Tim Graham on TO

[Doc]

Gee, John--exactly where in my post that you reference do I put TO's thoughts into words?

 

What are your thoughts about TO's past relationship with his teams, his fans and the press? Have they changed since you have been covering him in Buffalo?

 

And Loyaltothegame:

 

You missed the point---the guys I mentioned don't get taken on by the press not because they play on "media darling teams", but because they keep their mouths shut and play the game.

 

Moss was ridiculed by the press for his childish behavior/legal problems--and rightly so. He was also widely called out by many for absolutely dogging it in Oakland--where he was a pathetic quitter. Since he left for NE, he's done nothing to interest the salacious aspects of the press. He's kept his nose clean and his mouth shut, and just played the game.

 

Get it now?

Doh!

 

But funny how you were so willing to believe Moss could change, and TO cannot. Then again, knowing you, it's not a surprise. I'm sure you'll no doubt spin how Moss (who has been in the league 2 years fewer than TO, and is currently on his 3rd team) is on his 4th team after the 2010 season, if not sooner.

[Delete This Account]

Gee, John--exactly where in my post that you reference do I put TO's thoughts into words?

 

What are your thoughts about TO's past relationship with his teams, his fans and the press? Have they changed since you have been covering him in Buffalo?

upon T.O.'s arrival, i elected to give him the benefit of the doubt and see for myself how he acted, what he said, and then make up my own mind about him. so far, he has done or said nothing that would be considered disruptive. in fact, he's more often than not gone out of his way to stay out of the fray when it comes to the Bills, and also spoken up in favor of numerous players, and particularly the defense.

he has a past, there's no doubt about that, but his present behavior doesn't exactly equate with his reputation as a divisive figure.

 

you have been consistently been the one to provide no benefit of the doubt in regards to Owens, and have persistently brought up his past, while showing some Karnac ability to actually know what Owens is thinking and meaning.

 

jw

[Mr. WEO]

Doh!

 

But funny how you were so willing to believe Moss could change, and TO cannot. Then again, knowing you, it's not a surprise. I'm sure you'll no doubt spin how Moss (who has been in the league 2 years fewer than TO, and is currently on his 3rd team) is on his 4th team after the 2010 season, if not sooner.

"Doc"--if Moss is dogging it, and the press wants to call him on it---I have no problem with that. I have been consistent with my criticism on Moss in this regard---and you absolutely know this, but pretend otherwise. It doesn't change the fact that he hasn't (until 9/28, apparently) given the press much to talk about---no reality show, no public house hunting follies, no goofy getups and "tense" press conferences, no opinions on poor Mick Vick's harsh treatment by Goodell...

 

I never said Moss "could" change, I'm simply noting that he did change. You understand the difference don't you? Maybe TO will change, but I think even you know where this is headed if the Bills continue to decompose.

 

 

jw,

 

Again, I haven't spoken for TO (you give now examples), but I am simply reiterating an opinion I share with others.

 

 

As far as TO's talent, I certainly respect his accomplishments and, like everyone else here, am anticipating some big contribution to this offense. But his past is what he has created in a very deliberate way. Why do I need to give him "the benefit of the doubt"? I want him to catch passes. I don't need to pretend his past is a fabrication of the press (like many here are satisfied with doing) or that, because he wears a Bills uniform, everyone else is misinterpretting his behavior.

 

You have made it clear that you have reserved judgement on TO's past based on your relationship with him here in Buffalo--and perhaps you have a soft spot for impetuous behavior. But don't you think that writers in Philly and Dallas said the same thing when he arrived at their doorsteps?

 

The hypocrites are those cannot answer the simple question regarding their thoughts of TO before he put on the Bills uni (or, what they would say if he wore a fins or pats or jets jersey)---no need to say, perhaps--the answer is clear. Also, many of these same posters repeatedly assured us all that TO never had caused any problems in his first year on a new team (even though this is untrue).

 

What will they say when that again proves false? We already know the answer....."It doesn't matter, he's right to lash out at his teammates, coaches, etc."

[loyal2dagame]

Doh!

