TimGraham Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Tim G, What good is hiring a quality young coordinator when the support system within the organization is going to work against the new hire in turning things around. Our owner is clueless, the front office is inept and many of the football personnel decisions are made on the basis of financial considerations rather than football considerations. It is indisputatble, at least to me, that the most influential staffers in the organization are Littman, Oberdofer and Brandon. The first two named are finance people and the third is a marketing specialist. Does anyone really believe that the departure of Peters and Walker were made by Jauron and his football staff? Of course not. Does anyone doubt that London Fletcher is better than any of our non impact LBs on the team's roster, including Paul P.? Fletcher was allowed to walk because his contract was up and the money people in the organization weren't going to pay the price for one of the most productive linebackers in the league. The organizational structure in this losing organization was set up by the owner so he can extract as much money out of the franchise that he can. The owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates has the same business model. Performance on the field is not a serious consideration as long as he can take keep a low payroll, take revenue sharing money from the wealthier franchises and buy down his debt in order to increase equity and still have a profit. The owner of the LA Clippers, Sterling, also had a similar business model. Keep the payroll low, don't resign your quality players when their first contract is up and still reap a profit. Until there is new ownership is not going to be any appreciable change in how the team is operated. Does anyone expect a 91 yr old person to be less stubborn as time moves on? Does anyone expect a 91 yr old grouch to stop conducting business in the way he has been doing for half a century? If the old way has been incredibly profitable for him why does anyone expect him to change? The Bills have become one of the most irrelevant teams in the NFL. Why do anything to change the dynamics of this dismal franchise when it works handsomely well for the owner's wallet? I agree with many of your points, if not all. But the question was how appealing the Bills head coaching job really is. When there are only 32 of something and dozens of people want one of those, any opening still is quite appealing. Can they succeed once they take the job ... That's a different question. But maybe that's why you need to look at eager young coaches who don't know what they're signing up for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I agree with many of your points, if not all. But the question was how appealing the Bills head coaching job really is. When there are only 32 of something and dozens of people want one of those, any opening still is quite appealing. Can they succeed once they take the job ... That's a different question. But maybe that's why you need to look at eager young coaches who don't know what they're signing up for. ...or a current member of the inner circle like Bobby April...yippeee. Tim, Do you get the feeling that Ralph is blaming the problems we are experiencing on coaching, front office or both? Obviously I ask because most fans would like them to clean house, starting with the stooges in the front office. I just have a sinking feeling Russ and company will convince Ralph they have assembled the talent and the only change which will take place is at HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimGraham Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 ...or a current member of the inner circle like Bobby April...yippeee. Tim, Do you get the feeling that Ralph is blaming the problems we are experiencing on coaching, front office or both? Obviously I ask because most fans would like them to clean house, starting with the stooges in the front office. I just have a sinking feeling Russ and company will convince Ralph they have assembled the talent and the only change which will take place is at HC. I'm trying not to sound flippant when I say this ... But I have no idea what Ralph is thinking or what more he's willing to put up with. There just doesn't seem to be a long-range plan at all. They come off to me as an organization that wings it from year to year. Sometimes you see a struggling franchise but can detect the master plan -- as frustrating as it might be to wait for it. But I can't find that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I agree with many of your points, if not all. But the question was how appealing the Bills head coaching job really is. When there are only 32 of something and dozens of people want one of those, any opening still is quite appealing. Can they succeed once they take the job ... That's a different question. But maybe that's why you need to look at eager young coaches who don't know what they're signing up for. Tim G., As I stated in another posting if you join the Bills or the Raiders organization and don't know what you are getting into you are a fool. I do agree with you that there are only 32 teams and very few opportunities to become a HC in the NFL. So if a coach is ambitiious and confident I understand why someone would accept a HC job with even one of these very "troubled" franchises. But I'm sure you would agree that no former successful HC with stature such as Cowher, Dungy, Shannahan, Holmgren etc would agree to sign on with one of these two chaotic and dysfunctional organizations unless they were able to be guaranteed full control of the football operation. I'm not overly impressed with Dick Jauron as a HC. He is a mediocre HC in a league which has a lot of average HCs. But it is grossly unfair for him to be vilified and ridiculed as a HC and person by the press and