Alphadawg7

My main issue with MVS is his unreliable hands, but he does bring a speed element to the group. Top 3 are without a doubt Coleman, Shakir, and Samuel. So MVS would be competing for WR4 spot and a stretch the field guy mostly with Hollins and Claypool. Personally, the guy am rooting for is Claypool because if he can get his crap together and show this team he can play the right way and be about the team, this dude could easily emerge as a major weapon for Josh as he has a ton of untapped raw ability and talent. Im just not gonna hold my breath either on him though as its a big ask to ask a guy to change his whole attitude and mentality at this stage of his career. The hope with him is that realizing this is his last shot and that he an INCREDIBLE opportunity to save his career playing for a culture like this and a QB like Allen. I mean this kid was avg over 850 yards a season his first 2 years playing on raw ability and with a broken down Big Ben as the WR3 on his team. If this kid can get his head on straight, he could do big things with Allen.

He didn't say that, he literally said he would look at potential free agents and potential signings and then said "we might even be signing one today we just worked out" and then did just that signing Cephus. He did however say no big trades/signings. There is no reality or parallel universe where MVS is a "big signing". Sorry, I just don't know where you are getting these "smokescreens" from...I mean he is literally known to be one of the most, if not the most, straight shooting GM in the league and very candid in interviews. It is one of the reasons people like McAfee, Eisen, etc love interviewing him because he actually gives real answers and insight. How many Beane interviews and press conferences do you listen to? And do you listen to the whole 15 to 30 minutes or just see sound bites on social? While I am sure I have missed some, I have watched most of them and the full PC/Interview, I thoroughly enjoy them. I am not trying to be a "know it all", I just literally listen to all his PC's and interviews, and do the same with a lot of the main ones like McD, Allen, Diggs, Keon now, etc.

Well that has been the style of the Roasts for probably 20 years now if you go back and watch all the Comedy Central ones which many were great also.

Keeping the tradition of bad Thursday night games where one team blows out the other Buf 48 Mia 13

