Lv-Bills Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 the worst sports cities in America. I mean seriously. I'm watching this Oakland - Dallas game on NFL Network. It's only about 1/4 full. Now granted, it's preseason, but it looks like they are playing a high school football game in there. And it's Dallas to boot. So, you know there are Dallas fans there. This is a city that doesn't draw squat for A's games. They couldn't even sellout their playoff games when they were good a few years back. And the Raiders don't sellout games either. And I'm pretty sure the capacity isn't all that huge. And now, in this game (and again, I know it's preseason), there are gobs of empty seats. Not a smattering, but gobs. My question becomes....why is Oakland never mentioned as a crappy sports town? Why are the A's and Raiders never really seriously threatened to move? I know Al has done this before, but I think that had to do with the crappy stadium situation. The A's never drew well. So, why is this market considered so precious with SF right around the corner? I would think LA would be all over the Raiders as their target to find an existing franchise, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 the worst sports cities in America. I mean seriously. I'm watching this Oakland - Dallas game on NFL Network. It's only about 1/4 full. Now granted, it's preseason, but it looks like they are playing a high school football game in there. And it's Dallas to boot. So, you know there are Dallas fans there. This is a city that doesn't draw squat for A's games. They couldn't even sellout their playoff games when they were good a few years back. And the Raiders don't sellout games either. And I'm pretty sure the capacity isn't all that huge. And now, in this game (and again, I know it's preseason), there are gobs of empty seats. Not a smattering, but gobs. My question becomes....why is Oakland never mentioned as a crappy sports town? Why are the A's and Raiders never really seriously threatened to move? I know Al has done this before, but I think that had to do with the crappy stadium situation. The A's never drew well. So, why is this market considered so precious with SF right around the corner? I would think LA would be all over the Raiders as their target to find an existing franchise, no? i live an hour away...used to live very close--in oakland. crappy facility. very rabid fans. however,in addition to the actual facility being crappy...3/4 of thei fan base has to go over bridges or thru tunnels just to get down to the ghetto to see them. put a facility in a reasonable place and youd get the usual amount of california support for the team....ohhh..and yeah if the teams would actually contend..its been awhile although of course much more recent than the Bills. I have to go over one bridge and thru a tunnel to get there...its a LONG hour.Aint like living in Buffalo where everything is 20 minutes away by freeway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 i live an hour away...used to live very close--in oakland. crappy facility. very rabid fans. however,in addition to the actual facility being crappy...3/4 of thei fan base has to go over bridges or thru tunnels just to get down to the ghetto to see them.put a facility in a reasonable place and youd get the usual amount of california support for the team....ohhh..and yeah if the teams would actually contend..its been awhile although of course much more recent than the Bills. I have to go over one bridge and thru a tunnel to get there...its a LONG hour.Aint like living in Buffalo where everything is 20 minutes away by freeway. Yeah, but you know what......that doesn't really sound any different than Pittsburgh. It's all bridges and tunnels, and nobody stays aways from any of their sports teams really. I hear what you are saying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yeah, but you know what......that doesn't really sound any different than Pittsburgh. It's all bridges and tunnels, and nobody stays aways from any of their sports teams really. I hear what you are saying though. its way different than Pittsburgh..The bay area is about 3 times the size ..and if you dont play it right you can get stuck in bad traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 its way different than Pittsburgh..The bay area is about 3 times the size ..and if you dont play it right you can get stuck in bad traffic. Have you been to Pittsburgh? Cuz I've been to both PIttsburgh and the Bay area. Although not to Oaklands stadium. Yeah, bay area is bigger, but Pittsburgh is awful to navigate. Pittsburgh has the most bridges in a metropolitan area in the country. It also has a ton a tunnels. Traffic around the rushes in Pittsburgh are horrible as everyone gets bottlenecked into two lanes from about 4 or 5 to get through the tunnels to either enter or exit the city. Three Rivers Stadium was also a dump, and that area of the city (at the time) was a slum. It no longer is, but there really still isnt' much there. But Pittsburgh fans draw for their three teams. The fact that anyone goes to Pirate games is amazing considering what a sham their front office is. I'm not really ripping on Oakland, but it doens't really seem like a healthy place to have sports franchises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Not a smattering, but gobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glass To The Arson Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Did you see the Detroit game? Holy cr@p! Nobody was in the stands... watch the replay on nfl.com! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Did you see the Detroit game? Holy cr@p! Nobody was in the stands... watch the replay on nfl.com! I noticed that today too. Amazingly enough though, the Raider game is worse. What's really noticeable about the Raider game is that nobody showed up on the sidelines either. Preseason is painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 My question becomes....why is Oakland never mentioned as a crappy sports town? Possibly because it's just a crappy town, with or without sports, and it does get tons of publicity because of that alone, but you've got a great point. Maybe it's because there are a couple of titles, in different sports, there? Or because neighboring San Francisco had some success (this now is what, 14 years old) in football? The Raiders have fans, but the As are the Pirates of the AL, and the freaking Warriors (yep, Oakland has an NBA team) are so far off the map that no one above even mentioned them. Oakland truly is a crappy sports town. And a crappy town, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Possibly because it's just a crappy town, with or without sports, and it does get tons of publicity because of that alone, but you've got a great point. Maybe it's because there are a couple of titles, in different sports, there? Or because neighboring San Francisco had some success (this now is what, 14 years old) in football? The Raiders have fans, but the As are the Pirates of the AL, and the freaking Warriors (yep, Oakland has an NBA team) are so far off the map that no one above even mentioned them. Oakland truly is a crappy sports town. And a crappy town, period. the As are the Twins.....they have had great success exc for the past 3 yrs.06 AL championship series and tons of contenders in the early 2000s. Warriors=joke. Oakland..YES it is a crappy town. I lived there and can attest to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightinIrishBills Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Buffalo sells out its pre-season games. The team hasn't made the playoffs in ten years, and we still pack the Ralph. For pre-season. Yet there are always nagging rumours about the Bills leaving Buffalo. It's just not right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB2SF Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I have lived in the Bay Area for 20 years, and I can see the Oakland skyline from my desk as I type this, from my house across the bay. I feel like I should defend Oakland somewhat, just as I do for Buffalo when people here (including people from Oakland) bash Buffalo. You're right that Oakland has become a crappy sports town, but I think the people of Oakland are not on the list of reasons why. It's the ownership of the teams that have created the laughing-stocks that we see today. Oakland was a freakin' football mecca in the Madden era (Madden the coach, not Madden the video game), but Al Davis got greedy and moved the team to LA with dreams of becoming the most valuable sports franchise in America. That decision ripped the heart out of the fan base, so when Al's LA dreams didn't pan out and he brought the team back to Oakland, much of the fan base never re-embraced the team. This was compoundd by the string of bad and bizarre ownership decisions made by crazy Al, which, except for a couple good years under Gruden, has left the Raiders with one of the worst cumulative winning percentages of the past decade+. Oakland was also a baseball mecca in the 70s, with ridiculously good and successful teams led by Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, et al. But ownership changes for that franchise led to the past decade+ of "money ball" (spawning the best-selling book and maybe-soon-to-be-movie), which is all about underpaying and looking for raw talent. They've had some success with this approach, but it's ultimately a big F-you to the fan base, who are frustrated with grooming good players who change teams as soon as they hit their peak. Loyalty is impossible in money ball. Oddly, Al Davis has also contributed to the decline of the A's franchise. As an enticement to bring the Raiders back to Oakland, the Coliseum owners agreed to renovate the stadium to make it more football-friendly. This resulted in basically destroying the Coliseum as a good home for baseball, by replacing the awesome center-field area with a monstrosity of grandstand seating for football. A lot of casual A's fans like me decided that their baseball dollars are better spent across the Bay at AT&T Park, which is one of the best baseball stadiums on the planet. Attendance dropped and never recovered. The one team which IMHO is an exception to the crappy-sports-city aspect of Oakland is the Warriors. While they've been near the bottom of the league for a long time, with the exception of a couple years with Baron Davis at the point, the games are actually great entertainment and the team sells out almost all of its games. The run-and-gun offense plus non-existent defense actually makes for a great fan experience with teams like the Lakers, Jazz, Rockets, Mavs, etc making frequent visits. Last year the Warriors were the youngest team in the league and also the highest-scorig team in the league. I go to 5 or 10 Warriors games every season and have no intention of stopping. The place gets loud and boisterous but is still fan-friendly enough for my young kids. Since the OP wanted somebody to tell him of this place they call Oakland, there's my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringMetheHeadofLeonLett Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 The Autumn Wind is a pirate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Buffalo sells out its pre-season games. The team hasn't made the playoffs in ten years, and we still pack the Ralph. For pre-season. Yet there are always nagging rumours about the Bills leaving Buffalo. It's just not right I've