ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Seeing I live in neither place, tell me what great services are offered in Buffalo that you don't have in Chicago? I don't live in Chicago. Water, schools, and yes... In the winter snow removal and road mantain... We do get garbage removal... But that is separate. Just got my tax bill yesterday... Everything is broken down... By far sevrices like parks and recs are better in WNY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 EDIT: I meant to say those SERVICES are BETTER in WNY. I don't know why you said: "Don't have." Please clarify Chef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Not true... The BFLO area has some of the best services in the country. Take for example where I live in the Chicago area, I pay higher taxes and get LESS services. You are comparing rotten apples to rotten apples. In northern virginia we pay less in sales and property taxes, have better schools, and I've never found reason to complain about the other services. The only real problem seems to be with the inability to keep up with the growth in traffic, a result of people wanting to move here. It's also more business friendly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I don't live in Chicago. Water, schools, and yes... In the winter snow removal and road mantain... We do get garbage removal... But that is separate. Just got my tax bill yesterday... Everything is broken down... By far sevrices like parks and recs are better in WNY. Well now I'm just confused. Is the government failing Buffalo or not? So that's great that the streets in Buffalo are cleared of snow so people can get to all those jobs offered by companies lured to Buffalo with government introduced incentives. No getting back to your original point, why if Buffalo being allowed to fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 You are comparing rotten apples to rotten apples. In northern virginia we pay less in sales and property taxes, have better schools, and I've never found reason to complain about the other services. The only real problem seems to be with the inability to keep up with the growth in traffic, a result of people wanting to move here. It's also more business friendly In do time, your time will come. It always does. You guys are just late in the "growth and services game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Okay... I will play. Why do we as a nation need China and other emeriging nations if said emerging nations don't want to play by a higher standard? Our market and the European markets are big enough to sustain their needs. The US doesn't have to be in every corner of the world and we can play by our higher expectations. Shouldn't it be "race to the top"... Not: "race to the bottom." Your arguments and positions highlight exactly why as a nation we continue to undercut everybody and anybody. Having any corporate taxation - especially excessive taxation - is not "playing by a higher standard" or "racing to the top." Rather, it forces many companies out of business and many employees out of jobs. It prevents many new companies from forming and many new citizens from finding employment. It increases the cost of goods and services on the consumer. Your indifference to trade with China and other emerging international markets only highlights your fundamental ignorance in basic economics. You may not care about additional wealth creation, but most rational Americans do. It's not about wanting to be #1 in everything; it's about wanting the best standard of living that's possible for a 21st century civilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Having any corporate taxation - especially excessive taxation - is not "playing by a higher standard" or "racing to the top." Rather, it forces many companies out of business and many employees out of jobs. It prevents many new companies from forming and many new citizens from finding employment. It increases the cost of goods and services on the consumer. Your indifference to trade with China and other emerging international markets only highlights your fundamental ignorance in basic economics. You may not care about additional wealth creation, but most rational Americans do. It's not about wanting to be #1 in everything; it's about wanting the best standard of living that's possible for a 21st century civilization. I understand what you are saying. Let's just leave it at this... Let's see what happens in the next 15 to 30 years as the population gets older and the newer/last growth areas has reached it's capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Seattle is the Buffalo of the future if people don't wake up and smell the coffee. There is a very real chance that Boeing could leave. HQ is already in Chicago...that makes it easier to go. I could see them moving to Alabamally where they can get non-union labor and tax concessions galore. And then in 20-30 years dumping Alabamally and going elsewhere for the same kind of deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Seattle is the Buffalo of the future if people don't wake up and smell the coffee. There is a very real chance that Boeing could leave. HQ is already in Chicago...that makes it easier to go. I could see them moving to Alabamally where they can get non-union labor and tax concessions galore. And then in 20-30 years dumping Alabamally and going elsewhere for the same kind of deal. That is what I am trying to say. Every place is BFLO of the future and gov't is not solely to blame. It is the exact opposite many times... But, keep blaming gov't. We will see I suppose... I am young enough to maybe see the end game within our borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 That is what I am trying to say. Every place is BFLO of the future and gov't is not solely to blame. It is the exact opposite many times... But, keep blaming gov't. We will see I suppose... I am young enough to maybe see the end game within our borders. Yes, the gov't has nothing to do with it. In fact, the gov't will try to do what it can to entice Boeing to stay. However the unions will probably be the ones to do themselves in. Obviously you can't trust a corporation to "do the right thing" by workers but many unions today go way too far. The recent machinist strike was ridiculous IMHO - you just don't do that during a down economy when the company is already losing orders ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hedd Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 That is what I am trying to say. Every place is BFLO of the future and gov't is not solely to blame. It is the exact opposite many times... But, keep blaming gov't.We will see I suppose... I am young enough to maybe see the end game within our borders.Got yer point originally and its a valid one. I always said Buffalos fate was that of a disposable city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 That is what I am trying to say. Every place is BFLO of the future and gov't is not solely to blame. It is the exact opposite many times... But, keep blaming gov't. We will see I suppose... I am young enough to maybe see the end game within our borders. Maybe the conclusion ought to be that there is no role for big manufacturing companies in our future. And with them, the types of cities they give rise to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Got yer point originally and its a valid one. I always said Buffalos fate was that of a disposable city. It is true that the size of government weighs heavily on the economy here, and needs to be slashed. But those who argue that government is always inefficient ignore how poorly private management is and can be as well. Should we bring in management from Chrysler, GM, Lehman, Bear Stearns, AIG, Merrill, WaMu, UBS, and on and on and on....to run government "efficiently"? There is no general solution. It's possible for governmnt to be efficient and inefficient. It's possible for the private sector to be the same. In fact, the managers we bring in to run government almost always come from private industry, yet they have about as much success as they do in the private sector. Why? Because they don't come in and try to efficiently manage government, they come in to use it to their own advantage. As I've said many a time, government is a redistributive mechanism, and who ever is in charge, redistributes to enrich their own. As long as we remain divided, both sides (Dems and Reps) continue to do the same !