Sisyphean Bills Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 You have to be in it to win it. What makes one think the Bills are adept at identifying coordinators that are ready to lead the franchise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Can't recall where I heard this, online or on the radio, but there is like only one coach ever to win a Super Bowl that was older than 50 years old. That goes along with the re-tread concept as most of these guys after having success with their first team, by the time they make it to their second team, they are already over 50. Hence never win it again. Essentially the point of this was coaching is a young mans game. So what's the secret, have a good group of scouts and front office that signs good players so the young coach can develop and win. Oh please. I'm not sure where you got this from, but Tom Coughlin won it a couple of years ago at age 62 or something. He doesn't seem to have a problem relating to young players. Tom Landry won his second Super Bowl at age 54. How old was Weeb? Mike Schula was young when he had his HC gig and Mike Mangini is young too. Not much success there. Seems Mangini has a hard time relating to young players. I don't think age has as much to with it as does if a guys is a good coach or not. But yeah, good players help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Oh please. I'm not sure where you got this from, but Tom Coughlin won it a couple of years ago at age 62 or something. He doesn't seem to have a problem relating to young players. Tom Landry won his second Super Bowl at age 54. How old was Weeb? Mike Schula was young when he had his HC gig and Mike Mangini is young too. Not much success there. Seems Mangini has a hard time relating to young players. I don't think age has as much to with it as does if a guys is a good coach or not. But yeah, good players help. I think he was referring to this. See "Undeniable truth #2": http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/columns/s...patriots/090925 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NyQuil Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Until the team gets a football guy as a GM instead of a public relations person the franchise is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think he was referring to this. See "Undeniable truth #2": http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/columns/s...patriots/090925 I don't think the Bills should make their next coaching decision based on what some sportswriter says. Good thing for the Giants they didn't decide not to hire Coughlin based on this. Besides, I just want the Bills to hire a coach who can turn us from NFL joke to a team relevant in the NFL and get into the playoffs within a year or two. Should be doable with the players we have as a base. Once we get there we can get picky about hiring a coach who can win a Super Bowl. Marty Schottenhiemer won 14 games at an age way over 55. Looks like Bill Bellyache still knows how to win games at age 58. Nice bar room talk, but not too relevant for making coaching decisions in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 So you're saying he was more Jauron-like in his second season in Washington? I wouldn't go that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Can't recall where I heard this, online or on the radio, but there is like only one coach ever to win a Super Bowl that was older than 50 years old. That goes along with the re-tread concept as most of these guys after having success with their first team, by the time they make it to their second team, they are already over 50. Hence never win it again. Essentially the point of this was coaching is a young mans game. So what's the secret, have a good group of scouts and front office that signs good players so the young coach can develop and win. Wherever you heard it, it's wrong - Vince Lombardi, Weeb Ewbanks, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs, George Seifert, & Bill Belicheat* were all over 50 when they won Superbowls - there are probably others. (And our own Marv Levy was well into his 60's and on his 2nd stint as an NFL head coach when he got us there 4 consecutive years - if that counts for anything.) And it was the other way around with Belicheat* - he was a disaster in his first HC job with the Browns, but (if you discount the cheating* thing) got it right the 2nd time around with the Cheatriettes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Weeb won the whole thing with two teams. Yeah, one Super Bowl and one AFL championship. Doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Oh please. I'm not sure where you got this from, but Tom Coughlin won it a couple of years ago at age 62 or something. He doesn't seem to have a problem relating to young players. Tom Landry won his second Super Bowl at age 54. How old was Weeb? Mike Schula was young when he had his HC gig and Mike Mangini is young too. Not much success there. Seems Mangini has a hard time relating to young players. I don't think age has as much to with it as does if a guys is a good coach or not. But yeah, good players help. How could I have forgotten Landry - and especially Coughlin's Giants humiliating Belicheat*, Tommy Bündchen*, and the Cheatriettes*??