If I am Ralph I am looking for a way to cave to Peters

[MarkyMannn]

So what? Who, with the obvious exception - you, gives a flying !@#$ what Jason !@#$ing Peters feels happy about?

 

Mickey = Eugene Parker

[PromoTheRobot]

If you are basing anything on the Lions game, you are in far left field.

 

PTR

[jimmy griffin]

Hey, the players mantra is "it 's business man!" they all beat that stupid a$s drum. as such, wilson is a business man. hes got the cash to prove it. the guy knows money. so, let the player turned lawyer/business man fight it out with wilson. guess who will win? the novice or the old battle axe? wilson will win. and e. parker with his law degree from pursue or valpariso aint going to sway wilson one damn ounce. if wilson had a nickle for every two timing hussling, dime a dozen, average agent waiving a law degree around...

 

 

 

 

Getting flamed, as I am sure you anticipated.

 

As long as I have been on this board, I don't think I have ever seen the majority side with a player against the front office in a contract dispute. It is axiomatic that any player looking for more money is a crybaby, greedy, selfish bastard.

 

Guaranteed, if Evans doesn't get a deal signed, around here it will be because he was asking for too much, the team was smart not to give in, the team had no choice because the demand was over the top, he isn't really that good, he had a weak year last year, we need that money for other positions, etc, etc.

[cody]

Hey, the players mantra is "it 's business man!" they all beat that stupid a$s drum. as such, wilson is a business man. hes got the cash to prove it. the guy knows money. so, let the player turned lawyer/business man fight it out with wilson. guess who will win? the novice or the old battle axe? wilson will win. and e. parker with his law degree from pursue or valpariso aint going to sway wilson one damn ounce. if wilson had a nickle for every two timing hussling, dime a dozen, average agent waiving a law degree around...

 

In the article by Bucky, that you posted earlier today, Bucky stated "It was genius work by Eugene Parker" when refering to the Jackson holdout.

 

I do not think Parker is as outmatched as you are implying. Check out the link on Parker I posted earlier in the thread.

 

EDIT: Sorry, the link is not in this thread. It is in some of the other Peters threads. There are only 20 or 30 of them. Shouldn't be to hard to find.

[The Senator]

Mickey = Eugene Parker

Not a day went by, during this prolonged online debate, that thought didn't cross my mind at least once. Dismissed it, though, 'cause people kept saying Parker is smart.

[jimmy griffin]

st. louis is desperate too. no playoffs, poor attendence. jackson is their only good player -- as holt is failing healthwise. pace is not the same he once was. parker knows when to hold a team hostage. he preys on aveage to below average clubs. the prom fatty who wants to get laid -- and puts herself in a bad position to do it....oy vey...

 

 

 

In the article by Bucky, that you posted earlier today, Bucky stated "It was genius work by Eugene Parker" when refering to the Jackson holdout.

 

I do not think Parker is as outmatched as you are implying. Check out the link on Parker I posted earlier in the thread.

 

EDIT: Sorry, the link is not in this thread. It is in some of the other Peters threads. There are only 20 or 30 of them. Shouldn't be to hard to find.

[cody]

he preys on aveage to below average clubs.

 

The Patriots won Super Bowl XXXIX. After that year, Richard Seymour still had 2 years left on his contract. Eugene Parker held Seymour out of camp. The Pats gave Seymour a new deal in less than a week.

[StupidNation]

I can't believe one person can post so much on FO issues and pretend they are giving analysis instead of preaching to us. I hope the bastard stays home until he plays his contract this year and then we can talk about talking after he works and becomes a man instead of playing this B.S position of pouting.

[Pyrite Gal]

The Bills aren't going to show Peters a dime until he shows up and takes a physical. For all they know, he weighs about 450, walks with a limp, and would miss the entire 2008 season just getting himself back into shape.

I think this is a given that if the Bills are going to give him a new contract that inherent in it is that he must pass a physical in order to get a check. This is one of the reasons I think the conspiracy theories that Peters is being non-communicative so he can hide his injury and get a big contract are almost certainly wrong. Even someone who gives the Bills no credit for having any brains can think they are that foolish.

 

A physical is a pro forma part of any deal.

[Pyrite Gal]

They certainly can but that's not the point.

 

Personally I'm still old school enough to believe that you should stand by your word especially since he was a risk to sign. Unfortunately that's not the way the scumbags in the NFL play it.