 

But funny how you were so willing to believe Moss could change, and TO cannot. Then again, knowing you, it's not a surprise. I'm sure you'll no doubt spin how Moss (who has been in the league 2 years fewer than TO, and is currently on his 3rd team) is on his 4th team after the 2010 season, if not sooner.

 

thanks doc, you made my point for me.

 

double standard

[loyal2dagame]

And Loyaltothegame:

 

You missed the point---the guys I mentioned don't get taken on by the press not because they play on "media darling teams", but because they keep their mouths shut and play the game.

 

Moss was ridiculed by the press for his childish behavior/legal problems--and rightly so. He was also widely called out by many for absolutely dogging it in Oakland--where he was a pathetic quitter. Since he left for NE, he's done nothing to interest the salacious aspects of the press. He's kept his nose clean and his mouth shut, and just played the game.

 

Get it now?

 

harrison was implicated in the shooting death of a person. yet you hear more about t.o's attitude.

 

rice complained and pouted alot while in oakland and seattle- got a pass though because it was jerry rice.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Instead of focusing of the motives of the reporters off screen, one can watch the video of Owens and see his body language and what he says. He never assigns blames or accuses his teammates of anything. He does say the problem is lack of execution. He repeatedly says the offense is what it is. That could be construed as throwing Van Pelt under the bus, but that response is punctuated with "What do you think?" responses, which Owens explains are his feelings that the media will construe whatever it wants from whatever he says or doesn't say; and, to call a spade a spade, many of the talking heads do exactly that when it comes to T.O. Finally, he also says a couple times that they lost and that they need to get back to work for next week.

 

He's a superstar so he has to come out and address questions. He did that. But, he is visibly upset. Is it with the media? With the streak? Or is it with losing? Some media heads somehow came away that he was only upset about his streak ending, probably because that was the first question asked rather than he was upset with losing games and the poor execution of the offense as he actually says later in the interview.

 

If this wasn't Owens, this would be a total non-story. He's far from the first guy to give a lame, evasive interview. Belichick, for example, has often given press conferences where he ducks questions and provides useless answers. He's famous for it in fact.

[Doc]

"Doc"--if Moss is dogging it, and the press wants to call him on it---I have no problem with that. I have been consistent with my criticism on Moss in this regard---and you absolutely know this, but pretend otherwise. It doesn't change the fact that he hasn't (until 9/28, apparently) given the press much to talk about---no reality show, no public house hunting follies, no goofy getups and "tense" press conferences, no opinions on poor Mick Vick's harsh treatment by Goodell...

 

I never said Moss "could" change, I'm simply noting that he did change. You understand the difference don't you? Maybe TO will change, but I think even you know where this is headed if the Bills continue to decompose.

The thing is, Moss didn't change. He merely had one record-breaking season in 2007 (yet his team didn't win the SB, thus he's not a "champeen" like Harrison, and he was hardly "crestfallen" afterwards) and people were duped into thinking he'd changed. And, if you were watching, him "dogging-it" go back to last season, but his excuse was Brady being out.

 

The fact that you're even defending Moss at all, given his "thuggery" dating back to his high school days, and in light of your opinions on Lynch and Hardy, is curious as well. Although I've come to expect that lack of consistency in you. Better to save your scorn for a player who plays great on the field, stays clean off it, but who brings attention to himself. Not that you were a fan of Garcia and McNabb before TO called them out, while it's just Romo and his BFF Witten, the Cowboys' offense, and Romo in particular, amazingly look bad.

 

Moss has zero personality. Hence the reason no one is asking his opinion of Vick, asking him to do reality shows, etc. Or maybe they're afraid of him running them over in his car?

 

And as I've repeatedly told you, there is nothing TO can do to the team even if he were to go postal. Which he hasn't and won't, because he has guys like Evans (who doesn't particularly care for Trent and isn't shy about implying that, but who also won't get roasted for saying so) and Jackson to make controversial statements for him. This was the perfect opportunity for him to call the organization "classless" for not getting him a catch and extending his catch streak. Instead all anyone can talk about is how he was antagonistic towards them.

[BillsfaninFl]

Interesting comments by someone who actually has spoken to TO and covered him.

 

Poor, poor TO. No one understands him in the media (well, almost no one....).