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I was watching tv where a fellow was making that argument and pointed out that the two hottest co-ordinators in the NFL right now were Mike Mullarkey and Gregg Williams. I think I'll pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 SUPER BOWL?!? SUPER BOWL?!? at this point i just want to be competitive with the other teams in our division and not be an embarrassment to the NFL and the fans of Buffalo. i'll take a wild card spot. heck, ill take a 3-3 record in the division. "super bowl" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 25 coaches have won the big one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super...ng_Head_Coaches Still with the same team: Tomlin, Coughlin, Belichick, which leaves 22 possibilities. Cowher, Dungy, Gruden, Billick, Shanahan, Switzer, Gibbs, Bill Walsh, Noll, Landry, Madden, and Ewbank didn't coach again after their SB victory. That leaves only 11 guys who had a chance. Now remember that McCafferty and Lombardi died after only one season at their new job. And after that, remember that Shula didn't actually have a shot at a second victory, because even though he got to SBs with two different teams, he lost with the first team. He didn't win till he got to Miami and he never coached again after Miami. So, that's only eight guys who had a legit shot at the second crown: Stram, Flores, Ditka, Parcells, Seifert, Jimmy Johnson, Holmgren, and Vermeil. Looked at that way, when you realize that Parcells and Holmgren actually did make it back to the big game, you start thinking that getting a SB winning coach is a damn good gamble. Eight SB winners had a shot with another team (excluding McCafferty and Lombardi for the reasons I stated above). Two of them got back there though neither won it. Those are sensational odds. Can you imagine randomly picking another group of eight coaches and coming up with two SB appearances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I was watching tv where a fellow was making that argument and pointed out that the two hottest co-ordinators in the NFL right now were Mike Mullarkey and Gregg Williams. I think I'll pass. That was Mortensen plugging his "boy" Donahoe's only HC hires. Please.... The only reason I'd want the Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren types is that they can also be a GM. They're football guys, unlike the marketing whiz that is Russ Brandon. I normally don't like a coach also being GM, but I'd make an exception for the Bills right now. That said, there are coaches to be had...maybe not the big names mentioned above, but there will be coordinators available. Tim Graham said this and I believe it - there are only 32 of these opportunities available. If a young coordinator is available (or even one not young, but has never been a head coach), they'll be willing to take on the challenge, no matter what team comes calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 25 coaches have won the big one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super...ng_Head_Coaches Still with the same team: Tomlin, Coughlin, Belichick, which leaves 22 possibilities. Cowher, Dungy, Gruden, Billick, Shanahan, Switzer, Gibbs, Bill Walsh, Noll, Landry, Madden, and Ewbank didn't coach again after their SB victory. That leaves only 11 guys who had a chance. Now remember that McCafferty and Lombardi died after only one season at their new job. And after that, remember that Shula didn't actually have a shot at a second victory, because even though he got to SBs with two different teams, he lost with the first team. He didn't win till he got to Miami and he never coached again after Miami. So, that's only eight guys who had a legit shot at the second crown: Stram, Flores, Ditka, Parcells, Seifert, Jimmy Johnson, Holmgren, and Vermeil. Looked at that way, when you realize that Parcells and Holmgren actually did make it back to the big game, you start thinking that getting a SB winning coach is a damn good gamble. Eight SB winners had a shot with another team (excluding McCafferty and Lombardi for the reasons I stated above). Two of them got back there though neither won it. Those are sensational odds. Can you imagine randomly picking another group of eight coaches and coming up with two SB appearances? Exactly. It pays to have someone that knows what they are doing. 25 coaches out of 449 have won a Super Bowl versus 2 out of 8 have gone back with a new team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 1. Needs to wear a headset 2. Needs a pulse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I would just like to see someone with some emotion.. someone that gets fired up.. I personally like Jon Gruden.. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beebe's Kid Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Playoffs? You wanna talk about...Playoffs? I agree with the sentiment that a coach with a little fire is the way to go. Gruden would be my second choice, behind Kelly. I think Kelly would be a fantastic HC, purely based on his winning attitude, and his fiery personality. I know he has no experience, but that is better than hiring yesterday's potato salad, simply because he has coached before. Great coaches all had to start somewhere. Gruden is a more realistic, less sentimental choice. He had great teams is Oakland and TB. He took less than stellar QB's and made them look good. I am a fan of Trent. I think that with the right coaching this kid (he is a kid) could be a good to great QB. He may not possess the arm strength of Kelly, but Dilfer got two different teams to the big game without any real "A" skills. He just didn't make mistakes. I do think that Trent could be better than Dilfer, and again, if when his confidence was shaken, it would be great to see somebody build him up, instead of making that face that Richard only makes...he only has one, so the corpse look is his retort to everything. I just guess that if Trent threw a pick...I would like to see somebody grab him by the facemask and tear him up about why it happened, and how to prevent it again. Instead, what our 3rd year QB gets is to walk off in a shower of boos, from 70.000 that couldn't