Well there in lies the disconnect or disagreement per se. You are "sold" that Coleman isn't capable of being a WR1. And while there is nothing wrong with you having that opinion of an unproven player, I think you are not leaving yourself room to be proven wrong either. As much sold you are that he is nothing more than a WR2, there are others sold he can be an elite WR1. I get it though, everyone has takes or opinions this time of year, and nothing wrong with that. But, I would recommend at least leaving room for the concept that Coleman may just be the Alpha you say you would be excited about this group if we had. He was definitely drafted by guys who scouted him beyond just a highlight tape at FSU to be the Alpha. But hey, I am not saying you are wrong for your opinion or concerns either, I just think its always, 100% of the time, a mistake to conclusively decide on a rookies future before they have ever stepped on the field. How many people had St. Brown pegged to be who he is on draft night? Nobody was talking about Davante Adams, Cooper Kupp, etc etc on the nights they were drafted to be elite top 5 players at points in their careers. Mr. Irrelevant just started in the Super Bowl and was an MVP candidate in his first full year starting, also only his 2nd year in the league. The best talent doesn't normally have all the best measurables, that has been proven time in and time again over and over throughout NFL history. People (saying in general, not sure what your main beef specifically is with him) wanting to write off or significantly cap Coleman's potential because they don't love really one main measurable (his 40 time being the most talked about negative and then translating that to he won't get open) is incredibly premature. I am all for doubt, concerns, questions, etc...its the conclusive mindset that he "can't" be something before he has stepped on the field that I will never understand...same goes for anyone who conclusively decided he will be a stud as that is just as premature too. Lastly...this whole statement I bolded above is wild to me, and honestly, its a "fools gold" type answer, meaning it leads to a false positive answer. First off, ranking the WR group is an absolutely meaningless exercise and really has no realistic way to predictive of on field results. No disrespect, but this notion that the only way to rank or build a WR group is on sheer talent is not at all accurate. I get the mindset, but it leads to a false predictive conclusion of expected results. A bottom tier WR group is currently the back to back SB champions. In all 7 of Brady's SB wins he had a mediocre or bottom tier group of WR's and the ones he lost he had his best set of WR's in his career. All kinds of teams besides Chiefs and Patriots had mediocre to bad WR groups who won the SB even in the passing era of the NFL like Philly, Seattle, Ravens, Giants, etc. What makes a group good or not is not the individual accolades, its the fit within the team, the offense, as a core, etc. Not many teams who won the SB in the past 20 years had a truly dominant Alpha WR. Its not about having a WR that puts up over 1500 yards...in fact, go check the NFL SB winners and count how many teams had that kind of WR on their roster when they won the SB. You want to win in the postseason then you better win in the trenches and you better move the chains. Its not rocket science, and there are many ways to move the chains. Some do it with a dominant run game...some do it with spreading the ball around with a balanced attack...some do it with an all out air attack to an Alpha WR. You know which of those happens more? The teams who SPREAD the ball around with a balanced offense. Go count how many SB winners won in an all out air attack to a Alpha WR. Go count how many SB winners won in an all out ground attack. And then go and look at the box score of the teams who had a balanced offense where they spread the ball around, were able to run the ball, and kept the chains moving controlling the clock and scoring points. Its overwhelmingly that category. So while I get until we see the product on the field there is warranted doubt, concerns, questions, etc...this whole we are "doomed" mentailty doesn't actually add up to SB championship results. We have literally have the #1 WR in efficiency and catch rate from 2023 just now coming into his own, we have the 2nd leading TE in efficiency and catch rate as a rookie in Kincaid, we just added a 4.3 guy in Samuel who has never had a real QB and had his best seasons under Brady, and we have a promising rookie how at the very least is a MUCH NEEDED redzone TD machine. And thats with arguably the 2nd best QB in the league, and some other quality depth behind them and a run game that was quite good last year and might be even better this year. Meanwhile, the best WR's of the last 20 years mostly are without a SB ring. None for Adams, Hopkins, Megatron, Julio, Jefferson, Chase, Diggs, etc, etc. Would it be great to also have a WR like one of those guys...sure...but history has shown its not even remotely close to "necessary", especially to the degree some of you have bene making it out to be. I don't say all this to smite you, I say all this to maybe help talk you off your ledge abit because you have been abnormally angry and over the top about this subject for awhile. And I think its fair to be concerned until we see what happens, but there is also more possibility and more hope here than you realize. Personally...I think Josh Allen is about to have his best career season yet. And there is no one who will be running out there on that field the DC can ignore, including Cook and Davis out of the back field.

It’s all good…but come on man, come back to reality. If you think MVS, Chase, or Hollins are capable of over taking Samuel and even Coleman, then that is the wildest take I have seen all off season. I can accept you are not high on the group, but that is such an unrealistic and over the top take. The only caveat is that Claypool actually has the pure ability and talent to be a WR1 or WR2 and succeed in this league. But his attitude, mental ineptitude, entitlement, etc have sunk his stock to lower than ABs. So if he shocks and comes in and busts his tail off, hustles, puts the effort and work in, he could surprise and maybe be the WR2 for the Bills at some point. But that’s a lot to ask, and I’m not holding my breath as it’s rare a guy can make that kind of turnaround when things like effort and selfishness are so ingrained in their character.

Update: I was not able to get it yesterday but still might today. Again, if I do I’ll share it. It’s not a sure thing, but a strong maybe right now.

No he never said that. Point failed.

MVS has played with prime Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes has never put up a single season better than either Chase or Hollins. And no, this is not indicative of “what kind of offseason it’s been” for getting Allen more weapons. We are talking about guys who will be at and of the bench from WR4 to WR6. And all if these guys are on par, or even better, than a lot of teams WRs at end of bench, including the back to back SB champs. So don’t over exaggerate this as if these guys are here to be primary weapons at the top of the depth chart, at least one, or maybe two will not even make this roster.

I am too. I’m not gonna hold my breath, but, if this kid gets his head right the talent is there. I think him being with JuJu was literally the worst thing for him in Pittsburgh who had him more focused on dancing on TikTok than being dedicated to his craft. He learned how to coast off his talent rather than putting the time in to be a complete WR. I mean Sean’s mantra is come here if you want to be your best self, and that has been true for a lot of players who had their career best years here on both sides of the ball or exceeded draft expectations. So if there was a place for this kid to get on track, it’s Buffalo. He’s got the QB and the right culture here, but he also will be on a short leash and an easy cut if he’s still not getting it.