@#$ing thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hedd Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 It is true that the size of government weighs heavily on the economy here, and needs to be slashed. But those who argue that government is always inefficient ignore how poorly private management is and can be as well. Should we bring in management from Chrysler, GM, Lehman, Bear Stearns, AIG, Merrill, WaMu, UBS, and on and on and on....to run government "efficiently"?There is no general solution. It's possible for governmnt to be efficient and inefficient. It's possible for the private sector to be the same. In fact, the managers we bring in to run government almost always come from private industry, yet they have about as much success as they do in the private sector. Why? Because they don't come in and try to efficiently manage government, they come in to use it to their own advantage. As I've said many a time, government is a redistributive mechanism, and who ever is in charge, redistributes to enrich their own. As long as we remain divided, both sides (Dems and Reps) continue to do the same !@#$ing thing...Thats why I always cringe when I hear the shopworn phrase run govt like a bidness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 The hugest joke of all is that a guy who can do nothing but call names and spout filth when it suits him is also a "Moderator" who is supposed to exercise some control over the degradation of communication. It's so nice to see someone who exists here only to cause problems pretend she's somehow above the fray. Quick liberal mouthbreathers, join hands with Nozzle and sing about how you've all been wronged at PPP. It never gets old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 No dear sir, to steal a page out of your book... You do nothing BUT call names FIRST... Now I know you can't remember when you do it, but you can go back and look at the facts. It is just an illusion that you are having thinking that I am calling you names first. I don't mind the tone of the board... I have been here for how many years... You are a bright guy Darin, you can make the board a BETTER place. It is up to you. I am trying to do my part. I hope Scott appreciates it. You just can't handle it becasue you have to constantly cut people down. It's called history, Eric. You've been a moron pretty much your entire existence here. Playing nice for a short period of time or two doesn't change that. The fact that the vast majority of humanity is comprised of morons is on display daily on this board. I don't think "Scott" gives a flying crap, nor should he. Everyone who spends any time on ANY politics board that is open to the general public is going to look remarkably similar to PPP. It is what it is and you pretending to be on good behavior and above the fray is just another "side" of your personal ridiculousness. And thanks for telling me I'm a "bright guy". I've been searching for validation from people like you my entire life. You want to stop being called a moron? Stop posting like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Thats why I always cringe when I hear the shopworn phrase run govt like a bidness. Except government is being run EXACTLY like a large business. It's just too bad that so many of you can't see it. Quick, whine about tax payer money being spent to prop up corporations while your masters are awarding TRILLIONS of dollars we don't have to people who helped them get elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 There is no general solution. It's possible for governmnt to be efficient and inefficient. It's possible for the private sector to be the same. In fact, the managers we bring in to run government almost always come from private industry, yet they have about as much success as they do in the private sector. Why? Because they don't come in and try to efficiently manage government, they come in to use it to their own advantage. As I've said many a time, government is a redistributive mechanism, and who ever is in charge, redistributes to enrich their own. As long as we remain divided, both sides (Dems and Reps) continue to do the same !@#$ing thing... At the risk of both of us arguing over overly-broad generalizations, I disagree. What I believe to be more typical is that managers from the private sector expect to come in and make things more efficient (as efficient as the commercial world anyway) with Common Sense 101. And they are blind-sided by the special regulations that government must work under that the private sector does not, and wind up changing very little. - At any small or mid-sized company, if you need a widget you just go out and buy one. Can't do that in the government, you have to initiate a competative bidding process or buy through an in-place mega-contract unless extraordinary efforts have been already expended giving the specific office a measure of purchasing autonomy. - If you want to fire an inept manager or employee, you can do it. In the government, you can't. Same for reassigning people. Same for shutting down failing or obsolete programs. Same for hiring or promoting people - it is out of the hands of line- and mid-level management. - If a company wants to hire temporary workers for a temporary surge, they can. The government can't without years of advanced preparation - hence (in part) the movement towards contracting. - If a company wants to hire the services of a company, they can. The government has to certify all sorts of things from the make-up of the ownership to whether the company is treating it's employees in accordance with various regulations. It is no coincidence that most companies separate government sales from commercial - they are worlds apart in terms of how you go about them and how long they take. And a company that wants to do both will separate the efforts so as to not let one contaminate the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Except government is being run EXACTLY like a large business. It's just too bad that so many of you can't see it. Quick, whine about tax payer money being spent to prop up corporations while your masters are awarding TRILLIONS of dollars we don't have to people who helped them get elected. I draw a very important line between small/midsized business and large business (particularly unionized ones). I don't see much difference between GM and the federal government. GM has about as much flexibility in changing product lines, and shutting down non-productive plants and shedding their workers, as the USG has in ending obsolate programs, or closing bases and installations. And they both seem to be talking alot about "Change." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 NYS government is a joke, and anyone who thinks it can save anything... well... i have a bridge to sell you in Kansas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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