pBills Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I like the idea of trading our #11 for Peppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I agree that is one way to help an organization become successful, but it is no secret either. Almost every team in the league, once again almost every team would like to trade down for multiple picks, but it is so hard to do nowadays. Teams are hesitant to move up because of the increased costs of contracts for higher picks. You can sign 4 or 5 rookies (if not more than that) from the 3rd round and down for what it costs to sign one top 10 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 It depends on what position we want to draft. If we go after a tight end in the first round, we should trade down...because seriously TE is one of the least important positions on the field, and hence teams don't tend to pick them with high picks. It is perfectly reasonable that Brandon Pettigrew will still be available later in the first round, and honestly I think we could trade down at least 10 spots and still get him. I don't believe this is what we should do however. The Bills finally actually have a good corp of skill players, and by securing fundamental positions on the o-line and defensive front we could even be an elite team next year. If we have a chance to get a top caliber rookie who can rush the pass and make an immediate impact as a starter at #11, then we need to take that. #11 is really the perfect position because you can potentially draft immediate impact players which much less value to risk ratio than a true top 5 pick. With our revamped receiving corp, TE is not our #1 priority by a long shot and so we should not waste our best chance of acquiring an immediate impact player on it. We either trade that pick for a good offensive guard or an established pass rusher or we pick up a DE in the draft. In my opinion. I like the way you think. My contention is that I don't believe that there is that great pass rusher at #11 but if there is then I wholeheartedly agree that we stay put and take him. I still think that sliding back in the rd we can still get a comparable talent at this position and compensated at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Whitner?? I'm not sure what your point is. Is it because we picked him with the 8th pick?? If so he's still on the team and while he might not be considered a bluechipper at this point in time it doesn't mean that he's not or won't be an important part to this team or defense. I'd rather swing and miss than not be up at the plate at all. I'd like to see the Bills dictate than just be grateful to have a pick. The way that we have been drafting it hasn't put us over the top as of yet. If mediocrity is what we are going to shoot for than let's at least get compensated for it so when it's time to take the shot on a gamebreaker we will be able to do it because we have the resources to put ourselves in that position. my point was that he wasn't picked under Donahoe, that was all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 my point was that he wasn't picked under Donahoe, that was all In hindsight it wasn't a terrible pick. I suppose that some fans would have liked to see us take Ngata but I really don't have a problem with us taking Whitner. Check it out for yourself and tell me what you would have liked better, if at all. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft...mp;round=round1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 In hindsight it wasn't a terrible pick. I suppose that some fans would have liked to see us take Ngata but I really don't have a problem with us taking Whitner. Check it out for yourself and tell me what you would have liked better, if at all. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft...mp;round=round1 I'm right there with you. I don't mind the Whitner pick. The top 10 picks are littered with busts every year, to get a solid player and team leader is not a blown pick (and who is still now only 23). I wasn't trying to argue that Whitner was a bad pick, I wash just pointing out that he wasn't picked under Donahoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I think that we should stand our ground at #11 and draft another Donte Whitner caliber player. How many of you just threw up in your mouth a little bit?! Of course, if the Bills surround Whitner (and the new guy) with enough great players, they'll be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satx_bills_fan Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 It seems like we're always selecting between #11-#13 the last few years. It's never high enough to be able to get a blue chip prospect but it's at the top end of the next tier of players. I would like to see us be able to have the resource to be able to move up into the top 6 or 7 picks where a team stands the chance of taking a top tier prospect. In general I agree with trading down, although for the most part, #11s of years past have been very successful (so I dont agree with 'its not high enough'): 2007 - patrick willis 2006 - jay cutler 2005 - demarcus ware 2004 - ben rothlisberger 2003 - marcus trufant 2002 - dwight freeney 2001 - dan morgan 2000 - ron dayne (!) 