The stats don’t support that. Chase Claypool had back to back 850+ yard seasons to start his career with a broken down Big Ben as the 3rd WR before his attitude got him traded to purgatory in Chicago and then at end of bench in Miami last year. MSV has never reached 700 yards in 6 years playing with prime Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes, including last year when the chiefs were desperate at WR and he only put up 315 yards. Even Mack Hollins has the same career high of 690 yards in a season as MVS does, except Hollins did it as the 3rd WR and playing with Carr instead of MVP Rodgers. Hollins has the better attitude of all 3. And he is a much better blocker, and better ST player too. Chase has the most raw ability and talent, but he’s got to his head right after JuJu poisoned him young. MVS just sucks at everything. His only hope of beating out Chase is that Chase hasn’t learned his lesson and doesn’t get his head right on what is likely his last chance before hitting CFL. I doubt he would beat out Hollins either as Hollins does more.

I know you don't hate him, and it's why I said too that my comparison wasn't meant to change your mind on your overall concerns or questions about him. I think you are quite fair about him in your opinion even if I see him as a round higher than you did and see his ceiling probably higher than you. It was more to show why I don't personally see them as that similar and why I think Coleman has the potential to be much more than Davis ever was. By no means am I of the mindset he is a lock to be a successful WR1, but I do think his floor is high and that at the very least he will be a great WR2 if he doesn't prove to be the answer at WR1. Personally, when I watch Coleman and take into consideration all the attributes we just discussed, I don't think there is a particular WR that comes to mind as a direct 1 to 1 comparison. His combo of size and fluid athleticism is pretty unique. Coleman for me has both a high floor and still having a high ceiling. If he reaches his potential, I think that could look something like a blend of DeAndre Hopkins and Brandon Marshall.

I mean that doesn't say much, the majority of the best QB's are in the AFC. And Goff is better than Lawrence (who might be the most over rated player in the NFL) and certainly better than Wilson. Many would take him over Tua too who can't beat .500 teams with the fastest offense in NFL history. To be clear, I didn't say he was the 8th best QB, I said he would most often fall in that range of 8 to 12 and its not at all unreasonable for someone to make a case for him around 8. Top 5 - Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lamar, Stroud (in no particular order) Next 3 - Rodgers (until he proven otherwise), Herbert, and Dak (In no particular order) Thats 8 - and I don't think its unreasonable for someone to make a case he is better than Dak. Next group of guys would be: Hurts, Stafford, Purdy, Tua, Kirk, and maybe Love. Goff certainly is valid to be in this group, and not unreasonable to make a case for him over any of those guys. So I stand by I think the 8-12 range is where he would most commonly rank. Cant see any logical case to be higher than 8 though, and I don't think it would really be fair to list him lower than say 12th either.

I think the differences out number and out weigh the similarities in how Davis can, and will play, here in Buffalo. Let me put it this way...based on what you and I have previously discussed on Coleman, I think you would agree that Coleman is capable of at least doing the things Davis was able to do for the most part. And definitely correct me if I am wrong, but I think you would agree with that based on things you previously said. Since I don't have the answer right this minute, lets just assume you do answer yes, and think Coleman is at least capable of replacing Davis role in the offense. Now lets look at some of the key components of them as players and who is better... ATHLETICISM: Coleman is certainly more athletic than Davis. Not only does Coleman have better burst and acceleration than Davis, but he has substantially better bend and hip flexibility giving him the agility to be effective on screens and even kick returning, things Davis will never be effective at. Davis is a strider, it takes him longer to reach his top speed and its why Coleman will play faster than him on the field. CATCHING: Coleman has better hands, no surprise there. I mean you can see it in how Coleman just plucks the ball from the air. AWARENESS: I would say Coleman is a smarter and a more cerebral player. He is a student of the game and if you watch his interviews he can recall exact plays, exact thoughts, moments, decisions, discussions, etc on plays without even showing him the play. Davis on field awareness was lacking and inconsistent from getting his feet down in bounds, where to go on an option, route depth, etc. CATCH RADIUS: Coleman has a bigger catch radius between the combo of his better hands and knowing how to use his size and body better thanks to his basketball background. ROUTE TREE: Coleman has a more robust route tree ROUTE RUNNING: As a prospect, Coleman is the better route runner and has better foot work IMHO. Davis rounded his routes off and his bread and butter were on routes without sharp cuts BLOCKING: This is the only area I can honestly give Davis the nod on as he is good blocker for a WR. However, Coleman can block, and like Davis, is a willing blocker as well and has the potential to be right there with Davis in this area. Now those items above do not mean Coleman is a lock to be a successful WR1 in the NFL, no one knows that, he will need to prove that on the field. So any concerns you may have about that are still free and clear from the above comparison specifically between Coleman and Davis. But, I do believe it certainly increases his potential to offer more and do more than Davis did the past 4 years. Personally, I do not see Davis when I watch Coleman play. I do think Florida St used him and Wilson both a lot like how Davis played in the NFL, but I don't think that is the extent of Coleman's ability.

