Steely Dan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Enjoy. He sounded good and Brown was pretty hard on him. Here is to hoping he really does make a significant change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteBills4ever Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Yeah Brown really said it all about the dog fighting charges, the beating, electrocuting, shooting and even drowning of the dogs, didnt know it was that bad... Anyway with all this guy has lost because of his actions, I think he will be highly motivated to get it all back when he has a chance to step on the field, we'll see what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Yeah Brown really said it all about the dog fighting charges, the beating, electrocuting, shooting and even drowning of the dogs, didnt know it was that bad... Anyway with all this guy has lost because of his actions, I think he will be highly motivated to get it all back when he has a chance to step on the field, we'll see what happens... There was a moment or two where it looked like Brown wanted to jump him. In any case, as your post points out, there are few who can say he wasn't really that involved now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Curt Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I think Mike Vick is on the road to recovery, I think he had a great interview. He did not run from questions and he was honest. I believe the reason so many people are upset is because dog fighting was not a well known practice. As the director of the humane society stated, there are thousands of others who dog fight. Mick Vick is not a devil or evil, he was just desensitized to dog fighting because that is what he grew up doing. I know quite a few people who dog fight (including family members) and I never thought it was that bad of a practice to be honest with you because it was just what people did where I grew up. The east and west sides of Buffalo has plenty of dog fighting going on. I also think this has become a racial debate as well. Black people who I have talk to about the Vick situation do not seem to be in such an up roar about this. I believe that Black people are more concerned about the black on black violence that happens everyday in Urban America. I'm not saying dog fighting is ok, because it is not, but I believe that Black people as a whole are more concerned with the violence that is happening in our communities, and not as concerned with animal cruelty. I am Black and I sometimes wonder about the lack of outrage when there is a drive by shooting or a rape with in the Black communities. This is a whole other subject so I won't get to deep on that subject. This is so much bigger than Mike Vick, we have to look at the problem as a whole and stop trying to blame one person. I don't believe Vick is a psychopath, or a sociopath. I believe he is a product of a certain part society who does not value the life and treatment of animals as maybe the rest of our society does. If his example of going to prison and loosing millions of dollars does not help to control or better yet stop this terrible practice of dog fighting than what will? Some people will never change their opinion of him but I believe him and I think his second chance was deserved, at least for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Call me a cynic but I think this is all a big dance. Vick's people probably paid the ASPCA to have Mike speak out against dog fighting. Vick is a valuable player and rehabbing his image is worth the investment. One curious comment he made was about how he "goofed off" as a player. This is the crux of the Vick pro/con argument. He is one of the most gifted athletes in the NFL but he won't bother to exert himself. He probably never really knew his playbook. Can you imagine what Vick could have done (may still be able to do) if he can develop a work ethic? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I think Mike Vick is on the road to recovery, I think he had a great interview. He did not run from questions and he was honest. I believe the reason so many people are upset is because dog fighting was not a well known practice. As the director of the humane society stated, there are thousands of others who dog fight. Mick Vick is not a devil or evil, he was just desensitized to dog fighting because that is what he grew up doing. I know quite a few people who dog fight (including family members) and I never thought it was that bad of a practice to be honest with you because it was just what people did where I grew up. The east and west sides of Buffalo has plenty of dog fighting going on. I also think this has become a racial debate as well. Black people who I have talk to about the Vick situation do not seem to be in such an up roar about this. I believe that Black people are more concerned about the black on black violence that happens everyday in Urban America. I'm not saying dog fighting is ok, because it is not, but I believe that Black people as a whole are more concerned with the violence that is happening in our communities, and not as concerned with animal cruelty. I am Black and I sometimes wonder about the lack of outrage when there is a drive by shooting or a rape with in the Black communities. This is a whole other subject so I won't get to deep on that subject. This is so much bigger than Mike Vick, we have to look at the problem as a whole and stop trying to blame one person. I don't believe Vick is a psychopath, or a sociopath. I believe he is a product of a certain part society who does not value the life and treatment of animals as maybe the rest of our society does. If his example of going to prison and loosing millions of dollars does not help to control or better yet stop this terrible practice of dog fighting than what will? Some people will never change their opinion of him but I believe him and I