Waterboarding

[Tcali]

Some think it helped save lives, others think that is a useless torture technique.

 

 

What do you think?

i think its ok for republicans to waterboard people.democrats don't know how to waterboard properly.they torture people.

[Steely Dan]

I've broken this up into little pieces for those who can't read a lot.

 

why is waterboarding savage? Not disagreeing with you, but just wondering why you believe it to be so

 

I've heard these things elsewhere but this guy, who has been waterboarded as part of his training, explains it very well. It is torture and torture is savage. JMO

 

As a former master instructor and chief of training at the U.S. Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego, I know the waterboard personally and intimately. Our staff was required to undergo the waterboard at its fullest. I was no exception.

 

I have personally led, witnessed and supervised waterboarding of hundreds of people. It has been reported that both the Army and Navy SERE school's interrogation manuals were used to form the interrogation techniques employed by the Army and the CIA for its terror suspects. What is less frequently reported is that our training was designed to show how an evil totalitarian enemy would use torture at the slightest whim.

 

Having been subjected to this technique, I can say: It is risky but not entirely dangerous when applied in training for a very short period. However, when performed on an unsuspecting prisoner, waterboarding is a torture technique - without a doubt. There is no way to sugarcoat it.

 

Gee, maybe our soldiers shouldn't use real ammo in their weapons. Cause it's just cruel that the people they are aiming at may get hurt. Maybe we should just try to reason with the people we catch to get info out of them. They surely will understand and give it up willingly being the civilized bunch they are. Or better yet, lets hire hookers to blow em for the info.

 

PUNCH! That is one of the stupidest things I've read here. Show me where anyone believes that. It's the same M.O. with a lot of the waterboarding defenders. Take things to the extreme on the other side. Dib did it above and you're doing it here. I aplogize to Dib for not pointing out that his post is one of the dumbest I've ever read.

 

If you stick to the issue of waterboarding then it's harder to defend. It's only easy to keep demonizing them in order to justify it. What they do to our guys should have no bearing on what we do to them. That's what being moral is. I want my country to be a moral leader, it seems you could care less about that. JMO

 

_____________________________________________________________________________

 

Why don't we listen to what a professional interrogator has to say about the effectiveness of torture.

 

Link

 

Testifying to a Senate panel behind a screen to hide his identity, Soufan said his team's non-threatening interrogation approach elicited crucial information from al-Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, including intelligence on "dirty bomb" terrorist Jose Padilla.

 

"We obtained a treasure trove of highly significant actionable intelligence," he said.

 

But Soufan said his team had to step aside when CIA contractors took over. They began using harsh methods that caused Zubaydah to "shut down," Soufan said.

 

"These techniques, from an operational perspective, are slow, ineffective, unreliable, and harmful to our efforts to defeat al-Qaeda."

 

Do you honestly believe that torturing Al Quaeda members has any positive effect on our war against them? IMO it makes it a lot easier for them to recruit and that hurts our cause a lot more than any "supposed" benefits.

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Link

 

"From my experience — and I speak as someone who has personally interrogated many terrorists and elicited important actionable intelligence — I strongly believe that it is a mistake to use what has become known as the 'enhanced interrogation techniques,'" Soufan noted in his written statement.

 

Such a position is "shared by many professional operatives, including the CIA officers who were present at the initial phases of the Abu Zubaydah interrogation."

 

 

 

"I wish to do my part to ensure that we never again use these … techniques instead of the tried, tested, and successful ones — the ones that are also in sync with our values and moral character. Only by doing this will we defeat the terrorists as effectively and quickly as possible."

 

____________________________________________________________

 

His NYT Op-ed piece;

We discovered, for example, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Abu Zubaydah also told us about Jose Padilla, the so-called dirty bomber. This experience fit what I had found throughout my counterterrorism career: traditional interrogation techniques are successful in identifying operatives, uncovering plots and saving lives.

 

There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn’t, or couldn’t have been, gained from regular tactics. In addition, I saw that using these alternative methods on other terrorists backfired on more than a few occasions — all of which are still classified. The short sightedness behind the use of these techniques ignored the unreliability of the methods, the nature of the threat, the mentality and modus operandi of the terrorists, and due process.

 

___________________________________________________________

 

Tom Ridge says it's torture;

 

"There's just no doubt in my mind — under any set of rules — waterboarding is torture," Tom Ridge said Friday in an interview with the Associated Press. Ridge had offered the same opinion earlier in the day to members of the American Bar Association at a homeland security conference.