While I am not surprised...all my Lion fan friends still refer to him as "Goof" for a reason. Lions really had no choice here, but that is a lot of money for a QB who is a borderline top 10 QB and mostly seen as a guy that falls in the 8th best to 12th best QB range.

My hard issue I had about the Diggs thread was when people were trying to turn things he said into things he completely didn't say to force a negative narrative about Diggs to rally people against him so they would want him traded. And, yes that is your opinion...but its not the opinion of the coaches or Beane. He was drafted to play the X and be a WR1, and Coleman and Davis are not similar players. So no disrespect, but what you want isn't what happened and its not likely going to happen. Bills drafted Coleman to play the X which is your WR1 type role, and time will tell how that works out or not, but that is the plan for him and its been echoed by everyone within the Bills that has spoken on it. And you are right, I shouldn't say 0% chance Beane trades for a WR, I mean Beane has proven to be aggressive when he sees an opportunity. But, again, Beane already stated he has no interest in trading for a pricey Vet several times now before and since the draft. So while it may not be 0%, I would say its highly unlikely without a significant change in circumstances like an injury or the WR group just struggling once everyone gets to camp.

Except he's not.

"Isn't hoarding 2025 draft picks a sign?" - NO...one, we arent "hoarding" them, and no, it is not a sign just like having 75 draft picks in this draft wasn't a sign. "Isnt not getting a top end FA WR a sign?" - NO...not a sign at all. It was never an option from the get go, again, you should try listening to Beane. We did however sign Samuel who is only 27 for 3 years. "Isn't only drafting 1 WR a sign" - NO...not at all, its what many of us expected unless we took a developmental one on day 3. "Wasn't not taking the full amount of Josh's restructure a sign?" - NO, it is a sign that Beane is smart and keeping some flexibility if he needs it. But nothing about that means its a sign we are making a big trade for a WR, especially since Beane has flat out said we are not doing that many times now. There are no signs. This might be the funniest thing I read all off season. You just said you don't listen to Beane, which is obvious considering you have been wrong on everything you thought Beane would do all off season. You were wrong we would trade for a WR before the draft...wrong we would trade up for one of the big 3...wrong we would trade up for Thomas...wrong we would take 2 WR's early (or even at all). But you seem to think your "signs" are still more reliable than what Beane flat out says? LOL ok. And again, maybe you should just listen to Beane...I mean he flat out stated that Coleman is our X WR this year, that is your WR1 and is capable of playing some Z too. The fact you think he was "meant to replace G Davis" just tells me you not only haven't listened to anything Beane has said before or after the draft, but you do not really know much about Coleman and probably make that statement because of your opinion on his 40 time. Because Coleman and Davis are really not similar at all.

Huh? Who is expecting this? I mean literally 0% chance anyone on this list gets traded to the Bills. Bills are not going to trade for a WR, the room is now set for camp. When are people going to just stop and listen to Beane? If you had, you would have known there was no way he was trading up big in the first round, he was not trading for a big name WR, and he isn't doing so after June 1st either. You guys need to let go of this WR fantasy. Coleman is the WR1 on this roster. Get used to it. There are actually no signs suggesting a trade, however...Beane has FLAT OUT said he will not be making any trades for a WR. Just like he said he wasn't trying to trade up in the draft prior to the draft and you guys still thought we were gonna do that.

