Alphadawg7 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Stop. You have absolutely no idea what a NFL team was going to do. A lot of reports had the Giants targeting McCargo. I have no problem with the Bills trading up to get a player they want. The problem is if they take the wrong guy, which McCargo was. And it is incredibly dumb to write off Poz in what was his essentially his rookie year and helped the defense improved from 30th to 14th. This is the perfect draft to trade down in because it is rich with the Bills needs. But as others have mentioned, it is hard to find a trade partner. I would love to see something where we can pick up an extra 2nd where we can have a good target on 3 of our 4 major needs (DE, TE, C, DT). Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotPocket Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I agree that trading down might be the best option if we can get a good deal. This draft seems alot like last years, alot of maybe could be sorta good, but at the 11 spot, I don't see any "must have" guy that will be on the table. Why not stock up on late 1st/ 2nd round picks and help the team with the depth it really needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I agree that trading down might be the best option if we can get a good deal. This draft seems alot like last years, alot of maybe could be sorta good, but at the 11 spot, I don't see any "must have" guy that will be on the table. Why not stock up on late 1st/ 2nd round picks and help the team with the depth it really needs. This cracks me up as it keeps coming up in this thread...if you dont see a must have guy or a guy worthy of the #11 pick, then why would anyone else trade up with us and give up HIGH value picks like a second rounder to get that slot? I mean seriously...the Bills have a glaring need at just about every critical position (DE, LB, OL, TE, WR, S, DT, QB)...so if we cant find a guy that plays one of those positions worthy of the #11 slot, how on Earth would another team see someone so valuable that they would give us a high value pick like a 3rd or 2nd rounder to get to that slot to get him? If someone is trading up to get a player there, that tells you it was probably a player we shouldnt have overlooked that is so highly regarded by another team (probably with a better FO) that they would give up high value picks to get him. Quite frankly, unless that guy the team trading up to draft is a CB (about the only area of our team we dont need help in), then its a guy at a need position for us too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 This cracks me up as it keeps coming up in this thread...if you dont see a must have guy or a guy worthy of the #11 pick, then why would anyone else trade up with us and give up HIGH value picks like a second rounder to get that slot? That was a ridiculous question. Maybe because they see a player in particular that they strongly seek? Or, maybe there is a player left that their staff thinks would have a great impact at a position of need? You make it sound as if draft day trades don't happen. They do in fact happen, your tangent notwithstanding. After the 06 draft, Levy said on Sirius that he had numerous ofers to trade down. What are you doing, pretending that there are no trade downs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 First of all, not one person in the universe EVER truly knows what one teams war room truly wants. Do you even know how much disinformation is put out for this very reason? Heck, ESPN had been reporting that Shannahan was close to signing in KC, yet as the story developed and was revealed the two had NEVER even spoke about it and Shannahan (as he said before) again stated he wont be coaching this next year. Second, just because a team wants a player, doesnt mean there isnt another player they want almost as bad. So, how do you know that the Skins were not eyeing both Ramsey and someone else? If this was this case, why would they trade up? Maybe the guy they are eyeing is the same guy the Rams picked...so why would the Rams risk trading down? How do you know that the Skins were not trying to entice the Rams to trade down so they can get the guy the Rams were going to take? Third, just because a trade does not happen does NOT mean a trade wasnt attempted. I swear, some fans think everything that goes on in those rooms is reported to the media and that whatever is mentioned to the media is absolute truth. I would bet that less than 20% of what really is going on between teams in terms of trade discussions is ever even disclosed. I would say its safe to say that maybe at best the info given to the public is less than 40% accurate too. Bottom line, no one really knows what is going on, who a team truly covets or how bad, etc, etc. So just because the Bills dont trade down, doesnt mean they didnt explore it. In fact, it's pretty safe to say that there isnt a team in football that doesnt explore these ideas, especially the Bills, who have shown the tendency to move both up and down in recent drafts. The reason I know that the Skins wanted Ramsey was because that's all everybody was talking about on the Skins pages and on ESPN, and they did not need an undersized middle linebacker (although they eventually wound up with a pretty good one in Fletcher), and the Rams have a history of showing off and running arrogant drafts. I heard Charley Armey on the radio prior to a draft bragging, and this is a quote, "We found a long snapper I guarantee nobody else even knows about." Then they drafted him. Chris Massey. If nobody else knows about him, WHY DRAFT HIM? They took Trung Canidate in the first because Martz was showing off, and the guy was a stiff, and they had Marshall Faulk at the time. They drafted Jacoby Shepard in the 2nd so the world would see how smart they are, and guess what? They wasted a 3rd and a 4th on Milton Wynn and some other wideout when they already had Bruce and Holt. They