1999 - dante culpepper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 There are about 2 players I like at 11th this year.....Everette Brown and BJ Raji. If both those guys are gone and there is a great chance they will be.....I have no problem trading down in this draft. I am slowly starting to come to the realization that the only way we are going to get talent onto this team is by drafting it because unless it is a publicity stunt to sell tickets Ralph isn't going to spend the money on free agents... Pat Thomas? Come on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I don't mind the Whitner pick either but at the time I wanted either Ngata or Brodrick Bunkley who has also become an excellent DT. In an aside, we were talking about Alex Mack's bench press on another thread...Bunkley hoisted 225 lbs. 44 times at the combine (for what it's worth). In the last two seasons (his first two as a starter), he has 8 sacks. Not bad for a DT. And he fits our system perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 In general I agree with trading down, although for the most part, #11s of years past have been very successful (so I dont agree with 'its not high enough'):2007 - patrick willis 2006 - jay cutler 2005 - demarcus ware 2004 - ben rothlisberger 2003 - marcus trufant 2002 - dwight freeney 2001 - dan morgan 2000 - ron dayne (!) 1999 - dante culpepper I'm not disagreeing that good/great players haven't been taken with a #11 pick. I just don't think that the one or two players that would help us in this year's draft is not going to be available for us to take. Based on that assumption I believe that a trade down would be more beneficial for us not only in this year's draft but also possibly in next year's draft as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'm not disagreeing that good/great players haven't been taken with a #11 pick. I just don't think that the one or two players that would help us in this year's draft is not going to be available for us to take. Based on that assumption I believe that a trade down would be more beneficial for us not only in this year's draft but also possibly in next year's draft as well. Under normal conditions, extra picks would help a team such as the Bills because Ralph simply doesn't have as much cash as the richer owners, thus making free agency more of a struggle. Also, there is never going to be a better way to build a football team for the long term than the draft. Sounds good, right? In 06, Dick Levy did have an extra early 3rd. They botched that draft so much that it is still killing us. I guess my point is that while extra picks are great, giving them away for a dud such as McCargo and wasting them on defensive backs when your lines are weak isn't so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Seriously though, I think that having a good head coach and QB are the main ingredients to NFL success. I give Jauron no shot at becoming a good head coach, Edwards is still an unknown right now. As far as the trading down thing, the Colts and Steelers are very successful and yet remain franchises that do not move around on draft day very much at all. Yes, it's all about what we DO with our draft picks. Good players can be had in ANY round of the draft. Our Super Bowl years are largely attributable to outstanding scouting and outstanding drafting -- getting good players and lots of them. We need to do that again. We don't need to have a top-ten pick every single year to be successful (though I do think it helps to have that every now & again to land a real difference maker -- e.g. a Cornelius Bennett or a Bruce Smith), but it's what a team does AFTER they make their high-profile 1st-round pick that will greatly determine the success of the franchise because you've got to have a strong supporting cast all around or success just won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Yes, it's all about what we DO with our draft picks. Good players can be had in ANY round of the draft. Our Super Bowl years are largely attributable to outstanding scouting and outstanding drafting -- getting good players and lots of them. We need to do that again. We don't need to have a top-ten pick every single year to be successful (though I do think it helps to have that every now & again to land a real difference maker -- e.g. a Cornelius Bennett or a Bruce Smith), but it's what a team does AFTER they make their high-profile 1st-round pick that will greatly determine the success of the franchise because you've got to have a strong supporting cast all around or success just won't happen. The Bills simply have not drafted well. The strength of the team, the veteran leadership, should be the drafts that happened 4-8 years ago. The Bills have Parrish, Evans, Kelsay, McGee, Reed, Denney, and Schobel. 3 of those guys are DEs and people here are wanting a DE in this upcoming draft. It's so pathetic that Kelsay is counted among the team leaders because of his training habits, despite being pwned on the field. 3 of them are WRs (1 of those is in fact just a punt catcher) and people here wanted a WR last year and they brought in TO via FA this year. That is a pretty sad commentary and paltry haul for 42 overall picks. 