Ralph silenced some posters yesterday

[Alaska Darin]

Ok then, how about that he's a "mouth breather"? Hard to argue that one.

Did anyone mention that there were a few moments when Marv looked like it was past nap time?

Those guys are in a parade that starts at 9:00 in the morning and are pretty much booked up all day. There isn't a single person alive that wouldn't have been exhausted with the schedule they were keeping. I was tired as hell last night and I didn't do half the sh-- they did.

[Alaska Darin]

Imagine if they voted all of the Bills fans into the HOF, what would the bust look like?

 

Probably a 6 pack of Genny pounders and some woodchuck hitting on his sister at halftime.

[Albany,n.y.]

There was an awful lot of revisionist history in that piece.

 

He lucked into hiring Polian because Terry Bledsoe was good enough to die on the job (he should have been fired for gross incompetance) and Polian was the cheap, in-house, candidate.

 

FYI-Terry Bledsoe didn't die, he recovered from his heart attack & was fired. Now it's difficult to find anything on Bledsoe, but in 1992 he was involved in an attempt to start a new team in a new league in Tampa.

[TheChimp]

If the Orange Bowl people had not shot him down, Ralph would have never even come to Buffalo with his team in the first place. I never knew that before he talked about it yesterday.

 

Look, Ralph totally deserved a nod in the HOF for what he did for the AFL-NFL merger and for the financial deals he worked out to keep smaller market teams afloat, even if he was doing both things to further his own cash cow.

 

But he really has done alot of things that can be scrutinized and questioned, when it comes to his management of his team. Which is probably why he had to wait til his 90th year to get inducted.

[copernicus137]

He was talking about how the owners used to cut corners to save money. I wasn't sure whether he was implying that what Halas did was a good idea or not.

 

There was an awful lot of revisionist history in that piece. The AFL owners knew that once Ralph gave his word that was good enough? I can run through a list of names who would argue that statement. Bill Polian was the best Gm the team ever had? Then why isn't he still GM? Cuz the honoree fired him. "They" named the stadium after him? How about he named the stadium after himself.

 

I still contend that Ralph has been instrumental in hiring a litany of poor GMs, poor coaches and has either run off or fired 2 of the best coaches we ever DID manage to get in Saban (twice) and Knox. He lucked into hiring Polian because Terry Bledsoe was good enough to die on the job (he should have been fired for gross incompetance) and Polian was the cheap, in-house, candidate. Good thing he was good. Levy got hired because he was the cheap in-house candidate after RW fired his last brilliant HC in Hank Bullough who the cheap in-house replacement for Kay Stephenson who was the cheap in-house replacement for Knox who left because Ralph would not build him an indoor practice facility. Stephenson was quoted in Relentless as saying the RW "never explained his reasons for selecting me." Kelly didn't come to Buffalo until he had to. The Bills were a Roosevelt Leaks fumble away from the playoffs the previous year. Why wouldn't he sign with Buffalo? Houston paid him more...oh and RW had just had a big flap with Knox who left basically over money. Let us not forget that prior to Knox's arrival the Bills were 5-23 the previous two seasons. Under him the Bills made the playoffs twice and were markedly improved. RW let him walk and they were turning in back to back 2-14s within a year.

 

The Levy/Polian years were an unusual period of stability within the organization and it showed. Nonetheless RW canned Polian over something stupid and the cycle slowly began again. This recent period of Bills football with constant rotating coaches, coordinators and leadership is much more normal than the previous 10/15 years were.

 

So bottom line, thanks for keeping the Bills in Buffalo Ralph but let's not pretend that you were magnanimous about it and didn't put a gun to taxpayers heads on multiple occasions. If we didn't foot the bill for you you would have moved to Seattle 40 years ago. If we didn't foot the bill some more in the 90's it would have been LA, or Jacksonville, or Baltimore. Now it's Toronto. You care so much about the Bills staying in Buffalo you won't even sell the team while you're still alive and have control over who buys it and where they move the team to. Why? because it makes your family more money to let the team's future play out after your death. Thanks Ralph.

 

Last night would have been a perfect venue to announce that because of his dedication to the fans and the city that he reached an agreement to sell majority control to an ownership group led by Kelly, Thomas, other Bills and whichever big money guy will back them (Jacobs?). All the players were present and RW could have brought them up to the deus. Imagine the reaction that would have gotten. What better way to go out than that. HOF induction, all your best players there, surrounded by your fans, announcing to the world that not only have you kept the Bills in Buffalo for 50 years but you have taken the steps necessary to keep there there indefinetly. Hell, keep a minority stake if you want to just in case they win so you get a ring or defray taxes in that way. Sell 50.1% now and 49.9 percent after you die. The tax hit is halved and we all get what we want.

 

Couldn't do that because as always, it's all about the Benjamins, baby.

 

Lengthy diatribes like this make the age of 140 character messages appear brilliant. Nobody ever said the Hall of Fame ceremony was intended to be a realistic, complete, unbiased review of everyone. (that hopefully gets taken care of in the selection process) It’s a day to honor the things that set the individual apart.

