BuffaloBill Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/0...of-the-tampa-2/ best line(s) in the piece: "no middle linebacker running down the middle of the field trying to keep up with a slot receiver who runs a 4.3 in the 40" followed closely by: They don’t have a “top” to their defense so that nobody can get behind them. They don’t wait — they attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Opinions change every year. When the Bucs won the Super Bowl and most recently, when the Colts did, Cover 2 was great and those zone blitzes were being "phased out." Chicaga ran a great Cover 2 only a few years ago, one that ranked number one and only allowed 12 points per game. What a ridiculous article. There is a huge difference between fact and opinion. And it's on us to know the difference. This guy is spewing opinion. No defense, no scheme will work unless you have the personnel to run it. Period. I'm not saying Cover 2 is the best scheme out there but this article is so absurd. The Cover 2 will work when you have a solid D-Line to pressure the QB, quick LBs who can cover and a top safety to make plays. Defenses evolve, yes, but if you actually listen to the DCs themselves and not the talking heads, you'd know that these are just base packages and that they run different formations and variations throughout their play calling. It's way to easy to point and find similarities in teams that are in the playoffs and teams that aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I can't imagine that there's anyone who loves the defensive scheme the Bills run. It has to be the most boring defense I've ever seen. And Bowen's point about a QB like Warner picking it apart was spot on. See also Brady's performances vs. the Bills last year. A team that doesn't make getting pressure on the QB a priority is a team that's going nowhere. Care to guess how many times Brady saw a cover-2 defense, let alone the tampa-2 version of it, against us last season? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The problem with the --- is in order for it to be successfull it almost has to be a perfect storm so to speak. You need a dominant DE AKA ----, you need a dominant DT that could disrupt & penetrate the backfield creating havoc AKA ---you need a versatile LB that could run sideline to sideline AKA ----- & you need a dominant Safety that is fast enough to cover the wrs & big enough to come into the box & stop the run AKA ----. These type of guys are extremely tough to find. It may have worked in -----, where you had X,Y, & Z on the D, but we just do not have that type of personal. Not many teams do. It is a bullsh*t defense & I wish they would scrap it. Fill in the blanks with any scheme, and the answer is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Tigre Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/0...of-the-tampa-2/ That's an interesting article. An effective Tampa 2 depends on the front 4 getting consistent pressure on the QB. With the lack of talent we now have at DE,the Tampa 2 is actually a very bad fit for the Bills personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Opinions change every year. When the Bucs won the Super Bowl and most recently, when the Colts did, Cover 2 was great and those zone blitzes were being "phased out." Chicaga ran a great Cover 2 only a few years ago, one that ranked number one and only allowed 12 points per game. What a ridiculous article. There is a huge difference between fact and opinion. And it's on us to know the difference. This guy is spewing opinion. No defense, no scheme will work unless you have the personnel to run it. Period. I'm not saying Cover 2 is the best scheme out there but this article is so absurd. The Cover 2 will work when you have a solid D-Line to pressure the QB, quick LBs who can cover and a top safety to make plays. Defenses evolve, yes, but if you actually listen to the DCs themselves and not the talking heads, you'd know that these are just base packages and that they run different formations and variations throughout their play calling. It's way to easy to point and find similarities in teams that are in the playoffs and teams that aren't. Bingo! Like all of a sudden a successful pass defense that's been around for over 30 years and used by every team over that span is all of a sudden passe. It's all about the players you have first and foremost. If you don't have enough good football players it doesn't matter what kind of front you show or what kind of coverages you play behind it. Amazing how that's lost on so many. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I dont care what type of defense you run; Tampa-2, 4-3, 3-4, etc, good defenses get pressure on the QB with a few men as possible (4-5). The Bills can switch to whatever formation/scheme we want, but until we can generate consistent pressure without having to send 6-7 guys all the time, we aren't going to be a top tier defense. Each defense relies on pressure from different places (ie-the OLB in the 3-4), and each defense has a few key positions where you most likely need a top player to be good (NT in the 3-4, UT in the Tampa-2). If you get those players in those key positions, your defense will most likely take off and be good, regardless of whatever scheme you chose to run. There's actually something to be said about going against the grainof what the rest of the NFL is doing. Reason being is that lots of teams running similar defenses means lots of teams going after similar players in the draft. Why did Tampa get so good running the Tampa-2? Because they got skilled players that weren't fits in the traditional 3-4 and 4-3 defenses. Teams were shying away from the "smaller" players, so all that talent was there for the picking. With so many teams switching to the 3-4 now, that means that big NTs and pass rushing OLBs are going to be all the rage. That could cause talent fit for other defenses to drop further than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The Bears are a Tampa-2 defense. Although they didn't buy into the "small front" concept. Their DT rotation has guys in the low 300s, unlike the Colts D last year which had guys that barely made 250 anchoring the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Care to guess how many times Brady saw a cover-2 defense, let alone the tampa-2 version of it, against us last season? GO BILLS!!! I will confess ignorance as far as how often we actually run our supposed defense. And to be honest, my point is not to bash the Tampa 2 per se, because it's been successful various places and when mixed in as part of a defense. My problem is with whatever the hell defense we run that doesn't make getting pressure on the QB a priority. I'm not an X's and O's guy, I'm just speaking as a fan and saying what I find enjoyable