The Dean Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 He doesn't even have the best career average on the Bills. Fred Jackson is 16.6. Now you'll come up with some lame criteria for what makes him the #1 best PR in NFL history. What does the NFL records say the official criteria is? The NFL criterion is a minimum of 75 returned punts. Parrish has 94 punt returns, and a career average of 14 yds/return. He is virtually tied with Hester for best return avg for a career. Jackson has returned 7 punts in his career. So, yes, Kelly might (rightfully) note that he is far from qualifying for that record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Link. because the NFL site has hestor as the leader at 14.06 but they only have it updated through 2007. Because Parrish needed two returns at the beginning of last year before he qualified. He was slightly ahead of Hester on his average at the time. Now he is two full yards a return ahead of Hester. As soon as he had those two returns, he became the official all-time leader. Parrish had 73 going into last year. If you look at this list, it is the all-time leaders, but it doesn't eliminate the ones that don't qualify. Jim Cason, for example, the only one ahead of Parrish, had 67. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/ParrRo00.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Link. because the NFL site has hestor as the leader at 14.06 but they only have it updated through 2007. I think you are talking about this link: http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/puntreturns On that link it clearly states: Highest Average, Career (75 returns) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 The NFL criterion is a minimum of 75 returned punts. Parrish has 94 punt returns, and a career average of 14 yds/return. He is virtually tied with Hester for best return avg for a career. Jackson has returned 7 punts in his career. So, yes, Kelly might (rightfully) note that he is far from qualifying for that record. Hester is now at 12.0 a return after last year. Parrish is two yards ahead of him at 14.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Voice Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 The very best lifetime PR average in the history of the NFL, in his absolute prime, is 14th this season? Yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 The very best lifetime PR average in the history of the NFL, in his absolute prime, is 14th this season? Ludicrous. As is the implication that McKelvin takes away Parrish's KO return time. Not a very observant reporter. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Hester is now at 12.0 a return after last year. Parrish is two yards ahead of him at 14.0. Thanks. Ludicrous. As is the implication that McKelvin takes away Parrish's KO return time. Not a very observant reporter. GO BILLS!!! Horribly written and researched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Because Parrish needed two returns at the beginning of last year before he qualified. He was slightly ahead of Hester on his average at the time. Now he is two full yards a return ahead of Hester. As soon as he had those two returns, he became the official all-time leader. Parrish had 73 going into last year. If you look at this list, it is the all-time leaders, but it doesn't eliminate the ones that don't qualify. Jim Cason, for example, the only one ahead of Parrish, had 67. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/ParrRo00.htm Thanks, sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Hadn't seen this posted yet - if it was, my apologies: http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=554869 Interesting article, says that "With the elimination of wedge blockers, return men will be under greater pressure because cover teams will be able to get downfield more easily. Sure hands will be a key in the return game, as will the ability to make the first tackler miss and get upfield quickly." Bills excerpts as follows: 6. Leodis McKelvin, Bills: McKelvin found his niche in the return game as a rookie last season, averaging over 28 yards on kickoff returns. He's big and fast, making him tough to bring down. He'll be back in the return role in 2009. 14. Roscoe Parrish, Bills: Though the signing of Terrell Owens and the emergence of Leodis McKelvin as a dangerous kick returner will limit Parrish's role with the Bills this year, he remains a dynamic returner who has at least one punt-return touchdown in each of the last three seasons. Extremely quick and instinctive as a runner, he sees running lanes well and can make multiple defenders miss in the open field. Nice to see our guys getting a little special teams love! Thought the ranking of all the rookies was a bit too high - This is a role that is prone to boom and bust. With that said I would have had Roscoe higher - maybe he loses goround because he is only effective on punts and useless on kickoffs. McKelvin does have all of the traits to be outstanding. I thought Cribbs should top the list but perhaps that is more for his overall ST's play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Thanks. Horribly written and researched. Ok, so much for my post. What did you think of the article? ba da bing! GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Hadn't seen this posted yet - if it was, my apologies: http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=554869 Interesting article, says that "With the elimination of wedge blockers, return men will be under greater pressure because cover teams will be able to get downfield more easily. Sure hands will be a key in the return game, as will the ability to make the first tackler miss and get upfield quickly." Bills excerpts as follows: 6. Leodis McKelvin, Bills: McKelvin found his niche in the return game as a rookie last season, averaging over 28 yards on kickoff returns. He's big and fast, making him tough to bring down. He'll be back in the return role in 2009. 