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...s-own-martyrdom

 

I think it's the opposite. Everyone understands him. And everyone not in denial understands why he is here.

The Bills brought him in to quiet the grumbling of the fans who are beginning to realize they are being taken for a ride. T.O. is here because his manager advised him to take any job he can get and show that he can play on a team without being a cancer to their morale. (That's why he's keeping his mouth shut.) Without a year of behavior, there will be no more big paydays for Owens. The reporters know he is "on parole" and would love to make him crack. T.O. would like to have a super year to make teams feel that they NEED him and will pay the price to get him. He has no plans to resign with the Bills and they have no plans to try to sign him. The Bills are not rebuilding, they are coasting until the inevitable sale of the team.

 

Shoot all the arrows you wish guys, but deep down you know it's true.

[spartacus]

I think it's the opposite. Everyone understands him. And everyone not in denial understands why he is here.

The Bills brought him in to quiet the grumbling of the fans who are beginning to realize they are being taken for a ride. T.O. is here because his manager advised him to take any job he can get and show that he can play on a team without being a cancer to their morale. (That's why he's keeping his mouth shut.) Without a year of behavior, there will be no more big paydays for Owens. The reporters know he is "on parole" and would love to make him crack. T.O. would like to have a super year to make teams feel that they NEED him and will pay the price to get him. He has no plans to resign with the Bills and they have no plans to try to sign him. The Bills are not rebuilding, they are coasting until the inevitable sale of the team.

 

Shoot all the arrows you wish guys, but deep down you know it's true.

 

why else gut your OL to save the huge money of Dockery, Peters and Walker's contract and not spend a dime of it on replacing them (let alone improving the OL)

[Buftex]

I am well on record as thinking that bringing Terrell Owens was a stupid move. Not because I don't think the player is talented, and not because I necessarily think he is an a-hole...just that he brings controversy where ever he goes. I do think most of it is media generated, I think Tim Grahams article is ridiculous... but, I am not a member of the media... I don't know how anyone who saw/listened to that entire press conference could come away thinking that Owens provoked this... the media (sorry, resident god Tim Graham included) don't seem to realize sometimes, that we, the fans (their readers) don't need them to put our thoughts into place for us.

 

I could care less if Owens ever made a comment, I don't feel like he owes me any explanation of any kind. I could care less if a media member is sore with him, because he doesn't want to say anything. I am finding it more and more difficult to care what any media people say about sports... don't even get me started on "father of the year, media knighted class act" Tony Dungy... screw 'em all! Sports and journalism no longer co-exist....

[Delete This Account]

jw,

 

Again, I haven't spoken for TO (you give now examples), but I am simply reiterating an opinion I share with others.

 

 

As far as TO's talent, I certainly respect his accomplishments and, like everyone else here, am anticipating some big contribution to this offense. But his past is what he has created in a very deliberate way. Why do I need to give him "the benefit of the doubt"? I want him to catch passes. I don't need to pretend his past is a fabrication of the press (like many here are satisfied with doing) or that, because he wears a Bills uniform, everyone else is misinterpretting his behavior.

 

You have made it clear that you have reserved judgement on TO's past based on your relationship with him here in Buffalo--and perhaps you have a soft spot for impetuous behavior. But don't you think that writers in Philly and Dallas said the same thing when he arrived at their doorsteps?

 

The hypocrites are those cannot answer the simple question regarding their thoughts of TO before he put on the Bills uni (or, what they would say if he wore a fins or pats or jets jersey)---no need to say, perhaps--the answer is clear. Also, many of these same posters repeatedly assured us all that TO never had caused any problems in his first year on a new team (even though this is untrue).

 

What will they say when that again proves false? We already know the answer....."It doesn't matter, he's right to lash out at his teammates, coaches, etc."

WEO, a very thoughtful post that sheds light on gray areas in this whole debate. and that's all i've every requested, that there be provided certain nod of respect to the numbers that T.O. has put up. he's bad (michael jackson reference), but how bad is he?

ok, i respect what my professional colleagues have written about in other places. and i do have a soft spot for impetuous behavior because being a rock n' roller can't be all that bad. i'll now provide nods toward the likes of The Clash, Ramones, Steve Earle and my 'Mats.