 

"One of America's greatest strengths is the soft power of our value system and how we treat prisoners of war, and we don't torture," Ridge said in the interview. Ridge was secretary of the Homeland Security Department between 2003 and 2005. "And I believe, unlike others in the administration, that waterboarding was, is — and will always be — torture. That's a simple statement."

 

_________________________________________________________________________

 

It's a war crime

 

Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.

 

"Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor," Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) told his colleagues last Thursday during the debate on military commissions legislation. "We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II," he said.

 

It's less effective, it diminishes our ability to make the world believe we are moral leaders and it's been proven to be an actionable war crime. What else needs to be said?

 

_______________________________________________________________

 

Snowboarding takes longer cause the snows gotta melt to make'em talk.

 

Torture Rules!!!!

 

I can't believe I laughed at that.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

 

BTW, What's happening with Sean Hannity's offer to be waterboarded for charity.

 

The lefties are ponying up a lot of cash to the charity for him to do it. If he does it there will be a HUGE amount of money for the families of the troops. Nobodies heard, as far as I know, about him setting up a time and place to be waterboarded or for that matter confirming he will actually do it. It's been almost a full month since the offer and not a peep out of him since. Methinks.

 

Just like a lot of people who claim waterboarding isn't torture are too (another word for cat) to actually do it. Bill talkers with no guts to back the talk up.

 

_________________________________________________

 

Good article by Christopher Hitchens who agreed to be waterboarded for a story;

 

It goes without saying that I knew I could stop the process at any time, and that when it was all over I would be released into happy daylight rather than returned to a darkened cell. But it’s been well said that cowards die many times before their deaths, and it was difficult for me to completely forget the clause in the contract of indemnification that I had signed. This document (written by one who knew) stated revealingly:

 

“Water boarding” is a potentially dangerous activity in which the participant can receive serious and permanent (physical, emotional and psychological) injuries and even death, including injuries and death due to the respiratory and neurological systems of the body.

Video of his waterboarding experience

 

Christopher Hitchens can do it but Hannity is a (another word for cat).

 

Olberman has offered $1,000 dollars for every second he lasts. I have a feeling Olberman won't be writing a check anytime soon because of Hannity.

[IDBillzFan]

Video of his waterboarding experience

 

Christopher Hitchens can do it but Hannity is a (another word for cat).

 

Olberman has offered $1,000 dollars for every second he lasts. I have a feeling Olberman won't be writing a check anytime soon because of Hannity.

Y'know, when I think back to the innocent people jumping to their death from the towers because it was a better option than whatever hell they were facing in the buildings, I find it hard to feel badly that what I just watched on that video happened to three terrorists...including one who was directly responsible for 9/11. In fact, I find it even harder to believe that people have forgotten what happened that day to the extent that they suddenly feel badly for people who mean to kill Americans for no other reason than because they hate us.

 

I find it curious that the current administration had no problem handing out the waterboarding playbook against the recommendations of four former CIA directors, based on his comment today of "In short, I released these memos because there was no overriding reason to protect them." which is a pussified copout...BUT he refuses to release the results of the waterboarding, which are also contained in the memos. I mean, what are they afraid of? Why only release half the story? Is there something to hide?

 

If there is no overriding reason to protect the first memos, what is the overriding reason for protecting the results???

 

There is no viable answer to that question except that this president is only interested in ensuring that America continues to hate the previous administration if for no other reason than to, by default, make his administration seem likeable.

[Steely Dan]

Y'know, when I think back to the innocent people jumping to their death from the towers because it was a better option than whatever hell they were facing in the buildings, I find it hard to feel badly that what I just watched on that video happened to three terrorists...including one was directly responsible for 9/11. In fact, I find it even harder to believe that people have forgotten what happened that day to the extent that they suddenly feel badly for people who mean to kill Americans for no other reason than because they hate us.

 

I find it curious that the current administration had no problem handing out the waterboarding playbook against the recommendations of four former CIA directors, based on his comment today of "In short, I released these memos because there was no overriding reason to protect them." which is a pussified copout...BUT he refuses to release the results of the waterboarding, which are also contained in the memos. I mean, what are they afraid of? Why only release half the story? Is there something to hide?

 

If there is no overriding reason to protect the first memos, what is the overriding reason for protecting the results???

 

There is no viable answer to that question except that this president is only interested in ensuring that America continues to hate the previous administration if for no other reason than to, by default, make his administration seem likeable.