14. Roscoe Parrish, Bills: Though the signing of Terrell Owens and the emergence of Leodis McKelvin as a dangerous kick returner will limit Parrish's role with the Bills this year, he remains a dynamic returner who has at least one punt-return touchdown in each of the last three seasons. Extremely quick and instinctive as a runner, he sees running lanes well and can make multiple defenders miss in the open field. Nice to see our guys getting a little special teams love! If we going to give kudos to said article then we have to respect what they said about some players we gave up this season specifically OT Jason Peters who ranks #3 at his position and OG Derrick Dockery who ranks #19 which doesn't bode too well for the left side of our O-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 5' 8" 184lbs is "big"?? Not even in the MLB. You could make the argument that Johnnie Lee Higgins and Jacoby Jones are at least as good as Roscoe. For punts, the real measure is returns over 20 yards and TDs. The extra 2-3 yards per that Roscoe brings is not meaningful field position. Also, Roscoe didn't have to return too many punts (21) with our crappy D. They're all pretty close. What are you, retarded? The Bills were top 10 in 3rd down defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 What are you, retarded? The Bills were top 10 in 3rd down defense. Link? They always strike me as awful in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Link? They always strike me as awful in that department. They are, and I couldn't care less what the stats are. When it counts, they give up the long gains. It is a combo of having no pass rush, and playing the dbs a quarter mile away from scrimage in the Dumbo Jauron defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Link? They always strike me as awful in that department. 9th at 36.1% down about 9% from the previous year. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 When it counts, they give up the long gains. When doesn't "it count"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 When doesn't "it count"? If a team has a sizeable lead and there is little time left. Or, if they are way down and there is little time left. Or, when there are a few seconds left in a half and the other team doesn't score. There are other scenarios as well. Do you make the case that stats adequately refelct a teams 3rd down efficiency? If you haven't seen the Bills defense crap out in the clutch on 3rd and long, you are not watching these games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 9th at 36.1% down about 9% from the previous year. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 Thanks. Wow, I would have NEVER guessed that. Their third-down defense has been a major pet peeve of mine since 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 If a team has a sizeable lead and there is little time left. Or, if they are way down and there is little time left. Or, when there are a few seconds left in a half and the other team doesn't score. There are other scenarios as well. Do you make the case that stats adequately refelct a teams 3rd down efficiency? If you haven't seen the Bills defense crap out in the clutch on 3rd and long, you are not watching these games. I just don't think the Bills can rank high in stopping the offense on third down, if they always let the other team have a big play "when it counts". It simply makes little sense. If you believe that, then you have to believe all of the Bills defensive stops happen late in the game/quarter/etc. That just isn't the case. I agree it feels like the Bills give up the 3rd down conversion too often. So do most losing teams. But, in this case I don't think the stats lie all that much. The Bills D, playing as soft as it did, actually performed better on 3rd down than many are willing to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 If a team has a sizeable lead and there is little time left. Or, if they are way down and there is little time left. Or, when there are a few seconds left in a half and the other team doesn't score. There are other scenarios as well. Do you make the case that stats adequately refelct a teams 3rd down efficiency? If you haven't seen the Bills defense crap out in the clutch on 3rd and long, you are not watching these games. You have what we call "selective memory". If the Bills give up the big 3rd down 1 out of 3 times, you view it as the majority of the time. If the Bills stop a team, and then the offense does nothing (giving the ball back to the opponent) you forget that they made the previous clutch stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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