 

however, in this instance i think that Terrell has an easy out in that the Bills offense is so inept that it can't incorporate one of the most prolific receivers in the game today. that T.O. refused to throw the Bill under the bus after such a forgetful performance, in my opinion, is a tribute to his character, because I don't know how many "diva" receivers -- and let's face it, there are numerous out there -- would have bitten their lip on this one.

 

sure, prior to Owens arrival in Buffalo, there was a clear sense that he was a distraction waiting to happen. and yet, and this is important, now that he's here, i'm getting the sense that his ability -- from what i've seen of him in practice and training camp -- is being underused with an offense that's not functioning the way it was envisioned.

 

the way that press conference went, i think many are disappointed that he actually DIDN'T call out some people, because that would've been a more apt description of reality as opposed to the "lame" excuses that were provided.

 

and that's Terrell's fault, too, in my opinion. if he claims to be honest to a fault, then he let a lot of people down on this one.

 

jw

[GrudginglyOptimistic]

I think it's the opposite. Everyone understands him. And everyone not in denial understands why he is here.

The Bills brought him in to quiet the grumbling of the fans who are beginning to realize they are being taken for a ride. T.O. is here because his manager advised him to take any job he can get and show that he can play on a team without being a cancer to their morale. (That's why he's keeping his mouth shut.) Without a year of behavior, there will be no more big paydays for Owens. The reporters know he is "on parole" and would love to make him crack. T.O. would like to have a super year to make teams feel that they NEED him and will pay the price to get him. He has no plans to resign with the Bills and they have no plans to try to sign him. The Bills are not rebuilding, they are coasting until the inevitable sale of the team.

 

Shoot all the arrows you wish guys, but deep down you know it's true.

Whether

 

1. one is entirely cynical of TOs motivations as this post is, or

2. honestly believe that an old dog can learn new tricks (or that an old dog at the end or his career can act quite differently than a new dog just putting his mark on the NFL or a performer near his peak on the way to the HOF), or

3. That even if TO has not changed at all it has been a clear MO of his to be a good teammate and productive player his first year so he can act a fool in later years.

 

It all adds up to TO being a non-story for the media if they are waiting for his own actions to indict him.

 

This has not stopped the media (falsely throwing them into one group, but hey folks who care can prove me wrong by being media folks who publicly distance themselves from their brethren and cisterns who have demonstrably done bad reporting if anyone in the media cares about my humble opinions on this which I doubt they do) from throwing out reports that TO:

 

already was back to his old antics by missing the first Bills voluntary practice (which a: he had no obligation to be at, b: it turns out that the first Bills practice coincided with a long scheduled event honoring TO for some of his previous charitable work, and c: unlike his past habits he actually made pretty regular appearances at the voluntary workouts)

 

had gone out of his way to defend Michael Vick when it turns out that Tim Graham himself who asked TO about Vick said he surprised that his in passing response was interpreted as some TO campaign for Vixk.

 

had his joking remarks in passing that the no huddle O made an old out of shape guy like him work to hard turned into TO launching some sort of campaign against an offense he hated,

 

TO is a jerk from all I have seen.

 

However, he is a jerk who almost certainly do the right thing his first year with the Bills if only because that is his previous MO and if one takes the cynical view of this poster he better fly right for the Bills in an attempt to generate another big FA contract elsewhere.

 

TO is a jerk but the media (in general but we await individual media types to separate themselves from the media lemmings by simply pointing out some clear inaccuracies) really has been worse on this one,

 

Just cause TO was a foul interview after the last game does not mean at all that Jerry Sullivan, Paul Hamilton and the rest of the lemmings are good journalists. In fact on the contrary.

[Booster4324]

WEO, a very thoughtful post that sheds light on gray areas in this whole debate. and that's all i've every requested, that there be provided certain nod of respect to the numbers that T.O. has put up. he's bad (michael jackson reference), but how bad is he?

ok, i respect what my professional colleagues have written about in other places. and i do have a soft spot for impetuous behavior because being a rock n' roller can't be all that bad. i'll now provide nods toward the likes of The Clash, Ramones, Steve Earle and my 'Mats.

however, in this instance i think that Terrell has an easy out in that the Bills offense is so inept that it can't incorporate one of the most prolific receivers in the game today. that T.O. refused to throw the Billunder the bus after such a forgetful performance, in my opinion, is a tribute to his character, because I don't know how many "diva" receivers -- and let's face it, there are numerous out there -- would have bitten their lip on this one.

