Blow to the QB's Head on Trent Edwards fumble?

[Billsfanfourlife]

I'm not exactly positive on how this call works but Reggie Hayward jumped in the air towards Trent Edwards 1/2 second later the fumble is forced, while Hayward is still in the air, then Hayward's Helmet goes directly into Trent's Face mask (unabated to the quarter back or something?)....like I said idk how it works if Trent lost possession but if he was in the air before the fumble should it be counted as a blow to the head and the Bills be awarded a 15 yd personal foul penalty and receive that ball back? Just a question that could possibly be answered by a more NFL Rules knowledgeable person.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80acb481 <----Here's a link to the highlights and about 2:30 into the highlight you can see a good view of the play.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Captain Hindsight]

I'm not exactly positive on how this call works but Reggie Hayward jumped in the air towards Trent Edwards 1/2 second later the fumble is forced, while Hayward is still in the air, then Hayward's Helmet goes directly into Trent's Face mask (Unavaided to the quarter back or something?)....like I said idk how it works if Trent lost possession but if he was in the air before the fumble should it be counted as a blow to the head and the Bills be awarded a 15 yd personal foul penalty and receive that ball back? Just a question that could possibly be answered by a more NFL Rules knowledgeable person.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=highlights <----Here's a link to the highlights and about 2:30 into the highlight you can see a good view of the play.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

Gotta be honest i think your reaching a bit on this one

[The Big Cat]

I'm not exactly positive on how this call works but Reggie Hayward jumped in the air towards Trent Edwards 1/2 second later the fumble is forced, while Hayward is still in the air, then Hayward's Helmet goes directly into Trent's Face mask (Unavaided to the quarter back or something?)....like I said idk how it works if Trent lost possession but if he was in the air before the fumble should it be counted as a blow to the head and the Bills be awarded a 15 yd personal foul penalty and receive that ball back? Just a question that could possibly be answered by a more NFL Rules knowledgeable person.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=highlights <----Here's a link to the highlights and about 2:30 into the highlight you can see a good view of the play.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

You know, I noticed that too...there was def helmet to helmet contact on that play. But since it was a fumble and therefor a live ball, there may be some leniency. Otherwise, that's 15 yards no questions asked.

[webtoe]

Gotta be honest i think your reaching a bit on this one

 

I don't know...wasn't there a Roughing the Passer penalty in the Jets/Pats* game that looked very similar?

 

Oh, that's right, the hit was on Cassell so it had to be a penalty...

[ricojes]

I'm not exactly positive on how this call works but Reggie Hayward jumped in the air towards Trent Edwards 1/2 second later the fumble is forced, while Hayward is still in the air, then Hayward's Helmet goes directly into Trent's Face mask (Unavaided to the quarter back or something?)....like I said idk how it works if Trent lost possession but if he was in the air before the fumble should it be counted as a blow to the head and the Bills be awarded a 15 yd personal foul penalty and receive that ball back? Just a question that could possibly be answered by a more NFL Rules knowledgeable person.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=highlights <----Here's a link to the highlights and about 2:30 into the highlight you can see a good view of the play.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

I actually questioned that as well. I thought it should have been Jax ball still, but tack on a 15 yard helmet to helmet personal foul. But as soon as the ball was loose, the refs probably shifted their focus to the ball.

[Bmwolf21]

Gotta be honest i think your reaching a bit on this one

I don't think he is -- I said the same thing when CBS showed the first replay after the fumble. When Trent turns his head to look at the fumble, the other Jag comes in high and hits Trent helmet-to-helmet. I don't know whether that's not called because of the fumble or what.

 

BTW, to the OP- the term is "unabated" and I think that is usually only called when someone jumps offsides and has a clear run at the QB and he's defenseless.

[Billadelphia]

You know, I noticed that too...there was def helmet to helmet contact on that play. But since it was a fumble and therefor a live ball, there may be some leniency. Otherwise, that's 15 yards no questions asked.

 

Agreed. Had he thrown the ball for a completion or incompletion and then taken that hit, its a penalty. In this case, he fumbled and then took the hit. As soon as he fumbles, he's becomes fair game same as the rest of the players on the field.

[Bmwolf21]

I actually questioned that as well. I thought it should have been Jax ball still, but tack on a 15 yard helmet to helmet personal foul. But as soon as the ball was loose, the refs probably shifted their focus to the ball.

The question is, does it count as roughing the passer? Because I think roughing the passer penalties can overturn a interception (I know it has in the past) and if this penalty was treated the same way, the ball would have returned to Buffalo.

 

Again, I don't know the rule and all its intricacies, so I could be wrong.

[ricojes]

The question is, does it count as roughing the passer? Because I think roughing the passer penalties can overturn a interception (I know it has in the past) and if this penalty was treated the same way, the ball would have returned to Buffalo.

 

Again, I don't know the rule and all its intricacies, so I could be wrong.

yeah, I don't know how the rule is worded either. But I don't think there is anyway they give the ball back to Buffalo on that play. He fumbled first, then got hit. There must be a difference in the rule between a fumble and interception. I don't know, but a helmet to helmet hit is a penalty no matter what the position.