were so focused on showing the world how brilliant they were taking Robert Thomas of UCLA in the first round....not the second, well most had him late second to early 4th. And he sucked. And drafts like those turned them into the crappy franchise they are....you think it's hard being a Bills fan. The Rams had won a Super Bowl and had 3 first round picks in the next draft and blew every one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 That was a ridiculous question. Maybe because they see a player in particular that they strongly seek? Or, maybe there is a player left that their staff thinks would have a great impact at a position of need? You make it sound as if draft day trades don't happen. They do in fact happen, your tangent notwithstanding. After the 06 draft, Levy said on Sirius that he had numerous ofers to trade down. What are you doing, pretending that there are no trade downs? Not at all...I am saying if anyone we draft at #11 is such a stretch as posters are saying and not worth the #11 pick, then no one should trade up to get them...I mean we need just about every position there is...so if NO ONE is good enough at any of those positions, then that is basically saying that there is no one in the draft when we pick at 11 worth taking regardless of positon...which is just absurd. I am saying that it is crazy to say that no one is worth the 11 pick that we will need on this team...there are CLEARLY players worthy of the #11 pick... So you and I actually agree and I think you just misunderstood my post...my point was about how absurd it is to say that anyone we take at 11 will be stretch...because if it was true then no one would trade up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The reason I know that the Skins wanted Ramsey was because that's all everybody was talking about on the Skins pages and on ESPN Oh, got it...because fan boards like this one for the Skins and ESPN said it was true...thats how you know it was true Wasnt ESPN the same network that announced Shannahan was close to being the HC of the Chiefs and then had to eat crow when they found out the Shannahan and KC never even spoke and Shannahan for the second time said he will not coach this year? And as far as the fan boards go, I am sure the fan boards had a moderator in the Skins War room so they could post all that was going on from the inside...You know, the same room the media isnt allowed in...it all makes sense now...sorry I ever doubted your certainty... LMAO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 In short, I will speculate that the Bills are in the drivers seat in terms of trading down. What do you think will happen if I may ask? I agree, the Bills hold all of the high cards, there is absolutely no way that they can fark this up. Iffin I had to guess, I would expect them to stand pat and choose either a d-lineman or Pettigrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I agree, the Bills hold all of the high cards, there is absolutely no way that they can fark this up. Iffin I had to guess, I would expect them to stand pat and choose either a d-lineman or Pettigrew. For the record, its a lot easier to trade up then to trade down. If you want to trade up bad enough, you can keep upping your offer until you do, meaning you are in control more at this point...but trading down relies solely on the other teams willingness to part with something valuable enough to warrant you trading down and risking not getting the players our team covets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 For the record, its a lot easier to trade up then to trade down. If you want to trade up bad enough, you can keep upping your offer until you do, meaning you are in control more at this point...but trading down relies solely on the other teams willingness to part with something valuable enough to warrant you trading down and risking not getting the players our team covets. If I remember the statistics...but, don't quote me without looking this up yourself...75% of draft day trades are teams trading up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 It looks as if the better centers guards and tight ends are going to be available in round two. We could use both of them. There is the possibility that a standout linebacker like Maluga of USC or other needed player might possibly be available at 11 and worthy of taking. There are a bunch of players at the 11 to 16 picks for whom some teams will probably be frothing at the mouth and ready to deal. Robert Ayers of Tennessee who looked extraordinary at the Senior Bowl might be a find in late round two or early round three for example. Nice pickup with an extra pick that we might get out of trading down. http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDr.../rock012309.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If I remember the statistics...but, don't quote me without looking this up yourself...75% of draft day trades are teams trading up. Makes sense...I mean look at Ditka...he wanted Ricky Williams so bad he traded his whole draft for him. If a team wants a player bad enough, they can give up more and more until its a deal a team just cant turn down, so in sense, they have more control when they want to trade up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I agree that trading down might be the best option if we can get a good deal. This draft seems alot like last years, alot of maybe could be sorta good, but at the 11 spot, I don't see any "must have" guy that will be on the table. Why not stock up on late 1st/ 2nd round picks and help the team with the depth it really needs. Because we need starters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If I remember the statistics...but, don't quote me without looking this up yourself...75% of draft day trades are teams trading up. Had me for a second! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Had me for a second! Lol...I took it to mean, that 75% of the trades were instigated by teams moving up with increasing offers...which still makes sense... Good one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Stop. You have absolutely no idea what a NFL team was going to do. A lot of reports had the Giants targeting McCargo. I have no problem with the Bills trading up to get a player they want. The problem is if they take the wrong guy, which McCargo was. Oh the irony. You spent almost 3 years talking how McCargo was the right player. And it is incredibly dumb to write off Poz in what was his essentially his rookie year and helped the defense improved from 30th to 14th. Nobody is writing him off. He's a good young player. Was that a good trade on draft day? Absolutely not. The Bills surrendered a high 3rd round pick to move up 9 spots in the 2nd round which is way too steep a price to pay. Making matters worse, David Harris was still on the board, making it highly likely that one of them would have fallen to the Bills when they selected. Surrendering draft picks to get "their guy" is not a good strategy, particularly when you're not a contender. This is the perfect draft to trade down in because it is rich with the Bills needs. But as others have mentioned, it is hard to find a trade partner. I would love to see something where we can pick up an extra 2nd where we can have a good target on 3 of our 4 major needs (DE, TE, C, DT). That's funny, the draft was rich with Bills needs in 2006 and they traded up for McCargo. Rumor has it the Bills tried to trade back into the first round last year in hopes of landing Devin Thomas. Thank goodness they couldn't find a trading partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Oh, got it...because fan boards like this one for the Skins and ESPN said it was true...thats how you know it was true Wasnt ESPN the same network that announced Shannahan was close to being the HC of the Chiefs and then had to eat crow when they found out the Shannahan and KC never even spoke and Shannahan for the second time said he will not coach this year? And as far as the fan boards go, I am sure the fan boards had a moderator in the Skins War room so they could post all that was going on from the inside...You know, the same room the media isnt allowed in...it all makes sense now...sorry I ever doubted your certainty... LMAO... And you factor in the Rams incompetence? Does that come from a Fan's Chat Room? Just examine their drafts, and how they have gone from Riches to Rags, because of idiotic drafts. Look, I know you think you're smarter than I just because your theory makes sense to you and mine does not. And I have every right to be laughing at you, because you could be as wrong as I could be right. But there is not need to be an ass about this. We disagree. I'm not laughing at you because I think you're wrong. In fact, I think it's just a disagreement. Is it a coincidence that the Skins took exactly who everybody in the country thought they were going to take? And is it a coincidence that the Rams continued on in their merry cocky way and took a guy about 30 slots above where he was ranked? And that he sucked? They ran to the podium like Renaldo Nehemiah with that stupid pick, and the Skins got up there on their heels and took their future mediocity at quarterback. Both were jumping with joy. I don't really know why I'm getting into this. I don't care about the Rams or the Redskins. My point was, I think that teams should take more of a commodities broker stance when it comes to the draft. Value is a lot easier to calculate at the top of the draft than later on. The Bills have swung and missed a few times by coveting specific players rather than getting value with the early picks. But it's a matter of speculation. I know nothing more about this crap than anybody else on this board. I read the mock information and the player profiles, and I get worked up every year about the draft. Then, usually these days I get to watch my team wallow in mediocrity. And that doesn't make me laugh my ass off. I don't really understand how that would make anybody hunkered in front of his laptop laugh at another Bills fan. By the way, it's Shanahan, not Shannahan, no matter what the boards say. I have a picture of a story in the Milwaukee Journal from the late 70's. The headline was "Isaiah Thomas to Turn Pro? No Way, He Says!!" Exactly a week later, the headline read "Isaiah Thomas to Turn Pro." So, don't be shocked if Shanahan ends up coaching someplace next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 And you factor in the Rams incompetence? Does that come from a Fan's Chat Room? You are arguing with the wrong poster...I made no comments about the Rams quality of drafts... Point I am making is that just becauase something doesnt happen does not mean it wasnt attempted. And just because the media says something doesnt mean its true as it is wrong as much as it is right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckyFillUps Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I say stay at 11 and reach for DHB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got_Wood Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 There are plenty of guys that other teams would want to trade up for. Here is a list of candidates: - Brian Orakpo - Everette Brown - BJ Raji - Rey Maualaga - Jeremy Maclin - Malcolm Jenkins - Jason Smith - Mark Sanchez - James Laurinaitis - Chris Wells - Knowshon Moreno - Aaron Curry - Aaron Maybin So all of these guys are potential stars in the league. Definitely worth trading up for. Why the hell would we trade out of that position?!?! Another guy said it right in this thread... WE NEED STARTERS. Lets draft some guys that have a high potential of doing so. We're one of the youngest teams in the league. If anything we should TRADE AWAY some draft picks for veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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