0 QBs, RBs, TEs, or OL. 0 defensive players up the middle. Thank you Modrak and Donahoe. Killer job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 What has contibuted for teams like New England and Philadelphia to become successful is the way that they accumalated draft picks. We are always rebuilding so our draft picks were an immediate need. I believe that we now have a pretty solid core with some areas of need. In this draft I think that our two pressing needs for our 1st rd pick would be the DLine or the OLine (aren't you sick of hearing that?). The DLine (DE more so) prospects are suspect. The ones who appear to be available for us when we pick at #11 have been projected to either fall to us or even slide as far as early 2nd rd (Maybin, Ayers, Jackson etc., etc.). My suggestion would be for us to trade back in the first and select somebody like DT Peria Jerry, who in the last third of the rd would be a tremendous value and would also fill an important need for our team. This draft is also projected to having a plethora of OL prospects. Here it appears that we have a glaring hole to fill at the LG position. I haven't read or heard too much about anyone from here or abroad predicting that our first pick at #11 be an offensive lineman. This need should be adequately addressed in the 2nd rd or even later in the 1st admirably if we were to trade down. I suppose that there is plenty of people who would love for us to take TE Pettigrew but I just don't see it in the 1st rd for us, especially at #11. The TE position has never been a big priority for us traditionally and this is a position that has averaged only 1.5 TEs going in the first rd in the last several years. Our core is not that solid to allow us to afford this luxury. We would be better served to either take a TE in the 3rd or 4th rd or actually use one of those picks for a trade for a current veteran. Obviously trading one of those picks for Tony Scheffler would be ideal and regardless of the current false rumors, I do believe that this trade will still happen. If not, we go into the draft and select one like Shawn Nelson, Jared Cook or Chase Coffman. The point is that there really isn't someone that we have to have at the #11 pick. A trade down and gathering either extra picks in this year's draft or in next year's draft, which is supposed to be more lucrative, especially at the QB position. I would like to see us in a great position in the 1st rd next year and not because we earned it with a losing record. I think that if we could get ourselves in the top end of the 1st rd next year we would have an awful lot of clout in continuing trading with other teams. The QBs that will be available in the first rd could propel us in really solidifying our team with more quality draft picks. It would be perpetual based on us getting ourselves in this draft position. It can all start in this year's draft. I suggested the above scenario but even if someone wanted to put a different twist on it I think that the point would be similiar. We need to start accumalting draft picks instead of just using them when we're slotted or packaging them for trade ups. It seems like we're always selecting between #11-#13 the last few years. It's never high enough to be able to get a blue chip prospect but it's at the top end of the next tier of players. I would like to see us be able to have the resource to be able to move up into the top 6 or 7 picks where a team stands the chance of taking a top tier prospect. It killed me to see New England have the #7 pick last year and then trade down with New Orleans to the #10 spot and STILL be able to take LB Jerod Mayo! We need to be able to get ourselves eventually into this type of position and it can start this year with our 1st rd pick at #11. Trade downs are the white whale of the draft, everyone wants to harpoon one but its way easier said than done. NE was at 7 last year, 4 spots higher than we are, NO traded up from 10, one spot higher than we are before trading. Point being, who is going to trade up to get the 11 spot? If it happens, it will only be because some player someone is hot for slips and is unexpectedly there at 11. I am not saying it doesn't make sense, just that I will beleive it when I see it. Every year there are a slew of posts about trading down and every year, it doesn't happen and afterward, its proponents claim the Bills could have but were just too stupid to do it. I just don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 We just used a mid-draft pick on a TE last year. You want to use another 4th on a TE two years in a row? If you want a significant upgrade at the position through the draft you have to pull the trigger a bit earlier. These trade-down tirades are tiresome. You can't just force someone to take your pick; another team has to be absolutely sold on a guy that they are 100% sure will be unavailable to them at their slot. Top tier 1st rounders are becoming more of crap shoot every year as their guaranteed money expands. People seem to think that the Bills need to hoard draft picks to be successful. Why? "cuz that's what the patriots do." News flash, it has a lot more to do with the guys making the picks, not the # of them. This is a much deeper crop of TE's than last year. There is not a big drop off from the 1st to the 6-7 rated player. The Bills need to do a better strategic job in player personnel both free agents and the drafts. It appears that they are always forced into a corner and reaching to filll needs. The Pats are the opposite of the Bills in this regard. I love their approach to managing the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts