Thurman#1

No, it just isn't. Drafting him that high in the first place certainly appears to have been a major mistake. Getting a 5th for the player with what we know now is a good move. Those are two separate moves.

Come on, man. You're a good poster, but it's very obvious he wasn't specifically referring to this trade only when he referred to Beane as a wizard. Some may have been, but he wasn't. Bean has been sensational. That's absolutely a very big majority consensus. As it should be. Not perfect, nobody is, but terrific, absolutely.

Yeah, nobody comes back from the Achilles on the O-line. Take Jason Peters and his Achilles team in 2012, he's sucked since except almost certainly earning his way to the Hall of Fame. Terrell Suggs. Vince Wilfork. Sure, there's a chance he'll never come back, or that if he does he'll be a "shadow of himself." But there's also a possibility he'll be fine. As is generally so, we'll have to wait and see.

He may have. Being a serviceable player and being traded from this team are not mutually exclusive.

That's the extension, not the contract. He's now signed for 5 years and $85M. We'll see how much of that is actually likely to be earned when we see the details.

There are a lot more STs impact plays kicks than TDs. A run out to the 40 or 45, stoning an opponent's return inside the 20, these are impact plays. Matakevich had an absolute game-saving play recovering that surprise onside kick Belichick called, was it in 2020? Plus some nice work on D here and there.f And while I'm not willing to go count, I doubt more impact plays were made by WR5s and LB5s. Plus, Kumerow had a great TD catch. Matakevich had an absolute game-saving play recovering that surprise onside kick Belichick called, was it in 2020? Plus some nice work on D here and there.

Too early to be gloating. Our offense hasn't kept up with the defense either. But I certainly wouldn't mind if this kept up through the season.

Julio must have skied for 8 - 12 inches there. Still like Julio, but I'm glad we're not having to count on him. I'm sure Tampa is too, as Godwin will come back and they can keep the demands a bit light on Julio. Oughta be interesting.

Heh heh. Nice.

Dunno what capfriendly does. Since nobody has gotten back to you yet, have you tried Spotrac? They have some roster manipulation and salary cap effects stuff. You may already know them. If you don't, google: Spotrac Buffalo Bills. Then play with the "Manage Roster" feature.

Competing in that chart only with (outside of Gabe Davis and Diggs, obviously) Hodgins, Marquez Stevenson, Tanner Gentry and Neil Pau'u, by the way. In real life, several others are running reps at outside WR in camp. But I'm with you that I think Kumerow is going to make the roster. He's pretty cheap and they absolutely love him on STs beyond any time he might spend at WR.

Oh my God, that's HILARIOUS!! You're so desperate that you change the quote and carefully leave the link off, so nobody can check it? HILARIOUS!!! Here's the actual quote, the whole thing, with a link so anyone who wants can check it: "Shakir had a nice day yesterday, I think position 1 for him is probably right now slot as well, but he can play outside, he's got some versatility. I would definitely say we're stronger from a depth point inside than outside, we'll continue to look." https://www.audacy.com/podcasts/howard-and-jeremy-20258/hjs-bills-general-manager-brandon-beane-1516265348 Somehow BADOL accidentally left out the part of the quote that is most damaging to his argument. Isn't that a funny coincidence? Weirdly, he put the whole quote in quotation marks, moved things around to slant it a bit more towards his argument, and left out that part. Shockingly, he forgot to put the ellipses in there to show he left something out. Anyone surprised he'd deliberately mess up a quote if it served his argument? The guy who, referring specifically to that quote above said, "Just last week Brandon Beane said Shakir was a slot receiver"? Anyone surprised? Anyone?

No. Big Turk didn't say that Shakir would only be used outside. So you're wrong there too. He said "Shakir is going to be fine there." I'm not sure I agree with that, frankly. But there's no reason to think that he meant they were going to use Shakir primarily outside. He could easily have meant that if there's an injury he thought that the Bills thought that Shakir could back up our outside guys well enough. You replied - WRONGLY - ""Brandon Beane said Shakir was a slot receiver." Since I've asked three or four times for a link elsewhere to him saying that and you have replied with crickets, you're obviously referring to what he said to Howard and Jeremy. And it's very obvious that he never said that. Just the opposite, as part of the quote is that "[Shakir] can play outside, he's got some versatility." Yeah. You're wrong. He never said that.

Am I saying you were wrong? Um, yeah. The reason I say that is because you were wrong. But again, I give you a chance to prove me wrong about that. Here's what you said: If you can find a link to anywhere where "Brandon Beane said Shakir was a slot receiver," you'll have proved me wrong. He didn't say that. Due to your confirmation bias, that's what you heard, obviously. What he actually said was, "I think position 1 for him is probably right now slot as well, but he can play outside, he's got some versatility." Those are his words. If you had said something along the lines of, "'Beane said he thinks position 1 for Shakir is probably slot but that he can play outside,' but due to my pre-existing biases I take that to mean that Beane said Shakir was a slot" ... I'd have had no argument. But again, you didn't say that. You didn't even say something like, "I think Beane means that Shakir's a slot." Again, you said, "Beane said Shakir was a slot receiver." And Beane didn't say that. He said, "I think position 1 for him is probably right now slot as well, but he can play outside, he's got some versatility." Those are his words. To repeat, if you find somewhere where Beane said that Shakir was a slot, I'll be glad to admit that you were correct.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. Thought it was not clear why he went there first. Could easily have been because he's the only guy there who is clearly and only outside depth. As for Shakir getting heavy usage outside, that's probably fair. Odds are against Kumerow doing so either, IMO. Diggs or Davis might not get hurt, for one thing. If Diggs or Davis gets injured, my guess is we'll see them use a lot of different formations and personnel groups and a lot of different guys outside seeing what works. And that the later in the season it is, the more Shakir would be used. Or that in case of an injury they bring someone else in, Sanders, perhaps.

No, he's a terrific head coach. But yeah, having a terrific QB and roster is more important to winning than having a terrific coach.

Sure, there'll be examples both ways.

Yup, exactly.

Probably what changed within the organization is that before the season they thought he'd shut up about it during the season and at least follow the Covid rules. Then as he ran up fines, refused to follow rules he didn't like, kept talking during the season, and caused distractions and pissed and moaned about Bills fans, a lot of folks there lost patience. That'll change how people react to you. There are still at least a couple of guys on this team who were anti-vax. Whatever changed within the organization apparently didn't change much in relation to those guys. Just to Beasley. It's not hard to understand.

BADOL said "Brandon Beane said Shakir was a slot receiver." Thought not. Thanks for telling me where to find it. I went and listened. I've got to say, while I think you fairly summarized things, I didn't think that saying Kumerow's name first meant they're assuming he'll be the first guy in. Sounded to me more like he's the first guy of the guys who are not also running time at the slot. "We feel as a veteran big guy that he can help us." That's not a commitment of any sort as to who'll be in first. The question specifically said that they were strong in the slot but what about outside depth. Seemed natural to me that Beane would first mention a guy who was not running in the slot. And he immediately then added in Crowder, Shakir, Hodgins. "We like the depth where we're at there." https://www.audacy.com/podcasts/howard-and-jeremy-20258/hjs-bills-general-manager-brandon-beane-1516265348 If you're right and they're thinking of Kumerow as first in there, that would concern me a bit too. And he did say, "Shakir had a nice day yesterday, I think position 1 for him is probably right now slot as well, but he can play outside, he's got some versatility." Wouldn't be shocked to see them bring someone in, particularly in case of injury.

To quote your own self, "Where and when did Brandon Beane say this?" When did he say "Shakir was a slot"? I miss things, so I suppose it's possible. If I missed it, I'd love to see a link. Show me a link where he said that. What I've seen them say is that he may be primarily seen as a slot but that they're teaching him all the positions and that he's playing very well everywhere they put him and that he could see work in several places. Just yesterday we got this: "Offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey says he and the coaches are still getting to know Shakir’s skillset, particularly since the receiver missed some time during OTAs. “'He's going to continue to grow in his role, and we're going to continue to find out what he can do, whether it's inside, outside or anything like that,' Dorsey said. “I don't ever want to handcuff any of our guys. I want to be able to kind of see all of what they can do.” "Dorsey is also experimenting with all receivers as he molds the offense to his liking. It can be a lot to take in for a rookie such as Shakir, who’s already navigating the jump the NFL. But Shakir doesn’t mind that there’s still some ambiguity on what his role may be. “'I just keep an open mind every single day,' Shakir said. 'I'm not really one to try to figure out what they're trying to do with me. It's more of just show up, and wherever they put me, wherever they need me, keep an open mind, and make sure that whatever spot they do put me in, I go and attack it with the right mindset and a level of intensity that stands out and shows when I'm out there on the field.'” HERE'S THE LINK: https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/rookie-receiver-khalil-shakir-is-a-special-kid/article_53136244-15cb-11ed-9994-27542e85ff0a.amp.html Chad Hall recently said pretty much the same thing, that he's running inside and outside, that he understands and performs very well at all of the positions and that his options are open. HERE'S THE LINK: https://www.buffalobills.com/video/chad-hall-on-the-slot-receiver-impact-in-the-bills-offense-bills-by-the-numbers- Again, I'll wait to see if you have a link that says anything anywhere near as cut and dry as that he's a slot. If you do, I'll give you your due. But I haven't seen anything like it, and my guess is you can't find one.

Cleared of charges means you were acquitted or exonerated. He wasn't. The charges were dropped, which is different. He might be innocent. Equally, he might be guilty but the victims figured they'd rather be rich than honest. ------------------- "Broward prosecutors dropped the robbery charges against Baker on Monday, the same day the Sheriff’s Office arrested Dean on a charge of extortion. "Baker’s attorney, Bradford Cohen, had argued from the start of the case in May that the alleged victims of the robbery were in it for the money. The men accused Baker of threatening them with a handgun and stealing thousands of dollars in cash and jewelry over a gambling dispute in Miramar. "Charges against a co-defendant, Seattle Seahawks player Quinton Dunbar, fizzled out after the victims signed affidavits swearing he was not involved in the robbery. According to case records, the men had been paid a combined total of $55,000 by Dunbar at a Miami law office days after the alleged robbery. "Earlier this month, the victims signed sworn statements saying Baker, too, was not involved in the robbery. "Dean, who represented three of the victims, tried to get Baker to pay each of them $266,000, promising they would stop cooperating with prosecutors in exchange. "According to the Sheriff’s Office, Dean made arrangements for them to sign the new statements exonerating Baker. Dean had told Cohen that the victims would do “anything" as long as they’re paid, the Sheriff’s Office said. "The affidavits were delivered. The money was not. "Cohen declined to discuss his role in obtaining the new statements, but said Baker paid the men “Zero dollars, with a capital Z.” Prosecutors said the conduct of the victims left them powerless to bring Baker to justice even if he did commit a crime. “Their credibility is inalterably tarnished,” prosecutor Paul Valcore wrote in a memo explaining the Broward State Attorney’s Office’s decision to drop the charge. Baker, 23, a cornerback, was the New York Giants' first round pick in the 2019 draft. He graduated from Miami Northwestern High School in 2015 and went on to attend the University of Georgia. "Baker was with the team until after prosecutors charged him with pulling a gun on the gambling party and stealing $73,500 in cash and valuables, including an $18,000 Rolex watch, a Hublot watch valued at $25,000, an Audemars Piguet watch valued at $17,500, a $600 Richard Mille knock-off watch, and at least $12,400 in cash. "Miramar police obtained arrest warrants for the two players. But before they could be carried out, the four victims attended a meeting at the Miami office of attorney Mike Grieco, a Democratic member of the Florida House of Representatives who just won re-election unopposed. At Grieco’s office on May 15, according to case documents, the four men signed the sworn statements clearing Dunbar, Grieco’s client at the time. When investigators confronted the victims about the flip-flop, the men confessed they had been paid off, according to records released by Miramar police. "The case against Dunbar was hopelessly tainted, and prosecutors cited “insufficient evidence” when they declined to formally charged him. Baker was charged with robbery in August and released from the Giants a month later. "Cohen, Baker’s lawyer, criticized the State Attorney’s Office for pursuing charges against Baker even after the case against Dunbar collapsed. Dean remained in custody throughout the day Monday. His record with the Florida Bar is unblemished, according to the Bar’s website. A message left at the office of his Miami firm, Ford, Dean and Rotundo, was not returned Monday." ------------------ https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/crime/fl-ne-deandre-baker-charges-dropped-20201116-smav26dgf5c5dozkljliej4x6u-story.html His lawyers are saying it was all a setup. The city is implying they think it happened but there's no chance of getting a conviction with the witnesses so thoroughly tarnished. It's not clear what happened.

12 STs snaps in 2019, 3 in 2020 and zero in 2021. And around $1.4M more expensive than Kumerow. $1.4M is about 40% of their remaining cap space. They don't seem eager to kick more cans down the road and weaken their position next year. The Bills love Kumerow for STs. Wouldn't be too surprised to see another WR brought in if they feel they need one, and particularly in case of injuries, but I'm betting if they do, he'll be cheapish. I'm wondering if it might be Sanders. But my guess is they feel that in case of injury they could play a mix of Crowder, Shakir, maybe Kumerow and whoever's on the roster / practice squad. Maybe a lot of two TE formations or other groups. They'd like to bring someone in all being equal and the right guy being available. But they don't seem to think it's a necessity. Maybe they'll change their mind at some point but right now that seems to be where they're at.

Last year Peters played on a one-year $1.075M contract. I don't think money is going to be the problem, not when you're signing him in August. And Peters did play a solid competent 2021 at LT for the Bears. Played 15 games competently. There are many reasons competent guys might not be signed already beyond competence and money. Teams might want to give their current youngsters playing time, they might have a guy as good as Peters who they want to groom and give experience to. They might figure since Peters is still available now, he will probably still be available in case of injury. They might figure older guys are injury prone and want to bring in a younger guy. I don't think they'll bring in Peters, but my guess is he's still plenty competent. For how long is a very legitimate question, of course. This is what I think stops the deal from happening. It's also why the Giants may end up getting rid of him. If they even like Slayton, this is one of the main reasons they're not likely to trade for him.

Say what you will. The truth is anyone arguing that the round a guy is picked shows he's good or bad just doesn't get it. That goes either way. You can't use a first round pick to show the guy will be a success, and you can't use a late round pick to show he'll be a failure. The round a guy is picked is super-important right up to draft day. After you're picked, it's all how you perform. The reason your argument here is pulling so much crap is because it's simply a stupid argument.