 

Peter's refusal to negotiate in good faith is the point and the Bills should hang tough until he does.

I agree that the old school philosophy is the right thing to do, but I am not conceited or foolish enough to believe that the world operates based on what I think the right thing to do is.

 

I think the right thing for Peters to do is simply to stick to his word that he gave in an agreement. If he wants a new agreement which gives his commitment to even more time as a Bill in exchange for more money up front that seems fine to me, but in the absence of Ralph wanting to make a new agreement the right thing to do is to stick by his word.

 

I think the right thing for Ralph to do is to emphasize being a good sportsman and make a new agreement with Peters which pays him a substantial chunk of change up front now in exchange for getting his commitment to more time. Ralph has every "right" under the contract to force Peters to simply observe it terms (this would likely be a smart business move), however, if Ralph was more interested in the sport than the business he would forge and agreement with Peters NOW which gives him a chunk of change up front in exchange for joining him in the risk to commit to the Bills for a longer time.

 

This is a case where it seems to me that neither is Peters doing the right thing in terms of living up to his contract nor is Ralph doing the right thing as a sportsman in doing a new deal NOW with Peters.

[AJ1]

I agree that the old school philosophy is the right thing to do, but I am not conceited or foolish enough to believe that the world operates based on what I think the right thing to do is.

 

I think the right thing for Peters to do is simply to stick to his word that he gave in an agreement. If he wants a new agreement which gives his commitment to even more time as a Bill in exchange for more money up front that seems fine to me, but in the absence of Ralph wanting to make a new agreement the right thing to do is to stick by his word.

 

I think the right thing for Ralph to do is to emphasize being a good sportsman and make a new agreement with Peters which pays him a substantial chunk of change up front now in exchange for getting his commitment to more time. Ralph has every "right" under the contract to force Peters to simply observe it terms (this would likely be a smart business move), however, if Ralph was more interested in the sport than the business he would forge and agreement with Peters NOW which gives him a chunk of change up front in exchange for joining him in the risk to commit to the Bills for a longer time.

 

This is a case where it seems to me that neither is Peters doing the right thing in terms of living up to his contract nor is Ralph doing the right thing as a sportsman in doing a new deal NOW with Peters.

 

Ralph will not reward bad conduct. You don't have to dig any deeper than that. Parker must really be stupid to not know that.

[Pyrite Gal]

Ralph will not reward bad conduct. You don't have to dig any deeper than that. Parker must really be stupid to not know that.

I agree that Ralph emphasizes being a good businessman so he will not show Peters the money. I wish he had more emphasis on being a better sportsman and would be willing to push the salary cap more to produce a better sports product. However, its his money and his team so if he chooses to emphasize the business aspect then so be it.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I agree that Ralph emphasizes being a good businessman so he will not show Peters the money. I wish he had more emphasis on being a better sportsman and would be willing to push the salary cap more to produce a better sports product. However, its his money and his team so if he chooses to emphasize the business aspect then so be it.

As fans, we don't give a crap about how much profit Ralph rakes in every year, yet most of us are proud of the way the Bills are handling this. Are we all just stupid, and you're the only one who sees the truth? Or maybe, just maybe, "the business side" and "the sports side" are somehow related?

 

Hmmmmm...

[Pyrite Gal]

As fans, we don't give a crap about how much profit Ralph rakes in every year, yet most of us are proud of the way the Bills are handling this. Are we all just stupid, and you're the only one who sees the truth? Or maybe, just maybe, "the business side" and "the sports side" are somehow related?

 

Hmmmmm...

As I have said tons of times due to my repeatpeatative nature that the NFL used to be a sport which also happened to be a business and now it is a business which happens to be a sport.

 

The sport side and the business side have always been intertwined, but from a time period roughly described by the the NFLPA fighting its way into being a partner with the owners through the players threatening to decertify themselves and the owners running kicking and screaming away from operating in a free market (where they would have signed individual and unrestricted by the CBA contracts with players but instead they cut a partnership deal which affirmed the draft and other agreements in restricting the market) this game has become primarily about being a business rather than primarily about being a sport.

 

Ralph has generally been about this being a business and much to the dismay of Bills fans he tended to throw nickels around like their were manhole covers until he really opened the vault for Bruce Smith. We had a team with an unlikely to be equaled feat of making 4 SBs in a row.

