3-4 defense in Buffalo?

[offde-fence]

I came across an article, albeit brief, on how Dick Jauron and Jack Delrio spoke to their respective teams this off-season about mixing in a form of the 3-4 defense, on a limited basis. If my memory serves me, it was in order to improve their pass defense. Does anyone know why that might help us this year, in regards our personnel and what, specifically, would be benificial about our guys lining up that way? Would it be as a means to get Maybin out there, as OLB, I'd assume? Who would we have lining up, and do we have appropriate guys for that package? Maybe Harris as another LB in that group, or a few of our speedier, smaller LB's (safeties on other teams), for coverage purposes?

[Billistic]

I came across an article, albeit brief, on how Dick Jauron and Jack Delrio spoke to their respective teams this off-season about mixing in a form of the 3-4 defense, on a limited basis. If my memory serves me, it was in order to improve their pass defense. Does anyone know why that might help us this year, in regards our personnel and what, specifically, would be benificial about our guys lining up that way? Would it be as a means to get Maybin out there, as OLB, I'd assume? Who would we have lining up, and do we have appropriate guys for that package? Maybe Harris as another LB in that group, or a few of our speedier, smaller LB's (safeties on other teams), for coverage purposes?

 

You need a talented front seven to play the 3-4. The powerful NT takes on a center and guard, while the two DEs occupy the tackles and, hopefully another G. The outside linebackers are usually big and fast, and bring pressure from the edge. The DEs and OLBs also can run all kinds of stunts, driving the OTs crazy. Seymour and Adalius Thomas with the Pats are a good example. DeMarcus Ware of the cowboys is probably the best OLB today. No O-linemen get to the second level, so the two ILBs make tons of tackles (see Mayo).

 

The Bills are lacking the talent in every position, except for maybe Stroud as NT, which he never played, and Posluszny at ILB. Mitchell might suffice at OLB, and as you say, Maybin might qualify there also. Forget the Bills DEs.

[Steely Dan]

I came across an article, albeit brief, on how Dick Jauron and Jack Delrio spoke to their respective teams this off-season about mixing in a form of the 3-4 defense, on a limited basis. If my memory serves me, it was in order to improve their pass defense. Does anyone know why that might help us this year, in regards our personnel and what, specifically, would be benificial about our guys lining up that way? Would it be as a means to get Maybin out there, as OLB, I'd assume? Who would we have lining up, and do we have appropriate guys for that package? Maybe Harris as another LB in that group, or a few of our speedier, smaller LB's (safeties on other teams), for coverage purposes?

 

It's another wrinkle teams have to prepare for. It gives them a bigger advantage when taking on an offense. If it works out the way they want, then I think it's a great idea.

[bluv]

With our current personell we wont got to a full blown 3-4; all they will do is use Maybin as a standup DE in key situation. The "elephant" position made famous in San Fran in the 80's by Fred Dean and Charles Haley is similar. They will use Maybin similar to how USC used Cushing and Matthews in their system; here is a good read:

 

http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/usc_...nt_defense.html

 

This won't become our base D unless Maybin is such a force from it that he cant leave the field. He could use his speed and athletism to play the run on the way to rushing the QB vs maybe struggling at the point of attack on the LOS lined up against huge OT.

[Cson76]

The biggest thing on 3-4 defenses is you need large DE's to help hold the line. Then, you need fast pass rushing OLB's like Joey Porter to get pressure on the QB. Our personel is 4-3 based, it would be a tough switch

[John Adams]

No way. Thought they might switch to 3-4 in spots to keep the offense guessing, don't expect it much. The Bills DEs don't command the necessary double team and the OLBs haven't shown an ability to get the the QB. Stroud might be talented enough to be the NT but he's a bit late in his career to be making changes like that.

[Justice]

We're lacking a NT more than anything else if we indeed wanted to switch to a 3-4 on occasion. If the Bills wanted to go 3-4 under the personnel we have now, I'd say Denney and Stroud would be the ends, Kelsay and Maybin would be the OLB's and Mitchell and Pos would be the MLBers.

 

I'm not sure how Kelsay would work out at OLB, but he would be a better fit there than Schobel would be at this point in his career.

[TheBuffaloBills]

I'd love a 3-4 D. This is what I'd do:

 

 

LOLB- Kelsay (I hate him, but I think he could do a good job of controlling a small zone and cause some pressure in the backfield)

 

ILB-Poz

ILB- Kawika

ROLB- Maybin (Perfect fit. He could be our Ware)

 

RE- Schobel (Not the best fit, but you could rotate him in with the LB's)

LE- Stroud

NT- Williams (He could do a good job of clogging holes)

[H2o]

I came across an article, albeit brief, on how Dick Jauron and Jack Delrio spoke to their respective teams this off-season about mixing in a form of the 3-4 defense, on a limited basis. If my memory serves me, it was in order to improve their pass defense. Does anyone know why that might help us this year, in regards our personnel and what, specifically, would be benificial about our guys lining up that way? Would it be as a means to get Maybin out there, as OLB, I'd assume? Who would we have lining up, and do we have appropriate guys for that package? Maybe Harris as another LB in that group, or a few of our speedier, smaller LB's (safeties on other teams), for coverage purposes?

When we were getting torched by Houston in the '93 playoffs we switched to a 3-4 after halftime and used it to shut down their passing attack. It can be effective and confusing to opposing QB's. It puts more people in the middle of the field clogging up passing lanes for slants and in routes. It also is something that could be used to catch the other team offguard and generate a pass rush getting more speedy defenders on the field. Hopefully it's not just a smokescreen, but something that we employ because I think it would benefit Maybin to rush from a stand-up position.

[ans4e64]

There's nothing like taking a tweener 3-4 defensive end that doesn't rush the passer with the 3rd overall pick in the draft. That was unbelievable to me. In the 3-4 defense, there are so many imortant pieces, such as the NT, the OLB, ILB, ect. I'd say the DE in that defense doesn't have to be anything special, judging by the 3-4 ends that are starting around the league, i.e Justin Bannan. How the Chiefs decide to go defense with that pick, and bypass options like Raji at NT, or any of those OLB pass rushers, and instead go with the DE is beyond me.

 

Not a way to start over a franchise, IMO.

[R. Rich]

You need a talented front seven to play the 3-4. The powerful NT takes on a center and guard, while the two DEs occupy the tackles and, hopefully another G. The outside linebackers are usually big and fast, and bring pressure from the edge. The DEs and OLBs also can run all kinds of stunts, driving the OTs crazy. Seymour and Adalius Thomas with the Pats are a good example. DeMarcus Ware of the cowboys is probably the best OLB today. No O-linemen get to the second level, so the two ILBs make tons of tackles (see Mayo).

 

Not a bad summation.

 

 

The Bills are lacking the talent in every position, except for maybe Stroud as NT,

 

Judging by size, yes. Judging by style of play, no.

 

and Posluszny at ILB.

 

Poz as an ILB in a 3-4? I wouldn't advise that.

 

Mitchell might suffice at OLB, and as you say, Maybin might qualify there also. Forget the Bills DEs.

 

Mitchell is actually a better fit as an ILB in a 3-4 (think Larry Foote), but I do think Maybin could do well as an OLB based on his skill set. I also concur 'bout the DEs. Aside from Denney, the Bills really don't have one that could make the transition well.

[ans4e64]

Poz as an ILB in a 3-4? I wouldn't advise that.

 

 

 

Mitchell is actually a better fit as an ILB in a 3-4 (think Larry Foote)

 

I disagree. Poz is a run stuffer, not a pass rusher. He can play outside in a 4-3, but in a 3-4, inside is where he belongs.

 

Also, Mitchell is a pretty darn good pass rushing LB. I think he could fit either outside or inside quite nicely. He was dominant at times rushing the passer with the Giants.

[R. Rich]

There's nothing like taking a tweener 3-4 defensive end that doesn't rush the passer with the 3rd overall pick in the draft. That was unbelievable to me. In the 3-4 defense, there are so many imortant pieces, such as the NT, the OLB, ILB, ect. I'd say the DE in that defense doesn't have to be anything special, judging by the 3-4 ends that are starting around the league, i.e Justin Bannan. How the Chiefs decide to go defense with that pick, and bypass options like Raji at NT, or any of those OLB pass rushers, and instead go with the DE is beyond me.

 

Not a way to start over a franchise, IMO.

 

There is something to be said for getting it right w/ regard to the DE position in a 3-4. Aaron Smith of the Stillers is a classic example of this. He's a guy they drafted, plugged in @ DE, and haven't looked back. That said, I agree that unless you have a quality nose to anchor your D line, you'd better go get one. Raji is being used @ DE for Green Bay due to his footwork and their belief that he can handle the 5 technique. I think he can, but I also think he can be a solid nose.

 

If it were me, I'd have looked to draft his college teammate, Ron Brace, w/ my 2nd round pick. That would've allowed me to either try to move down or to take a guy like Raji, Orakpo, or even Larry English (a stretch w/ the high pick, but still a guy who would fill the bill as a pass rusher) to give me more of a push in the pass rush. Their bigger problem is what to do w/ Glenn Dorsey, a guy who is an excellent fit in a 4-3 scheme but is miscast in a 3-4, plus has a contract that makes it very tough on KC to actually move him now.