[Bmwolf21]

yeah, I don't know how the rule is worded either. But I don't think there is anyway they give the ball back to Buffalo on that play. He fumbled first, then got hit. There must be a difference in the rule between a fumble and interception. I don't know, but a helmet to helmet hit is a penalty no matter what the position.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But at the very least Jax should have gotten hit with a 15-yarder from the spot of the foul, no doubt in my mind.

[Billsfanfourlife]

The question is, does it count as roughing the passer? Because I think roughing the passer penalties can overturn a interception (I know it has in the past) and if this penalty was treated the same way, the ball would have returned to Buffalo.

 

Again, I don't know the rule and all its intricacies, so I could be wrong.

 

That's what I thought because I know that I've been watching a game and the Quarterback gets hit and its roughing the passer and even though the ball was intercepted the ball is awarded back to the offense. And I realize on a fumble that the ball is "fair game," but when the ball is in the air its also up for grabs? Maybe we need Ed Hochuli to respond to this post because he is an expert on all NFL rules, especially when to award fumbles.

[NorthWesternBill]

So that link took me to the top 5 radio calls... anyway if you watch that clip, when the bears block the field goal I swear one of the announcers screams the F word quite clearly and loud. Can anybody else confirm or deny?

 

 

 

EDIT: video is the week 2 sounds check, time appx 35 seconds into the video. Could be saying blocked I guess but man does it sound like four letters not seven.

[Lurker]

I don't think he is -- I said the same thing when CBS showed the first replay after the fumble. When Trent turns his head to look at the fumble, the other Jag comes in high and hits Trent helmet-to-helmet. I don't know whether that's not called because of the fumble or what.

I'd view it like a non-call on pass interference when the ball is tipped. The ball was out first, then the contact, so no penalty.

[ricojes]

I'd view it like a non-call on pass interference when the ball is tipped. The ball was out first, then the contact, so no penalty.

That's basically what it comes down to, if it's a clean hit. But the fact that it was helmet to helmet, makes it a penalty. I have no problem with contact, but I thought the league was supposed to be tough on helmet to helmet hits. Although there was a no call in TB, did anyone see Matt Ryan get lit up? Helmet to helmet and no penalty as well...

[Got_Wood]

I'm sorry, but that was just a FOOTBALL hit. There was no intention to hurt Trent there. Move on.

[Beerball]

Wonder if the Bills will submit the play to the NFL offices?

[JAMIEBUF12]

I'm not exactly positive on how this call works but Reggie Hayward jumped in the air towards Trent Edwards 1/2 second later the fumble is forced, while Hayward is still in the air, then Hayward's Helmet goes directly into Trent's Face mask (unabated to the quarter back or something?)....like I said idk how it works if Trent lost possession but if he was in the air before the fumble should it be counted as a blow to the head and the Bills be awarded a 15 yd personal foul penalty and receive that ball back? Just a question that could possibly be answered by a more NFL Rules knowledgeable person.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80acb481 <----Here's a link to the highlights and about 2:30 into the highlight you can see a good view of the play.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

apparently you havn't read the nfl rule book....those helmet to helmet personal foul rules only apply when a defensive player is trying to sack tom brady! silly silly silly lol lol....go bills!

[Boatdrinks]

Agreed. Had he thrown the ball for a completion or incompletion and then taken that hit, its a penalty. In this case, he fumbled and then took the hit. As soon as he fumbles, he's becomes fair game same as the rest of the players on the field.

 

You are wrong. He was in the act of throwing and therefore "defenseless". That the ball was batted out of his hands was of no consequence. Officials blew it on this one. There is no gray area on helmet to helmet hits on the QB. No area of leniency. The call should have been personal foul on JAX, helmet to helmet hit or roughing the passer and Bills keep possession. No questions asked. This was clear whether you are Bills or Jags fan. The personal foul would have negated the play. The helmet to helmet clearly occurred before the ball was recovered.

[Captain Hindsight]

I don't think he is -- I said the same thing when CBS showed the first replay after the fumble. When Trent turns his head to look at the fumble, the other Jag comes in high and hits Trent helmet-to-helmet. I don't know whether that's not called because of the fumble or what.

 

BTW, to the OP- the term is "unabated" and I think that is usually only called when someone jumps offsides and has a clear run at the QB and he's defenseless.

I guess what i meant was since the fumble was occuring alot of those rules go out the window

[Orton's Arm]

You are wrong. He was in the act of throwing and therefore "defenseless". That the ball was batted out of his hands was of no consequence. Officials blew it on this one. There is no gray area on helmet to helmet hits on the QB. No area of leniency. The call should have been personal foul on JAX, helmet to helmet hit or roughing the passer and Bills keep possession. No questions asked. This was clear whether you are Bills or Jags fan. The personal foul would have negated the play. The helmet to helmet clearly occurred before the ball was recovered.

Good post.