fans to the extent he is when the real culprits of this failed franchise escape the level of criticism which they richly deserve. It is the owner who has created an organizational structure that dooms the franchise to fail no matter who is wearing the headset on the sideline on game day. The situation is very sad and getting very ugly. Dick Jauron being fired is not going to change the dynamics of this very flawed organization. Dick Jauron is a very good and decent person who has found himself in an untenable situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Tim G., As I stated in another posting if you join the Bills or the Raiders organization and don't know what you are getting into you are a fool. I do agree with you that there are only 32 teams and very few opportunities to become a HC in the NFL. So if a coach is ambitiious and confident I understand why someone would accept a HC job with even one of these very "troubled" franchises. But I'm sure you would agree that no former successful HC with stature such as Cowher, Dungy, Shannahan, Holmgren etc would agree to sign on with one of these two chaotic and dysfunctional organizations unless they were able to be guaranteed full control of the football operation. I'm not overly impressed with Dick Jauron as a HC. He is a mediocre HC in a league which has a lot of average HCs. But it is grossly unfair for him to be vilified and ridiculed as a HC and person by the press and fans to the extent he is when the real culprits of this failed franchise escape the level of criticism which they richly deserve. It is the owner who has created an organizational structure that dooms the franchise to fail no matter who is wearing the headset on the sideline on game day. The situation is very sad and getting very ugly. Dick Jauron being fired is not going to change the dynamics of this very flawed organization. Dick Jauron is a very good and decent person who has found himself in an untenable situation. First, during all of the criticism, I don't think anyone attacks Dick personally. It's a widely held belief that as a person Dick seems to be a nice guy. Second, I think you are ignoring the fact that early on Dick had a huge say in shaping HIS football team. Dick wanted the Tampa-2. Dick wanted fast and lightweight D-linemen. Dick wanted to acquire Db's through the draft and Dick got what he wanted. Dick chooses to run soft training camps. For four years he has been unsuccessful and it wasn't because of some kind of structure that was forced upon him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunis69 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I agree with many of your points, if not all. But the question was how appealing the Bills head coaching job really is. When there are only 32 of something and dozens of people want one of those, any opening still is quite appealing. Can they succeed once they take the job ... That's a different question. But maybe that's why you need to look at eager young coaches who don't know what they're signing up for. Maybe you don't want to speculate but any ideas of some eager young coaches that might be viable candidates when Jauron gets fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I agree with many of your points, if not all. But the question was how appealing the Bills head coaching job really is. When there are only 32 of something and dozens of people want one of those, any opening still is quite appealing. Can they succeed once they take the job ... That's a different question. But maybe that's why you need to look at eager young coaches who don't know what they're signing up for. I assume London Fletcher being "one of the most productive linebackers in the league" is one on which you'd disagree. Unless you count tackling the opposing punter warming up on the sidelines because I overran the play as a statistical category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Timbo, Do you think that after Ralph passes, we'll hear all kinds of crazy stories about how the Bills have been "managed" over the last 15 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Do you get the feeling that Ralph is blaming the problems we are experiencing on coaching, front office or both? This question is predicated on the notion that Ralph actually thinks there are problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimGraham Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Timbo, Do you think that after Ralph passes, we'll hear all kinds of crazy stories about how the Bills have been "managed" over the last 15 years? Isn't that always the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimGraham Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Maybe you don't want to speculate but any ideas of some eager young coaches that might be viable candidates when Jauron gets fired? I focus so much on the AFC East that I sometimes feel I don't have a comprehensive grasp on certain questions, and this would be one of those instances. But from the AFC East, I think Brian Schottenheimer (Jets offensive coordinator) and Todd Bowles (Dolphins asst. head coach) are head coach material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I focus so much on the AFC East that I sometimes feel I don't have a comprehensive grasp on certain questions, and this would be one of those instances. But from the AFC East, I think Brian Schottenheimer (Jets offensive coordinator) and Todd Bowles (Dolphins asst. head coach) are head coach material. Will you be at the game Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimGraham Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Will you be at the game Sunday? I will be there. Will I see you and the gang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 I will be there. Will I see you and the gang? You know where to find us. Semi-serious question: if I wanted to fix an opponent-themed tailgate entree -- i.e., jambayala and po' boys for New Orleans, chowdah for Boston -- does Cleveland have any regional specialties? Otherwise, it's burgers and Sahlen's. (Not that there's anything wrong with that...