 

What you saw was called torture by the recipient and the guys doing it took a lot of precautions with him. I guess your morals are easily compromised. I try to stick harder to mine. Their egregious acts do not justify our stooping to the immoral act of torture.

 

If you read the articles about what was gained by normal interrogation vs. what was gained by WB interrogation you'd find it wasn't much, if anything, with WB'ing. I firmly believe that any info brought out by WB'ing could be brought out using normal interrogation techniques. Those techniques have been effective for years going back to WWII and more.

 

Our enemies were astonished at how well we treated them as prisoners in WWII and it was a huge help in mending the fences after the war. Becoming savages only encourages more savagery on the other side.

 

BTW, as I'm typing this HLN is reporting a terror plot has been broken up by the FBI. No torture, no harm just good damn police work. Huh.

[ieatcrayonz]

There is no viable answer to that question except that this president is only interested in ensuring that America continues to hate the previous administration if for no other reason than to, by default, make his administration seem likeable.

Some people hate Al Quaeda a little less than they hate Dick Cheney. They would probably only change their mind if it was severed from their body and rolling down a flight of stairs.

 

The good news is that somewhere in a Pakistanian cave right now Osama bin Laden is gradually having his mind changed.

 

He used to think Americans were Los Gatos. After watching us debate for months upon end about if we should punish our own people for waterboarding Khalid Sheik Mohammed, bin Laden certainly thinks we rough and tumble now. All that banter on cable TV is not for the faint of heart. I'm sure he thinks we will never waver in our resolve after watching us argue about how me might have treated poor KSM unfairly.

[ieatcrayonz]

If you read the articles about what was gained by normal interrogation vs. what was gained by WB interrogation you'd find it wasn't much, if anything, with WB'ing. I firmly believe that any info brought out by WB'ing could be brought out using normal interrogation techniques. Those techniques have been effective for years going back to WWII and more.

 

So why do you think we tried to do it? Do you think that Cheney thought it would be fun? I mean if nobody ever really thought it would work was it just for some laughs?

 

 

Our enemies were astonished at how well we treated them as prisoners in WWII and it was a huge help in mending the fences after the war. Becoming savages only encourages more savagery on the other side.

 

I'm with you on this one. I'm pretty sure Al Quaeda will be our buddies if we're nice to them. I don't mean just a little nice, I mean really really nice. They respect nice. Plus, Khalid Sheik Mohammed is a pretty nice dude himself. You can probably only name one reporter he beheaded. One isn't many.

 

 

BTW, as I'm typing this HLN is reporting a terror plot has been broken up by the FBI. No torture, no harm just good damn police work. Huh.

 

Bingo. There's your proof. I mean it isn't quite up to the standards you used when you solved the Sean Taylor caper, but you are on your game here. Nice work.

[IDBillzFan]

What you saw was called torture by the recipient and the guys doing it took a lot of precautions with him. I guess your morals are easily compromised. I try to stick harder to mine. Their egregious acts do not justify our stooping to the immoral act of torture.

 

If you read the articles about what was gained by normal interrogation vs. what was gained by WB interrogation you'd find it wasn't much, if anything, with WB'ing. I firmly believe that any info brought out by WB'ing could be brought out using normal interrogation techniques. Those techniques have been effective for years going back to WWII and more.

 

Our enemies were astonished at how well we treated them as prisoners in WWII and it was a huge help in mending the fences after the war. Becoming savages only encourages more savagery on the other side.

 

BTW, as I'm typing this HLN is reporting a terror plot has been broken up by the FBI. No torture, no harm just good damn police work. Huh.

First of all, you could have tied the guy to a chair and put a hotdog and a beer in front of him and he would have considered it torture. We have two ideas of what we're willing to do to protect our country, and to point to an example of a terror plot being stopped without torture as the final nail in the coffin of this debate is naive at best. It's nice you take the high road, but should the regretful day ever come that a terrorist is holding a member of your family on their knees with a knife to their throat, I'd be embarrassed to admit that you'd prefer to take a higher road to save your family if you knew waterboarding someone could stop the madness.

 

But hey...your morals aren't compromised, so I'm sure that would make a good story at the Steely Dan Family Reunion.

 

By the way, if there "wasn't much" gained by waterboarding, then why not release the rest of the memos? I'll ask again...and again...and again...if there is no overriding reason to protect the first memos, what is the overriding reason for protecting the results??? You have no answer because there is viable answer.

[Magox]

I've broken this up into little pieces for those who can't read a lot.