 

However, Ralph was not able to avoid his worst tendencies and canned Polian, made an illegal handshake deal with Jimbo that proved to be bad football anyway and has used his owners right to muddle in decisions like Flutie/RJ and mishandled the hiring of TD because we were between a rock and a hard place because he muddled the Butler relationship.

 

The business and sport are totally interrelated but Ralph has chosen an emphasis on good business practices rather than a priority om good sports practices which is his right to do but we loving Bills fans have had to suffer through years of not making the playoffs because of the mismanagement which begins at the top.

[Steely Dan]

By "most of his teammates" do you mean the 2 unidentified players cited it the ESPN article?

 

I'd be surprised if a lot of his teammates weren't pissed at him. Everybody has contract demands but the way he's handling this is absurd. All of the other guys spent the offseason working their butts off to have a winning team this year. If he comes in out of shape and plays poorly for the first few games I'm sure he won't be making a lot of friends. I don't think anyone is going to shun him but I believe that behind the eyes they are steamed at him.

 

 

As I have said tons of times due to my repeatpeatative nature that the NFL used to be a sport which also happened to be a business and now it is a business which happens to be a sport.

 

The sport side and the business side have always been intertwined, but from a time period roughly described by the the NFLPA fighting its way into being a partner with the owners through the players threatening to decertify themselves and the owners running kicking and screaming away from operating in a free market (where they would have signed individual and unrestricted by the CBA contracts with players but instead they cut a partnership deal which affirmed the draft and other agreements in restricting the market) this game has become primarily about being a business rather than primarily about being a sport.

 

Ralph has generally been about this being a business and much to the dismay of Bills fans he tended to throw nickels around like their were manhole covers until he really opened the vault for Bruce Smith. We had a team with an unlikely to be equaled feat of making 4 SBs in a row.

 

However, Ralph was not able to avoid his worst tendencies and canned Polian, made an illegal handshake deal with Jimbo that proved to be bad football anyway and has used his owners right to muddle in decisions like Flutie/RJ and mishandled the hiring of TD because we were between a rock and a hard place because he muddled the Butler relationship.

 

The business and sport are totally interrelated but Ralph has chosen an emphasis on good business practices rather than a priority om good sports practices which is his right to do but we loving Bills fans have had to suffer through years of not making the playoffs because of the mismanagement which begins at the top.

 

Firing Polian was necessary because Polian had severe anger problems. He embarrassed Wilson at a private get together. He is a great talent evaluator who has finally gotten his anger under control. I don't believe he inserted himself into the Flutie RJ debate.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

As I have said tons of times due to my repeatpeatative nature that the NFL used to be a sport which also happened to be a business and now it is a business which happens to be a sport.

 

The sport side and the business side have always been intertwined, but from a time period roughly described by the the NFLPA fighting its way into being a partner with the owners through the players threatening to decertify themselves and the owners running kicking and screaming away from operating in a free market (where they would have signed individual and unrestricted by the CBA contracts with players but instead they cut a partnership deal which affirmed the draft and other agreements in restricting the market) this game has become primarily about being a business rather than primarily about being a sport.

 

Ralph has generally been about this being a business and much to the dismay of Bills fans he tended to throw nickels around like their were manhole covers until he really opened the vault for Bruce Smith. We had a team with an unlikely to be equaled feat of making 4 SBs in a row.

 

However, Ralph was not able to avoid his worst tendencies and canned Polian, made an illegal handshake deal with Jimbo that proved to be bad football anyway and has used his owners right to muddle in decisions like Flutie/RJ and mishandled the hiring of TD because we were between a rock and a hard place because he muddled the Butler relationship.

 

The business and sport are totally interrelated but Ralph has chosen an emphasis on good business practices rather than a priority om good sports practices which is his right to do but we loving Bills fans have had to suffer through years of not making the playoffs because of the mismanagement which begins at the top.

Good post. There isn't much to disagree with there.

 

My disagreement is on your main point in this thread: that standing firm in the Peters situation is somehow "good business," but not "good sport." There are a couple thousand rabid Bills fans on this board that will tell you they wouldn't give up a bag of manure for Ralph to do good business, and therefore care ONLY about the product they see on that football field, yet are proud of the way the Bills have handled this thing. Are they all ill-informed?

[jarthur31]

The blocking performance tonight was a plucky effort with a few successful plays to point to.

 

However, the performance tonight shows how like most NFL teams we are in very extremely bad shape if we have to depend on the OL back-ups to be starters.