think his second chance was deserved, at least for now. Excellent post. I don't agree with all of it but it's a good summary of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloaggie Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Call me a cynic but I think this is all a big dance. Vick's people probably paid the ASPCA to have Mike speak out against dog fighting. Vick is a valuable player and rehabbing his image is worth the investment. One curious comment he made was about how he "goofed off" as a player. This is the crux of the Vick pro/con argument. He is one of the most gifted athletes in the NFL but he won't bother to exert himself. He probably never really knew his playbook. Can you imagine what Vick could have done (may still be able to do) if he can develop a work ethic? PTR He partied too much, obviously. I don't think he could have worked much harder though. If he didn't know the playbook, I think it was just from not being that smart, not from lack of effort. Arthur Blank would not have given Vick the richest contract in the NFL if he had the reputation as not putting in time to learn the playbook and having a good work ethic. Nothing but an excuse for his shortcomings as a QB with the Falcons. The thing that I was disappointed in was him not renouncing the culture of dogfighting. I give him credit, he did admit not being a leader and shutting the operation down, but he was just trying to cover himself and lied to everyone before he was convicted. If he truly wanted to take a step forward in this interview, he would have renounced the culture that encourages dog fighting. I'd want to hear what he says in his talks to kids about dogfighting, then I could say that he is doing something good. I was encouraged that he realizes his actions will speak louder than his words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 I don't see how anyone can come away from that interview with anything but a feeling he's a sociopath who will say anything he needs to. IMO, he's not even playing the contrite criminal very well. He deserved to lose 130 million? I pretty much guarantee that if he still had 130 million in the bank when he came out he wouldn't be donating it all to charity. He says he deserved it but that's such BS IMO. It stinks no matter which way the wind blows. When JB brings up all of the tortures he's done to dogs he sits there emotionless and just says "It was wrong". In fact, "It was wrong" seems to be his stock answer to a lot of stuff. When JB asks him if he knows why he did it he becomes evasive he doesn't answer until JB supplies him with options. "It sickens me to my stomach and I was, you know, the same feeling I'm feeling right now is what people was feeling." He then says he's feeling disgust pure disgust. He could have shut the whole operation down. What kept him going was not being able to say to certain people around him that we can't do this anymore, I'm concerned about my career, I'm concerned about my family. I guess just saying I'll help you find another place to do this but I'm out wasn't an option. He didn't close it down because he didn't want to. "Football doesn't even really matter Y'know" He then says he deserved to lose 130 million dollars. "On the flip side y'know, killing dogs or doing the wrong thing why would, (unintelligible) they don't deserve it." The only way he could get through prison and the only way he could live life was by having faith and believing in a higher power, believing in God. The old I found God see I'm a good guy now cliche. He had several chances to come clean and he lied instead of coming clean. This is a guy who was not remorseful at all about his actions just scared about losing his job, losing endorsements and going to jail. Those are the only reasons, IMO, for his contritions now. He's hoping to rebuild a lot of what he had. The dude has paid media advisors who prepare him for interviews. 'Nuff said. I don't think he'll ever finance another operation or own another fighting dog but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he was caught as a spectator at a fight. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I believe the reason so many people are upset is because dog fighting was not a well known practice. As the director of the humane society stated, there are thousands of others who dog fight. Mick Vick is not a devil or evil, he was just desensitized to dog fighting because that is what he grew up doing. I know quite a few people who dog fight (including family members) and I never thought it was that bad of a practice to be honest with you because it was just what people did where I grew up. The east and west sides of Buffalo has plenty of dog fighting going on. Look, I don't know you, all I know is what you just disclosed about yourself. But !@#$ you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Curt Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Look, I don't know you, all I know is what you just disclosed about yourself. But !@#$ you. What do you mean !