 

For every person you mention that say it is torture and ineffective, I can bring up two that say the opposite.

 

Former US Attorney general John Ashcroft, Former CIA Director George Tenet, former CIA Director Porter J. Goss, The OLC in 2002, Andrew McCarthy former US Federal Prosecutor and current director of the Center for Law and Counterterrorism to name a few.

 

The point is it is a debatable issue. In my view, it is not torture, sure it is uncomfortable, but to tell you the truth, if it comes to potentially saving lives, and it is questionably not considered torture, then I am all for it.

 

We performed Waterboarding interrogation techniques on only 3 individuals. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah, and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri. I'm really not to sympathetic that we poured some water on them to get information from them. According to the CIA it was effective in getting information that we needed to prevent further damage from happening. As far as I know, we have foiled just about every attempt on our soil since 9/11, so something has been working. I believe it has been effective.

 

What I think is really crappy about all this is that we are demonizing the past administration for trying to keep this country safe when everyone was paranoid about when the next terrorist act could take place. Sickening!!!

 

We really are going to feel sympathy for these scumbags? 3 guys, 3 pieces of shiat, who wanted nothing more than to exterminate our way of living. We poured some freaking water on their faces and now we are going to feel sorry for them.

 

That's absolutely insane!!

 

Btw, waterboarding is administered on our own troops and some CIA operatives. If our boys can take it then I don't have a problem with these scumbags being subjected to this at all!

[IDBillzFan]

We really are going to feel sympathy for these scumbags? 3 guys, 3 pieces of shiat, who wanted nothing more than to exterminate our way of living. We poured some freaking water on their faces and now we are going to feel sorry for them.

Yes, he will. Because, y'know, he wouldn't want to compromise his morals.

[Boom Jam]

1) Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is the uncle of Ramzi Yousef, mastermind of the WTC 1 bombing.

 

2) Ramzi Yousef was also the mastermind of the foiled Bojinka Plot. The article states that KSM was in on it too for those of you who didn't bother reading it.

 

3) Sunni Baluchis and Iraq have had historically strong ties - especially during the Iran/ Iraq war.

 

4) Ramzi Yousef entered the United States with an Iraqi passport.

 

5) Ironically enough the WTC 1 bombing occurred on the second anniversary of the liberation of Kuwait in the first U.S.-led war with Iraq.

 

6) Congressman Rohrabacher's Report raises some astonishing questions surrounding OKC.

 

7) It's a shame that Timothy McVeigh wasn't waterboarded before his rushed execution. We may have gotten a few leads, and learned some things. Instead we got vengeance against a single individual.

 

Small world, isn't it?

[Booster4324]

Can anyone find proof that waterboarding was done to more than 3 prisoners? 3 complete and utter scumbags? Or are we arguing over what was done to those three? Let's make sure we are all on the same page and know what we are talking about before we proceed.

[Boom Jam]

 

Disclaimer - I love this movie, and this scene.

[Mark Vader]

It's not useless to people like Dick Cheney who was willing to get false information as long as it was what he wanted to hear, namely a terrorist saying there was a link between 9/11 and Iraq so he could use it to support the administration's false claims. But if you want true information, it's useless, as has been stated my many military and CIA veterans who are familiar with the results.

And you have proof of this right?

[Booster4324]

And you have proof of this right?

 

No, of course he doesn't. Dick Cheney simply lied about it all. Why would he need to coerce false information?

[IDBillzFan]

And you have proof of this right?

Yes. He heard from Keith Olberman AND Bill Maher. Good enough for him.

[Steely Dan]

First of all, you could have tied the guy to a chair and put a hotdog and a beer in front of him and he would have considered it torture. We have two ideas of what we're willing to do to protect our country, and to point to an example of a terror plot being stopped without torture as the final nail in the coffin of this debate is naive at best. It's nice you take the high road, but should the regretful day ever come that a terrorist is holding a member of your family on their knees with a knife to their throat, I'd be embarrassed to admit that you'd prefer to take a higher road to save your family if you knew waterboarding someone could stop the madness.

 

But hey...your morals aren't compromised, so I'm sure that would make a good story at the Steely Dan Family Reunion.

 

By the way, if there "wasn't much" gained by waterboarding, then why not release the rest of the memos? I'll ask again...and again...and again...if there is no overriding reason to protect the first memos, what is the overriding reason for protecting the results??? You have no answer because there is viable answer.