 

The injury last week to fill-in back-up at LT Walker merely demonstrated that even if one choose to judge his play adequate at LT (a judgment with some validity based on the OL showing some strength on run plays at points in the first three games) one needs to overlook that not only is Walker playing out of his best position, but that his back-up Chambers is not starter material.

 

Add into that the problem that not only has our starting QB been knocked out of the OL but his back-up JP was also forced out of the line-up by injury. Now tonight Hamdan actually looked pretty good, but it was clear the Lions had identified the blitz as the preferred D against a 3rd string QB blocked for by 2nd and 3rd string OL players. Not only did the pressure game produce two safeties in less than a half of play, but our disaster QB saw his blocking wither under the rush and we confronted a double disaster leading to the Bills who could have made this game at least competitive had to essentially not play football at the end of the game. Our main goal was clearly to allow JP to escape with his life.

 

The sad thing is that I think Ralph will once again prove to be a businessman rather than a sportsman do the curmudgeonly thing and refuse to show Peters the money.

 

One certainly needs to run this sport like a business (though avoiding signing Peter is still strangely judges to be a precedent when quite frankly few if any Bills (unfortunately) are going to be able to make a case that their case is similar to that of a Pro Bowler who started at a UDFA base salary. Unless this future FA is seen as a top quality player at his position AND his position is as difficult as LT to fill AND his base salary even with the extension is so small as not to even remotely to be an accurate statement of the players worth IF there were a free market, there simply is no precedent set by giving Peters a big raise in exchange for agreeing to be a Bills for life (and passing a physical before the contract is good.

 

What used to be a sport that also happened to be a business is now a business that also happens to be a sport.

 

This is one vote for Ralph choosing to be a sportsman rather than a businessman as his first priority. He cannot ignore the fiscal impacts on the team, but we have sufficient cap room that he can sign Peters to a rich deal and though the team's profit will be effected, it seems pretty clear we can both show Peters the money and still maintain a reasonable fiscal stance for the team.

 

Sorry but you have it ass backwards.

 

Peters ought to come back on hands and knees and beg for forgiveness cuz it looks like he's gonna forfeit 3 years of his pro football career.

[Pyrite Gal]

Firing Polian was necessary because Polian had severe anger problems. He embarrassed Wilson at a private get together. He is a great talent evaluator who has finally gotten his anger under control. I don't believe he inserted himself into the Flutie RJ debate.

 

Ralph publicly inserted himself in the RJ/Flutie debacle by expressing awe at the way RJ QB'ed the team to dismantling Indy (which in my mind was caused by Indy needing to not only win that game by a significant margin back in the day when "strength" of wins was a determinant in playoff seeding but have other games turn out produce a quite possible but particular result. Early in the Bills/Indy game it was fairly clear to anyone watching the scoreboard that this was not gonna happen and even worse for Indy Bennett suffered a season ending injury early in the Bills game which made them look like the Bills did late in the pre-season game against the Lions meaning that they were not gonna take any chances while RJ was playing for a job.

 

After Ralph's public endorsement, Wade decided to bench Flutie in the last playoff game seen by this team since last century and RJ was unable to QB the team to victory after the homerun throw-up. Ralph definitely inserted himself into the debate and likely the decision making since he wrote the paychecks for everyone.

[Pyrite Gal]

Good post. There isn't much to disagree with there.

 

My disagreement is on your main point in this thread: that standing firm in the Peters situation is somehow "good business," but not "good sport." There are a couple thousand rabid Bills fans on this board that will tell you they wouldn't give up a bag of manure for Ralph to do good business, and therefore care ONLY about the product they see on that football field, yet are proud of the way the Bills have handled this thing. Are they all ill-informed?

I know there is a tendency in the virtual world to try to falsely reduce reality to either/or decisions but this is not how the real world works. IMHO Ralph is both a good sport AND a good businessman, but in terms of emphasis he chooses to follow good business practices (let Peters rot unless he caves) rather than emphasizing being the best sportsman he can be (show Peters the money to the extent that he does not create an immediate salary cap violation and keeps in mind some but not all of the future salary cap implications of extending Peters.

 

I think Ralph nor Peters has struck a proper balance on this one and we fans are taking it in the teeth as both these parties have chosen to be juveniles rather than adults on this issue.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I think Ralph nor Peters has struck a proper balance on this one and we fans are taking it in the teeth as both these parties have chosen to be juveniles rather than adults on this issue.

I do. Agree to disagree, I guess.