vs. frustrating to watch. The Bills D does have a fundamental problem in that the pass rush from the front 4 was about as bad as I've ever seen, so it's hard to imagine a scheme that would be truly "successful" in the sense of being a dominant defense. But I'd rather watch a D that did whatever it took to get pressure and hits on the QB, even if it meant giving up a big play, rather than a D that sits back and hopes an unpressured Kurt Warner or Tom Brady will make a mistake in their 9 minute march down the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Just curious, as the topic is defense and getting pressure or the lack of it, did Marv ever give any explanation or rationale for the ludicrous contracts given Kelsay and Schobel? The D-line situation is looking worse than before given the Marv/GM moved made when here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I will confess ignorance as far as how often we actually run our supposed defense. And to be honest, my point is not to bash the Tampa 2 per se, because it's been successful various places and when mixed in as part of a defense. My problem is with whatever the hell defense we run that doesn't make getting pressure on the QB a priority. I'm not an X's and O's guy, I'm just speaking as a fan and saying what I find enjoyable vs. frustrating to watch. The Bills D does have a fundamental problem in that the pass rush from the front 4 was about as bad as I've ever seen, so it's hard to imagine a scheme that would be truly "successful" in the sense of being a dominant defense. But I'd rather watch a D that did whatever it took to get pressure and hits on the QB, even if it meant giving up a big play, rather than a D that sits back and hopes an unpressured Kurt Warner or Tom Brady will make a mistake in their 9 minute march down the field. I agree, I do not care what defense they run, get some heat on the qb. I remember Buddy Ryan once said, "my defense is going to put pressure on the qb & I dont care how many guys I have to blitz. If it takes 3 guys I will send 3, if it takes 4 guys I will send 4 if it takes 5 guys I will send 5 & so on." The point is get pressure on the qb is the name of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I will confess ignorance as far as how often we actually run our supposed defense. And to be honest, my point is not to bash the Tampa 2 per se, because it's been successful various places and when mixed in as part of a defense. My problem is with whatever the hell defense we run that doesn't make getting pressure on the QB a priority. I'm not an X's and O's guy, I'm just speaking as a fan and saying what I find enjoyable vs. frustrating to watch. The Bills D does have a fundamental problem in that the pass rush from the front 4 was about as bad as I've ever seen, so it's hard to imagine a scheme that would be truly "successful" in the sense of being a dominant defense. But I'd rather watch a D that did whatever it took to get pressure and hits on the QB, even if it meant giving up a big play, rather than a D that sits back and hopes an unpressured Kurt Warner or Tom Brady will make a mistake in their 9 minute march down the field. Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp regardless of the Xs and Os. You are absolutely right; if a defense can't pressure the QB it just doesn't matter what scheme you run out of what front or what coverage behind that front. I wasn't trying to call you out with my post. I was just trying to get across that the easiest way to force a team to abandon a preferred pass coverage is to line up in a formation that precludes them from playing it. When the Pats (or any team for that matter) line up in their 4 and 5 wide formations 75% of the time like we saw last year we can't play a cover-2 zone. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp regardless of the Xs and Os. You are absolutely right; if a defense can't pressure the QB it just doesn't matter what scheme you run out of what front or what coverage behind that front. I wasn't trying to call you out with my post. I was just trying to get across that the easiest way to force a team to abandon a preferred pass coverage is to line up in a formation that precludes them from playing it. When the Pats (or any team for that matter) line up in their 4 and 5 wide formations 75% of the time like we saw last year we can't play a cover-2 zone. GO BILLS!!! No worries, I wasn't sure if you were calling me out or not but I didn't want to pass myself off as some kind of expert. I just really hope the Bills do something to address the lack of QB pressure or I think we're doomed to the same frustrations we've seen the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 The Bears are a Tampa-2 defense. Although they didn't buy into the "small front" concept. Their DT rotation has guys in the low 300s, unlike the Colts D last year which had guys that barely made 250 anchoring the line. Actually the Bears DTs are 'classic' T2 size.....all around 295-310lbs. They don't have the massive road grader type (NGata 345lbs) which is what a lot of people are hankering for around here. The Colts use extremely light DTs.......even for the T2 scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 the Cover 2 is a wuss defense for coaches that coach not to lose i dont like any scheme that counts on the offense to make a mistake and not put consistant drives together...that might work against bad teams and QBs but guys like Brady and Warner will pick it apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 the Cover 2 is a wuss defense for coaches that coach not to lose i dont like any scheme that counts on the offense to make a mistake and not put consistant drives together. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Link? So if he provides a link to some random website saying that, you'd be satisfied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Anything written by Matt Bowen is not a must read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 the Cover 2 is a wuss defense for coaches that coach not to lose.... I don't think that statement is valid. DJ may well be a coach that coaches not to lose......who happens to use the T2 D. It does not follow that all coaches who use the T2 D coach not to lose as well. T2 Superbowl winners Bucs 02 Colts 06 T2 Conference winners Rams 01 Bears 06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 And if that is the case, why is it that every time the aggressive Ravens D goes up against the Colts, Manning torches them offensively, followed by their pansy/passive/whatever D forces turnovers, to again allow Manning to paste them? Even in their worst years as a D, the Colts have owned that aggressive Defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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