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And of those only Houston was even arguably a team of comparable standard. The way this latest one is different is I was at the London game and Josh sucked, and Houston last year Josh sucked. He threw a bad pick on Monday and didn't play his best game by any stretch but he didn't suck. Previously it has taken Josh playing really poorly to lose those games. The worry is this roster lost with Josh playing okay. Their secondary is a major, major issue right now. I think if you told anyone before the year Benford was gonna play as poorly as he has that would have been entirely predictable.

Kincaid, Moore, Palmer and Samuel all have plenty of down field catches behind them. No, none is a deep threat specialist. It certainly wouldn't be bad to have one of those around. But we've got guys who can do it. For instance, he threw four deep ball against the Pats and completed two. That's not bad for twenty yards or more, the completion percentages are always low for passes with longer air yards. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/single/all/team/2025/week/josh-allen/ALL529264 I know there have been, in earlier games, instances where guys were open long but Josh quickly went to the short sure thing. Which I personally don't have a problem with if it keeps the chains moving.

Agreed. Offense should center around Shakir and Kincaid. This “everybody eats” philosophy is not working as well as it did in the past. I feel like you put the ball in the hands of the playmakers. Also, I feel like Cook should be used more in the passing game too. These are the most dynamic skill players. So get them the ball.

Everybody’s gotta plan until you get punched in the mouth. When the everybody eats stuff aint working, it’s gotta be Cook, Kincaid, and Shakir. Honestly, that should’ve been the gameplan going into the Pats game. I understand spreading it around and not showing all your cards against the weaker teams, but it really felt like we gave that game away with a horrible 1st half offensive gameplan.

one more observation if someone hasn't said this before. this is the third straight year where the team lost in week 5. all three years, they scored EXACTLY 20 points lost 25-20 in jacksonville week 5 2023 lost 23-20 houston week 5 2024 lost to patriots 23-20 week 5 2025

I thought it was interesting seeing the Pats "spinning into eight man coverage," initially confounding Josh, but seeing Kincaid quickly figure out how he can be QB-friendly in that situation. (13:00) Interesting also seeing (4:45) where he makes a case that Josh took the lower-percentage shot giving Coleman a contested catch shot where the CB has him partly stacked and Josh doesn't give him a back-shoulder ball. Eric argues that a shorter pass to Kincaid would probably have made the 1st.

Yep. And it shouldn’t be a mystery why we have no down field threat really other than Davis.

Moving on from the status quo will likely only waste more of Allen’s window. a new coach will want his own staff. Who else gets fired? It will take time to adjust. New plays called and developed. New systems installed. New ideas etc. Wanting different personnel. Fingers crossed the new coach gets it all right. Clocks ticking on Allen too. All sounds good, but this doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time to build. And the odds are you WONT get it right. McD and crew have us right on the brink. Outside of a sb appearance, McD has put forth a highly successful team year in year out. I’d advise staying the course. Turnover of the head coach and/or Beane will set this franchise up for huge failure and disappointment. Same could be said for sticking with the current regime, but man, we’re so close. And it’s not like some amazingly talented, experienced coach is just hanging around out there waiting on a call from the Bills. Ron Rivera anyone? Riding with McD.

While I agree with much of this, there certainly are other ways to run better routes than to "get quicker feet to run sharper routes." You can adjust mechanics, you can adjust timing on cuts, you can learn to gently and imperceptibly push off or do a better job of boxing out ... there are a ton of ways to get better at this. It's not clear what will happen. Certainly it's correct that he might pretty much stay the same guy. Or stay the same guy in terms of separation but win more contested catches as he seemed to do in camp. Or get better at separation. We'll have to see. You're right that some guys improve a ton, and some guys just don't. Yeah, I'd certainly agree, but an extension could be worked out so as to make things easier to swallow for the Bills. I'm sure Knox is aware that many think he is overpaid. I'm hopeful they can find a way to come together. I like how he's looked this year and I like how the multiple TE offenses have looked as well. I'm hoping we start to see even more variations and tendency breakers come out of those formations, as well as just the effects of the extra beef.

Well, if I'm a Keon Truther, what are you? A Keon liar? I wouldn't have used that word if it weren't the opposite of what you used. I don't think of you as a liar, so you know, but I don't appreciate what you called me either. So, if I went back on your posts about Keon, none would mention Thomas or McConkey? If so, you're a bit unusual for folks with your point of view. Do I agree he has failed to meet expect expectations? Not particularly. I think having expectations this early is fairly unreasonable. Has he met my hopes? No. But he was injured last year, and still had a pretty solid year for a rookie. And we're only on week five of his second year. By the end of the year he might easily be having a great year. Or not. Too small a sample. No, he has neither met nor disappointed expectations yet. Too early to know, reasonably, so early in his second year while they work out what they are on offense after spending most of his rookie year unable to squeeze with one hand.