[Buftex]

I congratulate Mr Wilson on his Hall of Fame induction. He gave a nice, classy, speech. I won't say he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF, for his contributions to the National Football League. But, I think, as owner of the Bills, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms that can be made. No speech, save announcing that he is selling the franchise to a local interest, which will keep the franchise in Buffalo long after he has passed, is going to change that.

 

Berman gave a great introduction. He was right, the Bills are in Buffalo because of Ralph Wilson. But when Berman boasts, on Mr Wilson's behalf, that he is a man of his word, the only word that Wilson has given to Bills fans (remember, this is an "agreement" with the fans?) was that the Bills will be in Buffalo as long as he is alive. Beyond that? Ralph? No word, no agreement, no commitment...

[JohnC]

Secondly, RW did not name the stadium after himself. The county, with strong urging from Pataki, did that.

 

Where did you get that inaccurate and ridiculous version of how the stadium came to be named after him? That is absolutely wrong. When the stadium was first built the stadium's naming rights were sold to Rich Products. Thus the stadium was named Rich Stadium. The owner was furious. He would not even allow Rich dairy products to be sold in the stadium. If there was a HOF for pettiness he would be a first ballot seclection. When the contract for the naming rights ran out Wilson demanded that he get the naming rights. Thus the stadium he didn't pay for was named after him by him. Instead of the county deservedly receiving naming right payments to defray some of the costs associated with maintaining the stadium, it gets nothing. Pataki had nothing to do with urging the stadium being named after the grumpy owner. It was demanded by the self inflated owner who used his standard not so veiled threats to get his way.

 

Being a loyal fan doesn't mean that one has to write fiction to show undying loyalty to a dismal franchise.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[JohnC]

Secondly, RW did not name the stadium after himself. The county, with strong urging from Pataki, did that.

 

Where did you get that inaccurate and ridiculous version of how the stadium came to be named after him? That is absolutely wrong. When the stadium was first built the stadium's naming rights were sold to Rich Products. Thus the stadium was named Rich Stadium. The owner was furious. He would not even allow Rich dairy products to be sold in the stadium. If there was a HOF for pettiness he would be a first ballot seclection. When the contract for the naming rights ran out Wilson demanded that he get the naming rights. Thus the stadium he didn't pay for was named after him by him. Instead of the county deservedly receiving naming right payments to defray some of the costs associated with maintaining the stadium, it gets nothing. Pataki had nothing to do with urging the stadium being named after the grumpy owner. It was demanded by the self inflated owner who used his standard not so veiled threats to get his way.

 

Being a loyal fan doesn't mean that one has to write fiction to show undying loyalty to a dismal franchise.

[The Dean]

It was demanded by the self inflated owner who used his standard not so veiled threats to get his way.

 

 

Any evidence for that ? I have seen/read/heard nothing that suggests Ralph demanded the stadium carry his name. Back it up, or be gone.

 

The county (not the state or Ralph) has naming rights, and decided on their own (with no pressure from Ralph, from what I have heard) to name the stadium in his honor.

[ThereIsNoDog]

And the fact that Polian was his best GM is just that, a fact.

That Ralph admitted it, after what Polian pulled that was the straw that broke the camel's back, is pretty revealing.

[Bill from NYC]

Anyone who listened to Ralph last night no longer can post the moronic Ralph is senile BS. It's about time for the Ralph is senile posters to admit that Ralph has more on the ball than they do.

 

Ralph has more on the ball than almost anybody, but he is probably more of a money man than a football man.

Either way, I never jumped on Ralph that much. I love his loyalty, but he has hired the wrong people too many times. When he stepped out and hired TD, it was a shame that TD wasn't the same guy from Pittsburgh. I still can't figure out exactly wtf happened to him when he came to Buffalo. Bringing Marv back was a nightmare but again, I look up to and respect loyal people.

All Bills fans are in debt to Mr. Wilson, or so I think.

[Endless Ike]

This thread is starting to suck.

 

She's gone from "suck" to "blow!"

[The Dean]

Ralph has more on the ball than almost anybody, but he is probably more of a money man than a football man.

Either way, I never jumped on Ralph that much. I love his loyalty, but he has hired the wrong people too many times. When he stepped out and hired TD, it was a shame that TD wasn't the same guy from Pittsburgh. I still can't figure out exactly wtf happened to him when he came to Buffalo. Bringing Marv back was a nightmare but again, I look up to and respect loyal people.

All Bills fans are in debt to Mr. Wilson, or so I think.

 

 

Still can't figure out why you think Marv was a nightmare when he improved the talent on the team TD left him. Every objective source I have seen gave/gives his drafts good-to-very good grades. How is that a nightmare?

 

True, he was instrumental in the hiring of DJ, and that hasn't gone well. But he played no part in keeping/extending him, as far as I know.

 

I understand you believe a team should build from the lines out. But are you so stubborn about it you think anyone who does it differently is a "nightmare"?