@#$ me? Look, I'm just being honest. Dog fighting is a problem in this Country and many people practice it. This is a fact which cannot be denied, and I think the Vick situation is the best thing to ever happen for the awareness of dog fighting. Now maybe more attention can be placed on the prevention of it. Dog fighting is a business, not long ago so was slavery. So a culture is a culture. I can't blame a slave owner for his or her practices because at the time it was what they grew up seeing and doing. Was it wrong? of course. Dog fighting is a culture as well, and it is wrong. What's the difference in the cultures? What about segregation in the Southern States? That was a culture as well. Some people who practiced segregation knew it was wrong but they still did it. Some honestly thought it was acceptable behavior. There are people who really thought dog fighting was ok to do, so don't blame one guy. This is much, much bigger. The entire culture has to be stopped not just one guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I also thought it was a good interview, even though we didn't see all of it. JB grilled him pretty well at times, but also asked him some easy questions. * He said he was disgusted with himself for what he did. Since he was introduced to dog fighting at the age of 8, he was most certainly desensitized to it and it became something that was "normal" to him. How does he suddenly become disgusted with himself when he had been part of this for about 20 years? Which leads me to.... * He said he didn't realize the implications of this until he was in jail (this is probably why he was disgusted with himself). Either he knew it was wrong and was disgusted that he didn't get away with it or it just took getting busted to realize what he was doing. I didn't get any indication from him that he really felt it was wrong all along. * Steely Dan hit the nail on the head - he could have shut the whole operation down, but he didn't want to. He implied that he wasn't strong enough to tell people that he was concerned about his family, career, etc. to shut it down and get out. I think there was something (or more likely someone) else that prevented him from shutting it down. I also think it's interesting that the Humane Society is using him to speak out against dog fighting. I know it's been 2 years, but Vick just got busted for bank rolling the operation and just finished his jail sentence. I've never been in jail, nor do I know anyone close enough to me who has been in prison, but can someone change their morals & ethics that quickly? If someone with the reputation that Tony Dungy has says he has changed his ways, then perhaps I can believe it. My point...I'm still not convinced that Vick himself believed what he did was wrong, so if the Humane Society is using him to speak out against dog fighting, it's a bit conflicting in my mind. I know why they're using him (big name to help speak out against the practice), but I just don't know if I could believe Vick right now. As for the whole "letting him play" thing, there are plenty of people in this world that deserve second chances. We are human and we make mistakes (not always with regards to the law), but I don't think anyone on this board can say for sure whether or not Vick deserves a second chance...unless you're good buddies with him or with someone who knows him. Personally, I don't mind him getting this second chance, but I know that if it was me who bankrolled a dog fighting ring, I wouldn't be able to get another IT job for the rest of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 go to any penitentiary and tell someone when they get out they can get 6 million dollars... they will say anything you want. Talk is very very cheap. Micheal Vick aint shite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I don't see how anyone can come away from that interview with anything but a feeling he's a sociopath who will say anything he needs to. IMO, he's not even playing the contrite criminal very well. He deserved to lose 130 million? I pretty much guarantee that if he still had 130 million in the bank when he came out he wouldn't be donating it all to charity. He says he deserved it but that's such BS IMO. It stinks no matter which way the wind blows. When JB brings up all of the tortures he's done to dogs he sits there emotionless and just says "It was wrong". In fact, "It was wrong" seems to be his stock answer to a lot of stuff. When JB asks him if he knows why he did it he becomes evasive he doesn't answer until JB supplies him with options. "It sickens me to my stomach and I was, you know, the same feeling I'm feeling right now is what people was feeling." He then says he's feeling disgust pure disgust. He could have shut the whole operation down. What kept him going was not being able to say to certain people around him that we can't do this anymore, I'm concerned about my career, I'm concerned about my family. I guess just saying I'll help you find another place to do this but I'm out wasn't an option. He didn't close it down because he didn't want to. "Football doesn't even really matter Y'know" He then says he deserved to lose 130 million dollars. "On the flip side y'know, killing dogs or doing the wrong thing why would, (unintelligible) they don't deserve it." The only way he could get through prison and the only way he could live life was by having faith and believing in a higher power, believing in God. The old I found God see I'm a good guy now cliche. He had several chances to come clean and he lied instead of coming clean. This is a guy who was not remorseful at all about his actions just scared about losing his job, losing endorsements and going to jail. Those are the only reasons, IMO, for his contritions now. He's hoping to rebuild a lot of what he had. The dude has paid media advisors who prepare him for interviews. 'Nuff said. I don't think he'll ever finance another operation or own another fighting dog but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he was caught as a spectator at a fight. JMO I can't thank you enough for the most accurate post in this thread. The sociopath excels at douping those around him which is exactly what Vick has done to not only the members on this board but to Tony Dungy. He is incapable of feeling real emotion or empathy which is why he could use his bare hands to murder and why he he can appear very believable to all the sheeple watching. Sociopaths do not change, Vick is done organizing dog fights but his criminal side will surface again, I absolutely guarantee it. And dont be surprised if its some other sick shitt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I always get a kick out of the holier-than-thou's who wont even admit to and fight tooth and nail to get out for as little as a !