don't draft him. Period. His issues don't all of a sudden become more correctable at pick 50 versus pick 5.

Nope, that's a blatant mischaracterization of the response. Mayock had Wentz as his QB1 in 2016; he's not a bust. He had Watson as his QB1 in 2017; he's not a bust. Neither of the guys he had rated as his top 2 QBs in 2015--Mariota and Winston--should be considered busts to this point. Has he had QBs rated as his QB1 that went on to be busts? Yes, so has everyone else. Again, criticize the QB on the merits--there's no reason to make things up.

Hence why he had a guy like Sanchez over guys like Stafford and Freeman in 2009, right? Also why he ranked guys like Watson and Trubisky over guys like Mahomes and Kizer last year. Or Goff ahead of Paxton Lynch in 2016, or Mariota ahead of Winston in 2015. Or, perhaps he simply weighs each player evaluation differently. That's why a guy like Johnny Manziel can end up his QB1 in 2014 instead of better players in Bortles/Carr/Garappolo/Bridgewater. It's odd to me how crazy Josh Allen has made some folks--evaluate him on the merits; don't make blatantly false statements in an attempt to strengthen a position. Mayock isn't exactly the doing-favors type from what I understand. He's got his favorite traits (and if you go to Boston College or Notre Dame, you're likely to be propped up), but he calls 'em like he sees 'em.

It's basically the same lower-body mechanical flaw that I pointed out in my evaluation; I characterized it as an unstable base.

Mostly agree...I do like that Bodine gives the team a safety net for 2019 in the event that DisGROYer leaves in UFA and they don't already have a young replacement in the fold.

I'm also in on Crosby--love the length and demeanor.

I guess I don't understand. If you truly think he's as bad a player, with as little a chance for success as you say, then why would you bother with him at all? If I really felt the way you appear to (terrible, critical flaws, etc.) about a guy, then he's not on my draft board. Example: Orlando Brown is a 6'8" OT that didn't allow a sack as a senior; he's not on my draft board. He came into draft season with a potential 1st round grade from some personnel guys, and yet I would not pick him with any pick whatsoever. He's overweight, slow, and had a horrendously lazy and nonathletic performance in his workouts.

There's no way that you'd be cool with a "terrible prospect" with "critical flaws" in any round. He's either both of those things and therefore undraftable, or he's neither of those things and your characterization of him is hyperbole.

So your opinion is that he should go undrafted?

You back your opinion up with more opinion

Boise State was a great sample of his range and tackling ability; he also took on a pretty wide breadth of responsibilities, which makes it a good choice

Really nice work as always Gunner Obviously you know where I stand on these dudes, so it'll be fun to see how it all shakes out

I hope that's the case, as it leaves more volume for us...I have never been a Lynch guy; just didn't seem to make NFL throws often at Memphis. Gotta give the kid credit for his approach this offseason though

Agreed that he'll need time, and that I'd be worried about him trying to play with our current crop of WRs For me, the best situation would be Denver--they have Keenum and two solid WRs, plus he'd be close to home

Agreed. I'd really like to see some of the detractors put up a compelling analysis; I'm hardly closed-minded on the subject

It doesn't "confirm" anything except NDT's opinion In fact, where Allen is drafted in 4 weeks will confirm what level prospect he is. I like the way that the analysis curates data, but again I say: level of talent absolutely matters. Allen is QBing an offense with pro style route concepts. If he's doing it right, then he's making throws to spots and within windows that are there by design. Make no mistake: he's playing with a cast of characters that will not be drafted. So much of an NFL offense is timing, coordination; generally being on the same page. So again I challenge people to watch the games and make their own judgment; you might see a guy that can't hit the broad side of a barn, but in multiple viewings of every throw the kid has made as a college QB, I haven't seen that. Not even close

Monster Lavonte David like I have Leonard graded as a top-50 guy, Warner as a day 2, and DOD as an early day 3 guy

Leonard, Warner, and O'Daniel have been my predictions for a while now One of them will be a Bill IMO

FWIW, Whaley himself said that Ebron would've been the pick had they stayed at 9 in 2014, and Rex said that their board was Shaq-Ragland-Reed in 2016, so if Brown's mock had Shaq and Rags off the board by 19, then his pick would've been correct per Rex. That said, this regime does seem to be much more tight lipped

The interesting thing for me is that there are definitely parts of Allen's game that deserve scrutiny; his accuracy, IMO, is down the list. I tend to think of it this way: when the time comes for Allen to make a critical throw, will the ball go where he wants it to and in sufficient time? You'll have a hard time finding someone that would answer "no". The biggest issue with him is the tendency to try to do waaaaay too much. He won't give up on a play, and he tries to make throws that no QB in history can make (that he occasions to do so successfully probably isn't helping). Is that something that can be remedied? I have no idea. I want to believe that when he's surrounded by NFL talent, he'll recognize that he simply needs to be a QB and not a cowboy, but that's part of the Allen gamble

The people that need to watch him more are folks that claim "bad accuracy", which is de facto repetition of talking heads with zero research behind it. Whether someone agrees with me or not, I've done more than my fair share of homework on these guys, and I've put my game breakdowns on this forum to back it up. What would be really great is if someone that claims that Allen is dead money did their own breakdown instead of merely repeating what someone else says about the kid No offense here: It's ironic that someone would knock an Allen supporter for doing exactly what the Allen detractors do. As I continue to say: he's my QB4 behind Rosen/Mayfiled/Darnold, and I have no trouble with him being drafted in the top 5 as a potential franchise QB

You can almost bet money that one of the unspoken provisions of Dorsey's hiring was "you will be taking a QB with that first pick"

I'm well aware of the dangers of believing everything coaches and GMs say around draft time, but it's pretty darn obvious that they're taking a QB at No. 1 overall.

I had EJ as my QB1 that year and a borderline 1st round pick (mostly based on positional value). In another year, he probably would've been a day 2 guy for me. Hack got a Day 2 grade from me, and I had Lynch as a 3rd round guy--just not my cup of tea. For me, Allen is a better player than those guys. Set aside the obvious arm talent; Allen is a better athlete than those guys, and IMO he is a far better downfield passer than any of those dudes. He also doesn't have the inability to pull the trigger the way those guys did. I also like that he hangs in there and delivers strikes despite being getting killed on a regular basis, and that he manages to hit big plays despite inferior WR talent. In general, if you visit my QB thread you'll see my take on Allen, but to answer your question: no, I don't have a specific QB style.

Why do you think that is the case? You believe that only 3 of Cleveland, NYG, NYJ, Denver, and Miami will select QBs, and that none of Buffalo, Arizona, Baltimore, LAC, or Pittsburgh will move into the top 11?