He won't be going anywhere this year after he reworked his deal. How much he plays this year IMHO will come down to how effective the OL is playing. If the OL struggles to gel with the new pieces this year and takes a step back, they are going to need him on the field more for his blocking as Kincaid isn't bringing much to the table in that department. If that is the case, I can see 50-55% of the snaps easily in his wheel house. If the OL comes out strong, then I think he is more in the 35-45% snap range as I still do expect them to run quite a bit of 2 TE sets and do think Knox will see a lot of snaps on running downs still too. Whether he is here next year, well I honestly don't know the cap or contract scenario for next year since his reworked deal. So hard for me to say how strong his future is past this season. But I would be stunned if he was moved this year after reworking his deal.

Well the problem is we have no idea how the target distribution is going to take shape this year. Well over 200 targets are now gone off the roster between Diggs, Davis, Sherfield, and Harty where 160 of them were from 1 target in Diggs. Shakir is literally the only WR on the roster that knows the offense or has any experience and chemistry with Allen. His role, while both Diggs and Davis were here, after Brady took over would have projected out to 828 yards over a 17 game season...again, that is with Diggs and Davis still on the roster and healthy. Now Diggs and Davis are gone...with them here he would have probably been an 800-900 yard WR this season as that is easily what he was last year with them. Its not at all a stretch to think without them his production rate can elevate easily 20% and maybe as much as 40-50%, especially when he was essentially our best WR the 2nd half of the season and playoffs, and is the only guy who knows both Allen and the offense. And everyone likes to counter that it was because Diggs drew extra coverage...well Davis didn't...and while Diggs did get some extra coverage, it gets a bit exaggerated around here, especially on the impact it had on Shakir if you watch every catch of his last season like I have. But most importantly, this will be a spread the ball around offense, it's not going to need at all to rely on one guy drawing extra coverage, there will be exploitable matchups across the offense. You don't role extra coverage to Coleman, his size, hands, and catch radius will beat you. Samuel runs a 4.3, not a guy to disregard in the offense who had his best years under Brady. Shakir proved to be a reliable and dangerous weapon both before and after the catch last year and is referred to as "Deebo Lite" for a reason. Kincaid is a mismatch over the middle who you can't ignore. This team may not have a Justin Jefferson today...but it has a group that for once finally excels at both route running, short area burst, YAC, and Hands. This isn't KC where outside of Kelce it was a crap shoot if a WR was gonna drop the ball or screw the game up in some other way. Beane is building an offense of "pick your poison" for the defense with guys who can catch, who are tough, and excel at both route running and YAC. So, I do not at all think its unreasonable that his involvement and production can see at least a 20% uptick...and based on his role last year under Brady, that 20% uptick puts him over 1000 yards this season. And I will take a step further and say a 20% uptick is probably his floor. How much above that will come down to how big of a role really Coleman establishes this year and what role Samuel settles into from a target share perspective.

I put this up way back on April 4th…this is how I feel about Shakir and how much confidence I have in him…and have since his name was called on Draft night. I’ll break it down by targets though here: If he gets 90-120 targets this year he will be anywhere from 900-1250 yards. And I do think he will finish the season within that range of targets.

Gabe wasn’t pushed up the depth chart, he is a boundary WR, essentially WR2 as people know it. That is his positional role. Doesn’t mean he’s the “2nd option” in the passing game though, that is what they drafted Kincaid for with Diggs, to bring in their “Kelce” in terms of an offensive role. Gabe had limitations as a WR, but he also had a lot of value as a blocker and doing dirty work. Sanders was washed, so Gabe coming off a big post season seemed poised to start. And while he had limitations he still produced like a WR2 stat wise his first year starting and playing on a bum ankle. Heading into the 2023 draft, they were high on Addison and Kincaid…both to be upgrades as Allen’s secondary target in the pass game and we got Kincaid. Gabe had a similar year and they let him walk as they knew they were going to. So I don’t think he was “pushed” up, he played well enough to earn the starting spot once Sanders was toast. And then from their he just plateaued and didn’t continue to ascend into a more complete WR as hoped and they moved on.

I might be getting the schedule today…if I do I’ll put it up on the board

and significant roles for Davis and Carter