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 And yet the packers lost. but at least it was entertaining The Bills lose and games are downright painful to watch on both sides of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 First, during all of the criticism, I don't think anyone attacks Dick personally. It's a widely held belief that as a person Dick seems to be a nice guy. Second, I think you are ignoring the fact that early on Dick had a huge say in shaping HIS football team. Dick wanted the Tampa-2. Dick wanted fast and lightweight D-linemen. Dick wanted to acquire Db's through the draft and Dick got what he wanted. Dick chooses to run soft training camps. For four years he has been unsuccessful and it wasn't because of some kind of structure that was forced upon him. BLZFAN, Your point is valid that Jauron did have a say in shaping the team. But the caliber of the front office staff was not very competent, to say the least. Do you consider Tom Modrak and John Guy as quality personnel men? They were the primary NFL and college scouts in the organization. Their performance over the past decade has been stupifyingly bad. The departure of London Fletcher after his contract expired was an out right money deal. He was a high quality player who was better than any LB on our roster or later added to the roster. Jauron didn't have a say in the trading of Jason Peters. That again, was a money decision. Langston Walker was an adequate RT. Putting him at LT as a replacement for Peters was an absurdity. Even Walker knew that he was unsuited for the left side of the line. Was Walker overpayed as a backup lineman? Of course. But without a doubt he would have been a very useful backup for the RT and LT spot. As it turned out both Butler and Bell got hurt and the line was left with USFL caliber replacements. Again, the personnel decisions regarding the line were money decisions, not football related decisions. Brandon handled the Peters situation, not Jauron. Let's go back to the Dick Jauron hiring. His hiring by Levy was a joke. You have to remember that Levy was brought in by the owner to replace Donahoe because the aged owner trusted Levy and was comfortable with him. Levy was not qualified to be a GM. He was out of the game for at least five years. He was a preseason analyst for the Bears. The Levy reign was a disaster. After Levy's quick departure the inscrutable owner then elevated the marketing manager, Russ Brandon, to replace Levy. How idiotic is that. The point I'm making is that it is the owner who has created the organizational structure for this dismal franchise. The system he has designed is in place primarily to protect his financial interest with little regard to improving the performance on the field. You would think that the 91 yr old owner would have a sense of urgency to upgrading his laughable team before he departs the scene. I for one don't see and sense a strong desire to change the dynamics of the organization because he is comfortable with the operation as it presently stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimGraham Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You know where to find us. Semi-serious question: if I wanted to fix an opponent-themed tailgate entree -- i.e., jambayala and po' boys for New Orleans, chowdah for Boston -- does Cleveland have any regional specialties? Otherwise, it's burgers and Sahlen's. (Not that there's anything wrong with that...) Kielbasa and pierogies immediately come to mind. But there should be more than that. Let me think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Owens, Lynch, Jackson, Evans... I would say that his is a decent supporting cast. The guy does NOT get rid of the ball. He is gun shy plain and simple. On the pick he threw for a TD Lee was 1 on 1 with a rookie CB. Yet he doesn't audible to deep route and proceeds to throw a 10 yard telegraphed out. Good QB's recognize that and he didn't. Hell I saw it from my seats!All the brains in the world and NO BALLS! I would honestly take Dilfer out of retirement and I bet he could get this team rolling. Edwards isn't a winner, plain and simple. Post #1000 on this thread, on P. 50. I am SO the man. Yeah, Owens, Lynch, Jackson, Evans ... Wood, Hangartner, Levitre, Jonathan Scott, Seth McKinney. I would NOT say that is a decent supporting cast. And if Bell is back this week, that is an improvement, but not a very big one. Aaaaaagh! Post #1001 on P. 51. I'm a hapless nothing again. As a world-famous spy used to say when confounded by KAOS, "Missed it by THHHHHHHHAT much." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 The players aren't good, and it's because the front office didn't collect enough. I don't have as much of a problem with Tom Modrak as others. I think the draft picks have been pretty good, and some decisions have been made based not on the scouting reports but a specific need, want or direction from Levy, Jauron, etc. The main problem to me is keeping their good players when their contracts are up, bringing in free agents and having depth players who actually would make another NFL team. To me, this says it all. Thanks, Tim. Do you think that if we draft a QB next year, that you trust Modrak to pick the right guy? I like his McNabb decision and what he said about Cutler. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sen. John Blutarsky Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Timmah, make sure your boys at ESPN are getting tape of RW's halftime HoF ring ceremony. If the Bills are looking terrible again it won't be a pretty sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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