@#$ing SPEEDING TICKET...yet Vick did almost two years, lost money than most couldnt make in TEN lifetimes, is on National TV apologizing and offering mea culpas....but somehow, thats "not enough." I dont know if he's "rehabilitated" or not...only time will tell. But I DO know is that the man has paid dealry for his sins and his crime. He did the crime, he did the time. And hes getting the second chance. Lets see what he makes of it....THAT will prove what kind of a person he really is. And Curt.....bully for you for being man enough to admit the flaws in your own character. I don't care what he does with his life. He just does not deserve to be lauded as a performer and his second chance should come far outside the public arena of the NFL. That 60 Min piece was a softball. The "hard" questions were about as fierce as Couric in her Palin interview--just happens that Vick is smarter than Palin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I can't thank you enough for the most accurate post in this thread. The sociopath excels at douping those around him which is exactly what Vick has done to not only the members on this board but to Tony Dungy. He is incapable of feeling real emotion or empathy which is why he could use his bare hands to murder and why he he can appear very believable to all the sheeple watching. Sociopaths do not change, Vick is done organizing dog fights but his criminal side will surface again, I absolutely guarantee it. And dont be surprised if its some other sick shitt. Who knows? What is especially bothersome here is that this sociopath has a set of multibillion dollar enablers in the NFL and E$PN, who are now determined to make him into a comeback hero. So much for a period of respectful mourning and reflection..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Curt Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I always get a kick out of the holier-than-thou's who wont even admit to and fight tooth and nail to get out for as little as a !@#$ing SPEEDING TICKET...yet Vick did almost two years, lost money than most couldnt make in TEN lifetimes, is on National TV apologizing and offering mea culpas....but somehow, thats "not enough." I dont know if he's "rehabilitated" or not...only time will tell. But I DO know is that the man has paid dealry for his sins and his crime. He did the crime, he did the time. And hes getting the second chance. Lets see what he makes of it....THAT will prove what kind of a person he really is. And Curt.....bully for you for being man enough to admit the flaws in your own character. I not on here to admit flaws, I'm don't have any regarding this issue. Everyone is not going to agree with your opinion and be totally outraged by this behavior. I’ll say again, I do not condone dog fighting at all. I don’t think my family members who practice or have practiced dog fighting in the past are better than anyone else, wrong is wrong. When I was growing up I honestly did not think it was so bad. Once I saw it for myself and the damage it does, I changed my mind. It is dangerous because the dogs that survive are vicious and can hurt people. Don’t get me wrong I don’t want an animal to suffer, but I can’t imagine a vicious pit bull attaching a child or anyone else for that matter. As for my character, I’ve been in the Military for almost 13yrs. I’ve served and continue to serve my Country in an honorable matter. Please refrain from questioning my character, especially if you don’t know a thing about me. I grew up in the lower west side, and the east side of Buffalo. I have friends and family members who have been murdered in cold blood; dog fighting is a little lower on the totem pole in my opinion. I want the practice to stop but to ignore it is a cultural problem would be irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 This argument has been made countless times, all across the country. Both sides have valid points and strong opinions... (i happen to think he is scum, but deserved a shot in the league at some point). I dont think anyone should be naive enough to listen to his interviews and point to it and say 'see, he is really sorry'. The guy has 6 million or so reasons to pay lip service to the public and NFL officials. The NFL also has $ millions of reasons they would like to see Vick painted in a comeback story. If he is truly remorseful, lets see if he puts up any of that money or significant effort into reversing his torture of animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I understand your POV...but hes a football player, and a good one. Thats where his talent lies and if the NFL will have him, then why SHOULDNT he play? Put me in the chair of an NFL Owner. His second chance is that he's free and allowed to be a football player, and I would NOT hire him because that's an honor. If he wants a job in the office, that's another story. But I'm selling a product to kids and in good conscience, I wouldn't put a demon on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I always get a kick out of the holier-than-thou's who wont even admit to and fight tooth and nail to get out for as little as a !@#$ing SPEEDING TICKET...yet Vick did almost two years, lost money than most couldnt make in TEN lifetimes, is on National TV apologizing and offering mea culpas....but somehow, thats "not enough." Nice try. Vick was made a millionaire years ago. He squandered most of that (more than most would make in TEN lifetimes) before he was arrested. Other than the returned signing bonus fraction, the vast majority of the money he "lost" was money he hadn't even made yet. And for being such a spectacular moron, he's earned a multimillion dollar contract and a fresh start. And he's earned your symapthy. Sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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