[R. Rich]

I disagree. Poz is a run stuffer, not a pass rusher. He can play outside in a 4-3, but in a 3-4, inside is where he belongs.

 

 

Poz is a guy who gets the most out of his athleticism. That's great in terms of range for a 4-3 middle 'backer (worked for guys like Ray Lewis and the late Sam Mills), but inside, you have to be able to take on interior blockers, shed 'em, and attack the run. Poz isn't quite big enough or aggressive enough in shedding blocks (a weak area in general for all Bills LBs) that I'd feel comfortable in putting him inside in a 3-4.

 

Also, Mitchell is a pretty darn good pass rushing LB. I think he could fit either outside or inside quite nicely. He was dominant at times rushing the passer with the Giants.

 

Mitchell got heat in a 4-3 scheme w/ a tremendous amount of pressure coming from the front four. In a 3-4, he's primarily responsible for pressuring the QB. Apples and oranges. In my opinion, I think he's far better suited to do damage inside in a 3-4.

[Goose]

The Bills now have an emerging defensive unit that will be a force in the AFC this year. Let's just hope the offense can hold their end up by putting points on the board so the defense doesn't completely wear down by the end of the year. This will be the year that we get to see the Tampa 2 work as it is suppose to work with the D-line putting pressure on the opposing offense, the LB's flying to the ball and finally the DB's can be ball hawks and go for the ints. Yes there are some holes but what team doesn't have them.

[DazedandConfused]

Totally agreed that to the extent we do this as a change-up it might make sense but this is simply not an issue of major importance unless the proposal is to make this our base D in which case it seems wildly inappropriate for the players we have.

 

Specifically, even if Maybin proved to be such a monster in the 3-4, I still would not make this our base (what we line up in well over 50% and in fact most of the time) because even if Maybin is a monster, a team needs to have other personnel who can run this D effectively is Maybin should happen to get injured (we saw what happened to Poz as a rookie so this is possible even if not likely), OR if Maybin gets nicked and slowed during the season and can play but not perfectly or even play well. OR like many rookies once he gets past the 11 or 12 games he played per season in college his play begins to suffer just when we get to playoff crunch time.

 

Even if Maybin is monster in the 3/4 we would not make it our base D as we have no back-up who can consistently be the pass rush specialist from the DE or even OLB position if we build our base D formation around one mutant players' talents.

[Magox]

I think the most creative we will get is using Maybin as a situational passrushing LB in the 4-3.

[ans4e64]

The Bills now have an emerging defensive unit that will be a force in the AFC this year. Let's just hope the offense can hold their end up by putting points on the board so the defense doesn't completely wear down by the end of the year. This will be the year that we get to see the Tampa 2 work as it is suppose to work with the D-line putting pressure on the opposing offense, the LB's flying to the ball and finally the DB's can be ball hawks and go for the ints. Yes there are some holes but what team doesn't have them.

 

Wow, you are incredibly optimistic.

[Jerry Jabber]

I'd wish we would could go to the 3-4 instead of the 4-3/Tampon 2 defense.

[Billistic]

Jay Ratliff (Cowboys) is an unusual example of a 3-4 NT. The guy is only barely 300 pounds, unlike the massive hulk of Vince Wilfork, Ferguson and Jenkins, but he is lightning quick and sheds blocks. It's amazing that Haloti Ngata at 345 pounds is quick enough to play DE with the Ravens. Whenever I think of Whitner I start to cry, and it's not even his fault.

[Goose]

Wow, you are incredibly optimistic.

 

 

I just have this overwhelming feeling this year that the Bills defense is on the cusp of being outstanding. There is a lot of talent---Stroud, Schoebel, Poz, McKelvin, McGee, Whitner, Williams, Mitchell, Kelsay with rookies Maybin and Byrd. I know most will scuff at Kelsay and possibly Williams but Kelsay can be productive as a situational player and Williams is a hard nose high motor player that has the luxury of playing along Stroud.

 

Now if the offensive line can come together the Bills might get off the snide since 1999 and make the playoffs....

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

No way. Thought they might switch to 3-4 in spots to keep the offense guessing, don't expect it much. The Bills DEs don't command the necessary double team and the OLBs haven't shown an ability to get the the QB. Stroud might be talented enough to be the NT but he's a bit late in his career to be making changes like that.

 

It's pretty obvious the Bills won't be running a base 3-4 defense for the above stated reasons. But pulling it out once in a while could be advantageous as a way of mixing in blitz packages. Maybin appears to have the skill set to play OLB, and I've stated since we drafted him that the Bills are looking at him to move to OLB. This kind of reinforces that. Don't expect a switch to the 3-4 base this season, but I wouldn't be surprised if by next year it happens.