 

sure, prior to Owens arrival in Buffalo, there was a clear sense that he was a distraction waiting to happen. and yet, and this is important, now that he's here, i'm getting the sense that his ability -- from what i've seen of him in practice and training camp -- is being underused with an offense that's not functioning the way it was envisioned.

 

the way that press conference went, i think many are disappointed that he actually DIDN'T call out some people, because that would've been a more apt description of reality as opposed to the "lame" excuses that were provided.

 

and that's Terrell's fault, too, in my opinion. if he claims to be honest to a fault, then he let a lot of people down on this one.

 

jw

 

Woah, either TSW is paying for John's posts now or he cared enough to use the shift key.

 

Oh and Weo, I actually thought The Senator and Ramius were off base...seems I might be wrong though.

[Doc]

the way that press conference went, i think many are disappointed that he actually DIDN'T call out some people, because that would've been a more apt description of reality as opposed to the "lame" excuses that were provided.

 

and that's Terrell's fault, too, in my opinion. if he claims to be honest to a fault, then he let a lot of people down on this one.

So basically what you're saying is, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Why should he even bother talking to the media at this point? Heck even when he tries to take care of things in private, like that meeting last season he and 2 other Cowboys WR's had with Jason Garrett about Romo's over-reliance on Jason Witten, still the "Werd(er)" got out and he was vilified for it.

[Doc]

BTW, ESPN Countdown just said that TO pays the mandatory fine for not speaking with the media after games because he doesn't want to be a distraction () and it's just easier to pay the fines. They're also thinking of letting him address the media from the lockerroom post-game, instead of having him go up to the podium. Yep, sounds like he hasn't changed.

[pBills]

BTW, ESPN Countdown just said that TO pays the mandatory fine for not speaking with the media after games because he doesn't want to be a distraction () and it's just easier to pay the fines. They're also thinking of letting him address the media from the lockerroom post-game, instead of having him go up to the podium. Yep, sounds like he hasn't changed.

 

 

Good for TO. Don't answer the questions, especially knowing that ESPN is looking for ANYTHING to say bad about him. Again, good for TO.

[Lori]

BTW, ESPN Countdown just said that TO pays the mandatory fine for not speaking with the media after games because he doesn't want to be a distraction () and it's just easier to pay the fines. They're also thinking of letting him address the media from the lockerroom post-game, instead of having him go up to the podium. Yep, sounds like he hasn't changed.

He had the opportunity to speak in the locker room following the first two games. And you can praise/blame the Bills PR department for setting up in the media room last Sunday, because I don't think that was the writers' idea.

 

At least if he's in the locker room, he (probably) won't be kicking any doors open.

[Mr. WEO]

Woah, either TSW is paying for John's posts now or he cared enough to use the shift key.

 

Oh and Weo, I actually thought The Senator and Ramius were off base...seems I might be wrong though.

Booster,

 

Just trying to provoke some thought here. Giving the contrarian opinion. My opinion of TO hasn't changed since he join Buffalo. Great player. Immature man who has cost himself millions because he can't consistently act like a man.

 

If you want to throw in with guys who's main intellectual contribution to this place is to call others "gay", make your bed.

 

 

 

Doc:

 

Thanks for the laugh re: NOW claiming Moss was dogging it last year---and calling ME contradictory. It was only a few months ago that I reminded you that Moss depends on a superior QB to keep him interested. Far from "dogging it" you, in fact, claimed that Moss MADE Cassell appear better than he is.

 

Typical.

[Doc]

He had the opportunity to speak in the locker room following the first two games. And you can praise/blame the Bills PR department for setting up in the media room last Sunday, because it certainly wasn't the writers' idea.

Yeah, that will probably all change now.

At least if he's in the locker room, he (probably) won't be kicking any doors open.

What does that have to do with anything?

[Lori]

What does that have to do with anything?

That's how he entered the interview room last week, by kicking the door open.