 

Thanks for telling me how I should react to an absolutely absurd analogy. To answer your analogy I wouldn't want anyone waterboarded because my family member would have a much better chance of dying if the captors found out their friends were being tortured.

 

As for the memos I don't know whats in them, and neither do you. If they were so strong about preventing terrorism then why didn't Bush ask for them to release them now? Why isn't he asking the POTUS to release them?

 

 

For every person you mention that say it is torture and ineffective, I can bring up two that say the opposite.

 

Former US Attorney general John Ashcroft, Former CIA Director George Tenet, former CIA Director Porter J. Goss, The OLC in 2002, Andrew McCarthy former US Federal Prosecutor and current director of the Center for Law and Counterterrorism to name a few.

 

The point is it is a debatable issue. In my view, it is not torture, sure it is uncomfortable, but to tell you the truth, if it comes to potentially saving lives, and it is questionably not considered torture, then I am all for it.

 

We performed Waterboarding interrogation techniques on only 3 individuals. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah, and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri. I'm really not to sympathetic that we poured some water on them to get information from them. According to the CIA it was effective in getting information that we needed to prevent further damage from happening. As far as I know, we have foiled just about every attempt on our soil since 9/11, so something has been working. I believe it has been effective.

 

What I think is really crappy about all this is that we are demonizing the past administration for trying to keep this country safe when everyone was paranoid about when the next terrorist act could take place. Sickening!!!

 

We really are going to feel sympathy for these scumbags? 3 guys, 3 pieces of shiat, who wanted nothing more than to exterminate our way of living. We poured some freaking water on their faces and now we are going to feel sorry for them.

 

That's absolutely insane!!

 

Btw, waterboarding is administered on our own troops and some CIA operatives. If our boys can take it then I don't have a problem with these scumbags being subjected to this at all!

 

Ok, first I don't care who says it isn't torture. Years of war crime prosecutions say it is. Prosecutions we brought against our own enemies.

 

Next, they aren't pouring water on them. They are waterboarding them. Look into the difference.

 

Next, do you really believe that any valuable info. on Al Quaeda can be gotten four years after the attack?

 

Next, The Bush administrations answer to keeping us safe was to piss off the terrorists even more and make their recruiting fairly simple. Great idea there George.

 

Next, waterboarding is done on our own troops to prepare them for being tortured in that way. What's your point.

 

Next, go back and read the articles I linked. A long time interrogator has testified that it was counter productive to getting information and that he was getting more info from his techniques than the torturers did.

 

I'm sorry you don't have solid morals but I believe our country should.

 

Yes, he will. Because, y'know, he wouldn't want to compromise his morals.

 

Thanks again for telling me what I'd do. Do you have any real information to add to this discussion or just stupid sarcastic statements and anti-American gibberish. I know, I know you'll think I'm anti-American but the fact is that your ideals are the same ones that have lowered the moral standing of this country, made it easy for Al Quaeda to recruit and you possess the sick mind that so many people of the world think we all have. JMO

 

 

1) Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is the uncle of Ramzi Yousef, mastermind of the WTC 1 bombing.

 

2) Ramzi Yousef was also the mastermind of the foiled Bojinka Plot. The article states that KSM was in on it too for those of you who didn't bother reading it.

 

3) Sunni Baluchis and Iraq have had historically strong ties - especially during the Iran/ Iraq war.

 

4) Ramzi Yousef entered the United States with an Iraqi passport.

 

5) Ironically enough the WTC 1 bombing occurred on the second anniversary of the liberation of Kuwait in the first U.S.-led war with Iraq.

 

6) Congressman Rohrabacher's Report raises some astonishing questions surrounding OKC.

 

7) It's a shame that Timothy McVeigh wasn't waterboarded before his rushed execution. We may have gotten a few leads, and learned some things. Instead we got vengeance against a single individual.

 

Small world, isn't it?

 

I wondered how long it would take for somebody to think we should start torturing Americans.

 

 

Can anyone find proof that waterboarding was done to more than 3 prisoners? 3 complete and utter scumbags? Or are we arguing over what was done to those three? Let's make sure we are all on the same page and know what we are talking about before we proceed.

 

So the number of people tortured is relevant to the fact we tortured anyone?

 

Hey if you guys think torturing people is good for the country I can't change your minds. I'm not a Christian but for some of you Christianity might be a good idea.

[Dante]

PUNCH! That is one of the stupidest things I've read here. Show me where anyone believes that. It's the same M.O. with a lot of the waterboarding defenders. Take things to the extreme on the other side. Dib did it above and you're doing it here. I aplogize to Dib for not pointing out that his post is one of the dumbest I've ever read.

