/dev/null Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Fixed it. You can have my chili dog when you pry it from my cold dead hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 You can have my chili dog when you pry it from my cold dead hand And you blame your diarrhea on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 The real winners in Obama's tax plan are accountants, because pretty much everyone will have to hire one to do their taxes to take advantage of all the numerous small tax credits that are part of his plan that individuals and families will have to itemize or apply for. It's not nearly the giveaway that Republicans claim, and not nearly the relief that Democrats and Obama claims, unless you know how to take advantage of it (as well as other things like the break you get if you go to a community college, etc.) So is our job as citizens best determined by fat-cat accountants who will determine how to get more money from other people to "take advantage" of the system? Well that's Change I can say yes to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 So is our job as citizens best determined by fat-cat accountants who will determine how to get more money from other people to "take advantage" of the system? Well that's Change I can say yes to. Take time out from your endless, mindless, witless bashing to comprehend that I was criticizing Obama and elements of his plan there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Take time out from your endless, mindless, witless bashing to comprehend that I was criticizing Obama and elements of his plan there. Hey, the man knows what he does best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 When did he say this? Last I heard, the middle class and below would get enough tax cuts that some 40% of the country wouldn't pay any income tax. That's hardly "everyone". Now admittedly, I haven't been following that particular issue too closely, so he may have Changed his plan without my hearing of it. No, that's now (est 38%). Under Obama it is estimated to rise to 50%, primarily because of the elimination of income tax on retirees receiving less than 50k a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Take time out from your endless, mindless, witless bashing to comprehend that I was criticizing Obama and elements of his plan there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 No, that's now (est 38%). Under Obama it is estimated to rise to 50%, primarily because of the elimination of income tax on retirees receiving less than 50k a year. With all the baby boomers retiring over the next several years that takes a lot of money away from the government. I kind of like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Medicaid technically isn't universal to begin with. But that's rather beside the point. I have yet to see anyone who advocates "universal" health care specify whether "universal" applies to the accessibility of health coverage or availability of the care. People never twig to the fact that those are two separate things, and there is no government program that will guarantee health care to everyone, short of federalizing the entire medical industry, including manufacture, R&D, education, and care. People will always be denied care, as long as there is any aspect of medicine is market-driven. You could look at the Canadian system. No one who posses "une carte soleil" can be refused care. It just happens that if your injury/illness is non-threatening (i.e. you didn't walk in with a stab room directly in the heart or a gun shot wound, you're going to have to wait a good 10-12 hours in the EM for a doctor to see you) It is getting worse though. Doctors are not paid nearly close to what they would be getting paid in the US of A and most are overworked as well as nurses are also extremely overworked due to lack of staff. This is forcing them to flee to places where they will be better paid and leaving the canucks with what's left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 With all the baby boomers retiring over the next several years that takes a lot of money away from the government. I kind of like that. Like we really need the AARP to wield an even bigger influence in our politics... just what we need: another voting block who won't be contributing to the costs of the programs politicians propose to curry their favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Universal Health Care would just increase HC costs in this country. It is estimated that 50% of all costs are from the misuse/overuse of medical treatment. This would only increase if people realize that Uncle Sam is picking up the tab. The REAL solution is the creation of an independent clinic to evaluate new treatments (which is what Europe has, but the US doesn't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 The existing government health care plan has already cost me $8000 directly out-of-pocket, when I had to pay to have my niece's badly broken hand surgically repaired after Medicaid refused her care (despite her being eligible and already enrolled). So, as government-sponsored health care has already cost me a ton of money, I'll pass thank you very much. People need to understand that the most noble of intentions do not translate to a good idea when the government's involved. I am sorry to hear that about your niece and you should have probably contacted your local Congresscritter's office. It is amazing what their young staff can do in these kind of cases. That being said, MA requires everyone to buy health insurance and those that can't afford do so at a reduced rate. We require all farmers who receive government funds to buy crop insurance. It is subsidized on both ends and heavily regulated, because of which it doesn't