hold his jock as an athlete, and left alone to sit on the bench and let his self-confidence be further flushed down the toilet. Imagine if every time you made a mistake you had to sit alone, while 70,000 of your closest friends screamed how bad you sucked... just saying. I can only imagine what a coach with a set of noots, a little pride, or for that matter a pulse would had done to that locker room after the debaucle on Sunday... If we would have put Gruden through that he would have killed somebody, figuratively of course, not Orenthal or Ray Lewis kill. I firmly believe that this team, pre injuries (possibly aided by a puss training camp) was a playoff team... I think the talent was there, but the lack of leadership has them pointing fingers and searching for answers. A head coach with a little fortitude would have had us running like a raped ape all over Cleveland...they would have been scared to lose after the ass reaming they got in Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 How many NFL Head Coaches have won Super Bowls with multiple teams??? Interesting, eh? If the goal is to someday win the Super Bowl here, its kind of amazing that most fans' and pundits' plan of attack is for the Bills to do something that no NFL Team has done before.... But its quite a list: The closest is Bill Parcells who lost a Super Bowl with Drew Bledsoe (!) and took the Jets to the AFC Championship Game, I believe, but struck out with Dallas. Dick Vermeil has also come close after losing with the Eagles and then winning with the Rams. Mike Holmgren spent 10 years with Seattle, but lost in his return appearnace to the big game. Meanwhile, the rest of the list of retread Super Bowl-winning coaches is much more ignomious... George Seifert, he of two titles in five years with the 49ers, was a complete diaster in Carolina. We all remember Jimmy Johnson's tenure in Miami more for stomping on breakfast cereals than for winning Super Bowls (he he he....) Joe Gibbs managed just two non-descript playoff berths in four years in his second stint with the Redskins. Mike Ditka was more interested in getting to the golf course on draft day than winning Super Bowls in New Orleans. The Saints, of course, were a graveyard for Hank Stram's coaching career too... And anyone remember Vince Lombardi coaching the Redskins? The real bottom line here is that this teams' problems run much deeper than the Head Coach. Similar to a Quarterback, a Head Coach gets too much credit for victories and too much blame for losses. JDG very strong point. Maybe it is that these coaches get figured out by other coaches and what used to work does not anymore? How about NCAA championships vrs Suerbowls. I want Les Miles - LSU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 25 coaches have won the big one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super...ng_Head_Coaches Still with the same team: Tomlin, Coughlin, Belichick, which leaves 22 possibilities. Cowher, Dungy, Gruden, Billick, Shanahan, Switzer, Gibbs, Bill Walsh, Noll, Landry, Madden, and Ewbank didn't coach again after their SB victory. That leaves only 11 guys who had a chance. Now remember that McCafferty and Lombardi died after only one season at their new job. And after that, remember that Shula didn't actually have a shot at a second victory, because even though he got to SBs with two different teams, he lost with the first team. He didn't win till he got to Miami and he never coached again after Miami. So, that's only eight guys who had a legit shot at the second crown: Stram, Flores, Ditka, Parcells, Seifert, Jimmy Johnson, Holmgren, and Vermeil. Excellent analysis! Of the 6 of 8 who did not return to the SB, there are reasons for most of those. In the case of Ditka, he was not the same w/o Buddy Ryan as his DC, even thought they couldn't stand each other. Seifert inherited everything in place in SF and few would consider him a super coach. Vermeil was quite old when he coached again after winning with the Rams. Stram was also getting to the end when he went to NO and NO was such a mess he didn't have enough time. Jimmy Johnson was not into staying long with the Fish. The point is a great coach, who is not over the hill, could do wonders for the Bills. Actually at this point a decent journeyman coach who is not too old could probably do wonders for the Bills. But only if they had full football authority. Looked at that way, when you realize that Parcells and Holmgren actually did make it back to the big game, you start thinking that getting a SB winning coach is a damn good gamble. Eight SB winners had a shot with another team (excluding McCafferty and Lombardi for the reasons I stated above). Two of them got back there though neither won it. Those are sensational odds. Can you imagine randomly picking another group of eight coaches and coming up with two SB appearances? Excellent analysis! Of the 6 of 8 who did not return to the SB, there are reasons for most of those. In the case of Ditka, he was not the same w/o Buddy Ryan as his DC, even thought they couldn't stand each other. Seifert inherited everything in place in SF and few would consider him a super coach. Vermeil was quite old when he coached again after winning with the Rams. Stram was also getting to the end when he went to NO and NO was such a mess he didn't have enough time. Jimmy Johnson was not into staying long with the Fish. The point is a great coach, who is not over the hill, could do wonders for the Bills. Actually at this point a decent journeyman coach who is not too old could probably do wonders for the Bills. But only if they had full football authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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