 

If you stick to the issue of waterboarding then it's harder to defend. It's only easy to keep demonizing them in order to justify it. What they do to our guys should have no bearing on what we do to them. That's what being moral is. I want my country to be a moral leader, it seems you could care less about that. JMO

 

_____________________________________________________________________________

Morality in war? And this is a war. Honestly, if American leaders cared less about morality in wars and more about winning, well, we would probably win more of them. You think the Romans gave a crap about morality when fighting wars? Whether the cause is right or wrong there is only one way to fight them. To win. Harder to do that when handcuffed by morality.

[Steely Dan]

Morality in war? And this is a war. Honestly, if American leaders cared less about morality in wars and more about winning, well, we would probably win more of them. You think the Romans gave a crap about morality when fighting wars? Whether the cause is right or wrong there is only one way to fight them. To win. Harder to do that when handcuffed by morality.

 

Yes, our war record is hideous. Why should I give a about the Romans? In case you haven't heard their world domination ended many, many years ago.

 

No, there is more than one way to fight a war. Our enemies choose the barbaric way often. We have, until recently, been moral leaders in war and strict adherents to the Geneva Conventions.

 

It is harder to catch criminals when the police are forced to deal with the Constitution. I guess we should abolish the restrictions on the police because it would make catching criminals easier.

[Magox]

Ok, first I don't care who says it isn't torture. Years of war crime prosecutions say it is. Prosecutions we brought against our own enemies.

 

Next, they aren't pouring water on them. They are waterboarding them. Look into the difference.

 

Next, do you really believe that any valuable info. on Al Quaeda can be gotten four years after the attack?

 

Next, The Bush administrations answer to keeping us safe was to piss off the terrorists even more and make their recruiting fairly simple. Great idea there George.

 

Next, waterboarding is done on our own troops to prepare them for being tortured in that way. What's your point.

 

Next, go back and read the articles I linked. A long time interrogator has testified that it was counter productive to getting information and that he was getting more info from his techniques than the torturers did.

You don't care who says it isn't torture? huh?? That's what this whole conversation is about.

 

I do know what waterboarding is:

 

In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth… During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths… The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout… You have… informed us that it is likely that this procedure would not last more than twenty minutes in any one application

 

Just like I said, water being poured on him

 

Do I think valuable information was obtained? absolutely!! 2 former CIA directors and counterterrorism experts and countless others have documented that it works. Not to mention it's been used for centuries, my guess is if it wasn't effective it wouldnt be used. duhhh!!??!!

 

If you really think that this is all a plot from George to piss off the terrorists, man, you really are gullible. Just like LA Bills said, you are watching too much Maher, Matthews and Olbermann.

 

Like I said, if we would subject our own troops through these interrogation techniques then I have no problem with subjecting scumbags through it. I find it odd that someone feels sympathy for these guys, but have no issues with our troops being subjected to it. wierd, or is it?

 

 

Go back and read the articles you provided? I did, and just like I said, for every person you bring up that say it isn't torture, I can provide 2 who say the opposite.

[VABills]

You don't care who says it isn't torture? huh?? That's what this whole conversation is about.

 

I do know what waterboarding is:

 

In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth… During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths… The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout… You have… informed us that it is likely that this procedure would not last more than twenty minutes in any one application

Just like I said, water being poured on him

 

Do I think valuable information was obtained? absolutely!! 2 former CIA directors and counterterrorism experts and countless others have documented that it works. Not to mention it's been used for centuries, my guess is if it wasn't effective it wouldnt be used. duhhh!!??!!

 

If you really think that this is all a plot from George to piss off the terrorists, man, you really are gullible. Just like LA Bills said, you are watching too much Maher, Matthews and Olbermann.

 

Like I said, if we would subject our own troops through these interrogation techniques then I have no problem with subjecting scumbags through it. I find it odd that someone feels sympathy for these guys, but have no issues with our troops being subjected to it. wierd, or is it?

 

 

Go back and read the articles you provided? I did, and just like I said, for every person you bring up that say it isn't torture, I can provide 2 who say the opposite.

 

 

Wow I had no idea when I went through the sprinkler for hours on end as a kid and water was being poured on me that I was being tortured. Or everyday, I take a nice like shower, usually at least 10 minutes, I am being tortured. that's it, showered are now out-lawed according to the great messiah. No bath for you.