cost the tax payers huge amounts. However, it was hoped that it would help eliminate disaster payments, but those Rich Republican farmers keep coming to the government with their hands out for one issue or another. Speaking of welfare dependents. Use to be a joke on the Hill both for farmers and natural disasters... how do you balance the budget... end disaster bailouts... including this latest one for Wall Street. But for all these so called free marketeers it is amazing how Keynesian they become when their as*&^ (rear end) is on the line. Show me a free marketeer and I will show you the biggest beneficiaries of government largess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 South Carolina recently passed a law stopping free health care for illegal immigrants. State funded hospitals and clinics will now only see illegal aliens for life threating injuries. That is good, violates a Doctors Hippocratic oath, what are you going to do arrest the Doctors??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Take time out from your endless, mindless, witless bashing to comprehend that I was criticizing Obama and elements of his plan there. I wasn't criticizing you at all, but was agreeing with you. If you took that the wrong way then I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 That is good, violates a Doctors Hippocratic oath, what are you going to do arrest the Doctors??? It doesn't stop a doctor from helping a patient, it stops the public funding of such measures. Invasions from other countries are a clear and present danger and no gov't should be forced to fund their own destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 In true double post fashion and keeping up with tradition the double post: "People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free..." On another note... What is the difference if say Wal-Mart in TN pays depressed wages and then says to the worker: "You can always get gov't aid to bridge the gap." Companies that can afford to pay employees benefits, yet do not. I guess if the individual makes the choice on what is cost effctive... It doesn't float... If a business does, it is quite all right. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I am sorry to hear that about your niece and you should have probably contacted your local Congresscritter's office. It is amazing what their young staff can do in these kind of cases. We did (hers, actually - she's in Florida). Three months of arguing, AND a lawyer, AND the Congresscritter on our side...and still had to shell out, as the bureaucracy refused to budge. That being said, MA requires everyone to buy health insurance and those that can't afford do so at a reduced rate. We require all farmers who receive government funds to buy crop insurance. It is subsidized on both ends and heavily regulated, because of which it doesn't cost the tax payers huge amounts. However, it was hoped that it would help eliminate disaster payments, but those Rich Republican farmers keep coming to the government with their hands out for one issue or another. Speaking of welfare dependents. Use to be a joke on the Hill both for farmers and natural disasters... how do you balance the budget... end disaster bailouts... including this latest one for Wall Street. But for all these so called free marketeers it is amazing how Keynesian they become when their as*&^ (rear end) is on the line. Show me a free marketeer and I will show you the biggest beneficiaries of government largess. And people still keep missing the point that universal health coverage and universal health care are completely different things. Universal coverage does not translate to universal care, because while it increases the demand for health services, it does not address the limited supply of health services. And only in the pollyanna musings of the halls of the American government bureacuracy would increasing demand for a limited resource translate to universal care and lower costs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 That is good, violates a Doctors Hippocratic oath, what are you going to do arrest the Doctors??? No. They are perfectly free to treat people pro bono, they just shouldn't bill the government. In fact, it is not obvious to me why the government should be subsidizing services to patients at all, citizens or not. If the USG wants to provide subsidies, be upfront with it and pass universal health care. Burying reimbursement the way we do now only masks the extent of the problem and encourages abuse and inefficiency. Or is it your position that any professional organization - lawyers, say - should be allowed to create rules for themselves that mandate providing legal services to anybody regardless of their ability to pay, and should be allowed to pass the legal bills on to the government for those that can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Actually he said people making above $250,000 will see a tax increase. Everyone will still pay taxes. Yes. And the increase is only pegged at 3%. The media makes it sound like it's going up 50%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Yes. And the increase is only pegged at 3%. The media makes it sound like it's going up 50%! 7500 additional taxes is a lot. Consider that a small business man could hire additional help during peek seasons, give a few more benefits, etc... with 7500. Instead the small business man will make benefit or personel cuts to ensure it doesn't come out of his pocket. the only one who gets hurt when you raise taxes is the lower and middle class income earners. The business men if they are savy and rich will just cut elsewhere to make up the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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