[Bill from NYC]

Still can't figure out why you think Marv was a nightmare when he improved the talent on the team TD left him. Every objective source I have seen gave/gives his drafts good-to-very good grades. How is that a nightmare?

 

True, he was instrumental in the hiring of DJ, and that hasn't gone well. But he played no part in keeping/extending him, as far as I know.

 

I understand you believe a team should build from the lines out. But are you so stubborn about it you think anyone who does it differently is a "nightmare"?

 

Brian, the record speaks for itself, doesn't it? And, let's not downplay the disaster of Levy hiring Jauron, OK? "Hasn't gone well?" It is/was a full blown disaster, as was bringing back Marv. Brian, please tell me who else would have hired Marv or Jauron. Will you do that? These are people that nobody wanted. Nobody.

 

Again, we all owe Mr. Wilson. I will never dispute this. His loyalty is something to be praised. Levy as a GM and Jauron as a coach are gut wrenching disasters, but they are nice people too. That counts for something, right?

[The Dean]

Brian, the record speaks for itself, doesn't it? And, let's not downplay the disaster of Levy hiring Jauron, OK? "Hasn't gone well?" It is/was a full blown disaster, as was bringing back Marv.

 

 

What, other than DJ, makes Marv a "disaster"? His drafts were at least "good", I think they were better than that. Didn't he do a better job than TD, in his final days with the Bills?

 

Marv improved the team through the draft, and DJ for all his faults, actually improved the team from what he was given in 2005.

 

Toward the end of 2006, the team really looked as though it was going to be very good. 2007 was a disaster from an injury perspective, but the team managed to win 7 games despite them. I think DJ deserves at least a C+, or higher, for those two years.

 

Last year was an unmitigated disaster, from a coaching perspective, IMO. I thought his extension was the team's biggest mistake so far, since the dismissal of TD. But Marv had nothing to do with that.

 

EDIT: As to the record, Bill, I know you are smart enough to know the record needs to be put in perspective. The Bills have been rebuilding and IMPROVED their record from 2005. Many teams take a step backwards when rebuilding.

[Saudi Arabia Rob]

Even his bust has its mouth open, thought that was funny.

 

In truth Ralph did much better than I expected he would. For 90 he is amazing.

 

 

One question...what was the point of telling us about games in Chicago where linemen were posted in the EZs to retreive footballs? I must have been drifting in and out, but I couldn't figure that out.

 

He wrote out his entire speech, so it must have been some "approved" drifting...since his wife apparently helped him.

[Bill from NYC]

What, other than DJ, makes Marv a "disaster"? His drafts were at least "good", I think they were better than that. Didn't he do a better job than TD, in his final days with the Bills?

 

Marv improved the team through the draft, and DJ for all his faults, actually improved the team from what he was given in 2005.

 

Toward the end of 2006, the team really looked as though it was going to be very good. 2007 was a disaster from an injury perspective, but the team managed to win 7 games despite them. I think DJ deserves at least a C+, or higher, for those two years.

 

Last year was an unmitigated disaster, from a coaching perspective, IMO. I thought his extension was the team's biggest mistake so far, since the dismissal of TD. But Marv had nothing to do with that.

 

EDIT: As to the record, Bill, I know you are smart enough to know the record needs to be put in perspective. The Bills have been rebuilding and IMPROVED their record from 2005. Many teams take a step backwards when rebuilding.

 

It doesn't matter how smart either of us is. Marv threw away a golden opportunity to get extra picks and build a solid team. Why? For Donte Whitner. You can't snap your fingers and make this stupid mistake go away.

A GM with a better grasp on building a football team would have never done something so stupid, and this has nothing to do with me (or you) being stubborn, or blindly loyal for that matter.

[The Dean]

It doesn't matter how smart either of us is. Marv threw away a golden opportunity to get extra picks and build a solid team. Why? For Donte Whitner. You can't snap your fingers and make this stupid mistake go away.

A GM with a better grasp on building a football team would have never done something so stupid, and this has nothing to do with me (or you) being stubborn, or blindly loyal for that matter.

 

 

It's crazy you think Marv did that on his own, and that nobody else would ever do that. He was surrounded by experienced football men, and his process was one of consensus...they worked as a team. I'm sure if the others though it was that outrageous, they would have said something, and Marv would have done something else.

 

Bill, this is really about your unabashed hatred of Marv, and nothing else. You refuse to deal with context, and acknowledge the way the Bills operated under Marv. You also seem to give him no credit for anything positive that was done under his watch.

 

There is really no way to discuss this with you, when you take such a intractable stance.

[Bill from NYC]

But you see....you are wrong. Everything I know about Marv tells me that he is a good man. I don't "hate" Marv, or even Jauron. But, that doesn't make them good at buiding a football team. They are lousy at doing that.....building a football team, not being human beings.

[Stenbar]

Absolutely pathetic. Way to miss the point entirely. RW WAS NOT inducted because he owns the Buffalo Bills. He was inducted for his contributions to the game. If you deny he hasn't made any, you refuse to embrace the obvious or you are COMPLETELY bereft of any historical knowledge.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Historical knowledge? What contributions..Show me...