What don't some of you understand that it's a team sport and all facets matter? In 2023, a God at QB named Josh Allen was 6-6, throwing to Stephon Diggs and about to lose the division to the 9-3 Miami Dolphins. Instead, this HC FIRED the OC in Ken Dorsey and replaced him with Joe Brady. Now what did that mean? It meant that the offensive structure of pass first and pass, pass, pass, as it was under Brian Daboll, was no longer working, and NFL defenses had adapted to that style of Buffalo offense being one-dimensional. Now, since Joe Brady has taken over the Buffalo offense, it has become a more run-oriented attack, which has helped Josh Allen become a better NFL QB with fewer turnovers. Currently, the 2025 Buffalo Bills, after week five, are #3 overall on offense. #1 in rushing attempts, #2 in rushing yards, #2 in rushing TDs. Meanwhile, #20 in passing yards, #11 in passing TDs. What this means is that Buffalo is so good at running the ball with RB James Cook, they are second in the league in running with Cook only behind Indy and Jonathan Taylor. In passing, they are 9th, in receiving, they are 46th with Kahil Shakir...why? Because "everybody eats," meaning that all the Bills' receivers will see the ball in a game. While I also love #17, he is not the end-all, be-all, as it's a more balanced offense now. Last season, the 2024 Buffalo Bills were the #1 scoring team in the NFL, playoffs included. They just ran into a better team at their end of the season and had some injuries in the secondary. They also had very little pass rush, pressure, and Buffalo's defense was 29th in 3rd downs allowed. Buffalo was 13-4, but alas, the KC Chiefs were 15-2, and they had home-field advantage. Bottom line, the 2024 Buffalo Bills led the NFL in takeaways at +24 and yet only had one turnover from KC. The Bills couldn't get the Chiefs off the field on 3rd down. Plus, in the playoffs against the Kansas City Chiefs in January 2025, the Buffalo Bills sustained injuries to Christian Benford (concussion) Starter, who was ruled out after the AFC Championship game, and Taylor Rapp (hip) Starter, who was ruled out for the same game due to a hip injury in the previous round. Backup CB Kaiir Elam was burned badly in this game, and the Bills started a rookie at Safety. Those defensive injuries and the lack of pressure on the QB and the inability to get the opposing offense off the field on 3rd down are the reasons the Bills went heavy on the defensive side of the ball this offseason. Currently, Buffalo is dealing with suspensions to two D-line players and some injuries to rookies in their secondary. Things should look better after the bye week. Have some patience.

That wasn’t even the AFCC game. A lot of people assume we would have gotten to the SB, including me at one point. With the benefit of hindsight, I tend not to think so. So, I’m not saying we win a SB. But I firmly believe we make the AFCC, in that moment, with Rex. And that, Bill, is sad imo.

I don’t put too much stock into anything at the combine. It’s nice to confirm what you think you see on tape but guys are so rehearsed now for every drill it’s almost like they can manipulate the results. That’s not a Keon thing. That is every guy participating in every drill. He is a bit of an enigma. His game has clear holes that aren’t easy to overcome. Kincaid’s weaknesses when he entered the draft were size and strength. He wasn’t a good blocker because of it. As a pass catcher he was a very safe option. He had good athleticism, hands, route running, contested catch ability and YAC skills. Basically, to improve he needed to grow and be more physical. That’s much easier to do than to see, “accelerate quicker,” and “get quicker feet to run sharper routes and create more separation.” That’s some of what Keon is up against. Everyone comes out with areas for improvement. Some guys have simple areas to improve like Kincaid while others have flaws that guys do not often overcome like Keon or Josh. Fortunately, Josh beat the odds of overcoming his flaws. Keon looks like the exact same guy that he was in college, a bit of an enigma lol.

Beane runs the draft. He is in charge of personnel. I have that on very good authority from people inside the organisation (or previously inside I should say, both are now elsewhere). McDermott has a big say in the type of team they want to build and the profile of person they want, but the individual selections of FAs and draft picks... that is Brandon Beane. McDermott and the coaches will watch some film and give their input after the scouts grade as is normal right across the NFL. But when it comes to setting the board and executing a draft strategy and picks that is Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott has total faith in him doing it. And I have made this point many times but if you look at the way the Bills draft, the positions the prioritise and the positions they don't it breaks down in very similar percentages to the way the Panthers drafted under Hurney and Gettleman who Beane learned from. Lots of defensive front seven, above average investment in running backs, way below average investment in wide receivers and no offensive linemen in round 1.

Which begs the question Why. Is McDermott a tyrant who won’t bring in someone who will say no to him? I understand on D but on O I like to think coaches would be tripping over themselves to get to work with Josh.

Which begs the often asked question: How much of the draft is Beane and how much is McBeane. IF Sean has a decent amount of say and a new coach either wouldn’t or would then maybe Beane should stay. However, IF the drafting is predominantly Beane then I think he needs to go to. My hunch is, McBeane is a real thing and they are drafting as a duo with close to equal say after the scouts have done their job and presented their info. If this were a similar setup with a new coach, it would take time to flip a roster . It also might pay bigger dividends if done right quickly. There are so many what ifs in this scenario that 🤷‍♂️ . Which is why the clock is ticking LOUDLY based upon Josh’s health and age. As much as I don’t love our current O scheme. I do like that Josh isn’t getting the stuffing beaten out of him.

They aren’t on the Bills so not really a concern to me. Both had Pro Bowl years as rookies and are struggling this year (especially Thomas). Lol, no one is piling on. It’s just calling it what it is. You’re jumping in as one of the Keon Truthers that I described. I’m not sure what there is to be disagreeing with? You responded to a post where I saw, “he has not been good.” I probably should have used the word “disappointment” which is what I think I said in the Keon thread (where this conversation belongs). I did not mean to derail this thread giving props to Kincaid. Do you agree that Keon has failed to meet expectations to this point? If you agree with that, you are, by definition, agreeing that he has been a disappointment.

I think blitzing would have been a mistake in 13 seconds - yes. Do I think they should have squibbed? For sure. Do I think they called the best coverages? No. Although Levi totally misplaying his assignment on the second didn't help. There is no question 13 seconds was coaching failure. That is well established. Again the leap in logic is that the antidote to that is somehow Rex Ryan. That is a classic logical fallacy. The thing we did failed, therefore we must do something else, this is something else, ergo this must be the right plan. There was actually what I considered a pretty reasonable discussion in another thread about what happens next if the Bills fail to meet expectations this year and who the realistic options might be. It seems it got nixed though before I had a chance to contribute. Even as someone who as of right now isn't committed to "Superbowl or regime change" this year I do think it is reasonable to have conversations about alternative options. I don't think it is reasonable to argue Rex Ryan would have won a Superbowl here. That is crazy talk.

Again, I am not disagreeing. I understand that the Giants beating the crap out of Brady and Mahomes running around like a chicken with his head cut off, was predominantly due to inside pass rush married to outside pressure ( and so Beautiful to watch all four times😁) But, in the moment of 13 seconds, can you say that a blitz with man coverage ( on one of the two plays) followed by a squib kick wouldn’t have possibly had a better outcome? No. You can’t. If you do, then we are just arguing to argue.

Rothlisburger in his 3rd year and a very good D and conservative run dominated O. D won them that Super Bowl ( and some BS penalties) D got Cower to a SB with Neil O’ Donnel at QB!!!! Neil Freaking O’ Donnell😜

Have not had a chance to rewatch the game. See a ton of great stuff being at the game, but miss the LOS stuff. What I want to see is how bad were the penalties. Seemed they were thrown every time we had a positive play..maybe coincidence? Pats defense seemed to force Josh to his favorite right side rollout a few times and shut him down. That being said, he seems like he is trying harder to not be Josh, than being Josh. What I mean is he’s trying to be a pocket passer and at times this year he looks a little indecisive doing it and misses out on QB runs he could of had, or wide open receivers downfield. When he does run, again looks indecisive at times and misses on what could be classic Josh runs and gets only a few yards. If they are asking him to be a pocket passer and let the game open for him, that is not how he is wired. Josh needs o be Josh. Let him do what he wants in the moment. With our defensive issues, letting Josh play at his best is imperative.

What beats Brady and Mahomes is rushing four. Not blitzing. You have to be able to get there with four. If you can't you are done for. Whether than is Spags in the 09 Superbowl vs Brady or Fangio in last year's v Mahomes. Rex was a blitz, blitz and blitz again merchant who by the middle of the last decade was out of touch and put of ideas. The Bills are blitzing more this year. How is that working out for them? The "just blitz more" crowd need to get off Madden and come into the real world. There legitmate reasons to be critical of McDermott by the way - the defense has got significantly worse since he helped nudge Leslie Frazier out, the Bills have this annoying tendency in years where the 1 seed is in play to lose stupid games to inferior teams, he hasn't been able to get to a Superbowl and to the extent he is involved in roster building (and that is really Brandon Beane but I believe they are totally aligned on the vision even though the individual choices are Beane's) they have not built the roster the way I would have advocated for. At this stage Sean (and Brandon) should be evaluated year on year in terms of have they maximised what was available to them. All of that is legitimate. But Rex Ryan winning a Superbowl in this decade? Nah. That isn't legtimate. That's a joke. I understand people being frustrated but seriously it is boiling some people's brains.

Philly too. Agree on the lousy games.

Back to “ I’m not sure”. Clearly we are playing a game of what if but your argument of the game passing him by is equally applicable to Sean. Sean being passed by : Josh being the almost sole reason we are where we are. Sean’s schemes being consistently shredded on third and long, year after year vs the assumption that Rex would have played more man and blitzed more. Can we know that Rex’s way would have been better? No. But, I would argue, in the biggest games, pressure is what beat Brady and Mahomes, not two deep shell coverage.