said this before, but I'll say it again: move the Raiders back to L.A., the Jags to Toronto, and keep the other 30 teams exactly where they are. This solution would maximize the NFL's representation across all the major viable TV markets in North America while pissing off the least amount of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I've said this before, but I'll say it again: move the Raiders back to L.A., the Jags to Toronto, and keep the other 30 teams exactly where they are. This solution would maximize the NFL's representation across all the major viable TV markets in North America while pissing off the least amount of fans. L.A. is not a "major viable" NFL market. This has been proven over and over. Toronto is likely not viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I wonder if the current economical climate is hurting some of these pre season games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Cold Bruschi Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Dude this is pre season, the raiders have one of the largest national followings of any team. Its hard to remember because they've sucked the last 6 seasons but the Raiders are a proud franchise with an imense following. But also, its California so their football fans are all fair weather anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 I have lived in the Bay Area for 20 years, and I can see the Oakland skyline from my desk as I type this, from my house across the bay. I feel like I should defend Oakland somewhat, just as I do for Buffalo when people here (including people from Oakland) bash Buffalo. You're right that Oakland has become a crappy sports town, but I think the people of Oakland are not on the list of reasons why. It's the ownership of the teams that have created the laughing-stocks that we see today. Oakland was a freakin' football mecca in the Madden era (Madden the coach, not Madden the video game), but Al Davis got greedy and moved the team to LA with dreams of becoming the most valuable sports franchise in America. That decision ripped the heart out of the fan base, so when Al's LA dreams didn't pan out and he brought the team back to Oakland, much of the fan base never re-embraced the team. This was compoundd by the string of bad and bizarre ownership decisions made by crazy Al, which, except for a couple good years under Gruden, has left the Raiders with one of the worst cumulative winning percentages of the past decade+. Oakland was also a baseball mecca in the 70s, with ridiculously good and successful teams led by Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, et al. But ownership changes for that franchise led to the past decade+ of "money ball" (spawning the best-selling book and maybe-soon-to-be-movie), which is all about underpaying and looking for raw talent. They've had some success with this approach, but it's ultimately a big F-you to the fan base, who are frustrated with grooming good players who change teams as soon as they hit their peak. Loyalty is impossible in money ball. Oddly, Al Davis has also contributed to the decline of the A's franchise. As an enticement to bring the Raiders back to Oakland, the Coliseum owners agreed to renovate the stadium to make it more football-friendly. This resulted in basically destroying the Coliseum as a good home for baseball, by replacing the awesome center-field area with a monstrosity of grandstand seating for football. A lot of casual A's fans like me decided that their baseball dollars are better spent across the Bay at AT&T Park, which is one of the best baseball stadiums on the planet. Attendance dropped and never recovered. The one team which IMHO is an exception to the crappy-sports-city aspect of Oakland is the Warriors. While they've been near the bottom of the league for a long time, with the exception of a couple years with Baron Davis at the point, the games are actually great entertainment and the team sells out almost all of its games. The run-and-gun offense plus non-existent defense actually makes for a great fan experience with teams like the Lakers, Jazz, Rockets, Mavs, etc making frequent visits. Last year the Warriors were the youngest team in the league and also the highest-scorig team in the league. I go to 5 or 10 Warriors games every season and have no intention of stopping. The place gets loud and boisterous but is still fan-friendly enough for my young kids. Since the OP wanted somebody to tell him of this place they call Oakland, there's my two cents. Thank You. A solid read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Dude this is pre season, the raiders have one of the largest national followings of any team. Its hard to remember because they've sucked the last 6 seasons but the Raiders are a proud franchise with an imense following. But also, its California so their football fans are all fair weather anyway. It has nothing to do with how successful the franchise has been in the past. They don't sellout regular season home games, AND this preseason game looked like a high school football game in terms of fannies in the seats. Let me put it to you this way......their preseason game last night, looked like games in Foxboro before all of the fair weathered Pats fans jumped on the bandwagon after Parcells took over. Remember when nobody went to games at Sullivan stadium in NE? We all do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Cold Bruschi Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 As I recall a few bills games got blacked out in 06. Pats have sold out every year since 93. And I was born in '86 what do I care what the fans were like before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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