JK2000 Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jws4AA6...3tZ-GAD92JH6580 Does it bother anyone else how politicians need to be able to express their faith in order to be elected? Wouldn't it be great if McCain or Obama got up there and said, "Look Rick, I only go to church every week because my wife makes me but I'd really rather be home watching NFL Countdown. I don't need to be lectured every sunday on how I'm going to hell." They'd have my vote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 That the candidates both feel the need to give JC a public BJ is horrific. We've had non-Christians, non-practicing, and probably borderline atheists as presidents before. Some were our best presidents. Hard to believe we've slipped into these dark ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I like this forum idea...but I don't like the pandering. As a person of devout faith, I think it's important to know the faith of someone who I would vote for. It is not the be-all and end-all, but it is one element. Worship is, by and large, a private matter, but I do feel the responsibility to share my faith. Through my actions, much more so, than my words. It would be great if the candidates could be more honest (like the "NFL Countdown" reference), but we're not going to get that out of any political candidate...and I honestly believe McCain is the one who would come the closest to saying that. The founding fathers were deists, by and large (comparable to modern-day Unitarians), and many of those who were evangelical of the day (circa 1776) were actually against the formation of the United States, stating that it was not our place to separate from England, go our own way, and become our own nation. The evangelical churches of that day were far more concerned with the salvation of mankind than of forming a "Christian nation". Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, but it wasn't founded by Christians. There's a difference. Look at the Constitution and the Declaration of Indepence, which recognize a "Creator" but don't mention God by name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I like this forum idea...but I don't like the pandering. As a person of devout faith, I think it's important to know the faith of someone who I would vote for. It is not the be-all and end-all, but it is one element. Worship is, by and large, a private matter, but I do feel the responsibility to share my faith. ... Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, but it wasn't founded by Christians. There's a difference. Look at the Constitution and the Declaration of Indepence, which recognize a "Creator" but don't mention God by name. I've seen you post here before and expected the exact opposite response to this thread from you. That's a logically well-stated position. Not one I'm in 100% agreement with but it's sensible and I wish other Christians mimicked you instead of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 One of Alan Alda's best roles.... I wish we had a candidate like this. Link. Shorter clip w/ most pertinent lines, but by all means, watch the longer version for teevee at it best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 That the candidates both feel the need to give JC a public BJ is horrific. We've had non-Christians, non-practicing, and probably borderline atheists as presidents before. Some were our best presidents. Hard to believe we've slipped into these dark ages. What's scary is that for a lot of believers (whatever their faith may be), there is no way someone not sharing their faith may have the good values and/or qualities to be a good President... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornerville Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Don't know why some are so scared by religion. The candidates chose to participate, they weren't forced to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Don't know why some are so scared by religion. The candidates chose to participate, they weren't forced to. Religion was at the root of 9/11. Pardon me if I'm less than thrilled by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I have to give credit to Obama for participating, it was like walking into the lion's den as a liberal and he also prob p!ssed off a bunch of liberal supporters (who will vote for him anyways) but in the end I don't think he prob helped himself much, if anything McCain prob strengthened his "base". In the end, although he can show his faith, Obama is a liberal that stands for issues that tick off evangelists. Then again, maybe folks turned the TV off after Obama and went to bed.... Biggest Gaffs: Obama - after being asked why he wants to be president...10 seconds of "uh...uh...uh" McCain - When talking about Russia, he kept screwing up the countries, making him look old and forgetful Obama - Saying Clarence Thomas didn't have the qualifications to be a Supreme Court Justice...uh...folks say the same about you... McCain - Pandering faith...he was a little too over the top and you could tell he was trying to push faith, where Obama was much more natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornerville Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Religion was at the root of 9/11. Pardon me if I'm less than thrilled by it. Radical religion was yes, but no need to paint 'religion' with a broad brush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I think Obama crushed McCain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK2000 Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 I think Obama crushed McCain. Considering the circumstances I think Obama did as well as he could have but McCain was the winner saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Don't know why some are so scared by religion. The candidates chose to participate, they weren't forced to. I'm scared by people who feel need to parade their religion publicly. I'm also scared by an electorate that wants to know its public officials religious views, and have those views paraded publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I'm scared by people who feel need to parade their religion publicly. I'm also scared by an electorate that wants to know its public officials religious views, and have those views paraded publicly. If you're so scared, move to another country that prohibits religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 If you're so scared, move to another country that prohibits religion. Way to miss the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Religion was at the root of 9/11. Pardon me if I'm less than thrilled by it. Politics was at the root of 9/11. Politics and all it touches for people in the the M.E. Religion was just a tool to recruit those to carry out a political agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK2000 Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 I'm scared by people who feel need to parade their religion publicly. I'm also scared by an electorate that wants to know its public officials religious views, and have those views paraded publicly. You know what's weird is that on Wikipedia politicians have their religion listed in their little data box thing like football players have for their college and draft history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Considering the circumstances I think Obama did as well as he could have but McCain was the winner saturday. what do you mean by "considering the circumstances"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK2000 Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 what do you mean by "considering the circumstances"? He was defending his positions on abortion, gay marriage, and stem cells to an audience of Evangelicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Awfully tough thing to do. I think he faired well. However, McCain was equally as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK2000 Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 Awfully tough thing to do. I think he faired well. However, McCain was equally as good. McCain accomplished what I think he needed to do by emphasizing what kind of judges he'd appoint. I think he poured it on a little thick though to the point that he came of as disingenuous, such as answering the question "Which ONE SC Justice would you not have nominated" by listing the FIVE who support Roe v Wade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Worst thing that McCain could do now is rehash his stance against Roe v Wade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Awfully tough thing to do. I think he faired well. However, McCain was equally as good. Most people I've talked to agree that McCain outperformed Obama. In fact, one Obama supporter I know even went so far as to state his belief that McCain outperformed Obama so well that the Evangelicals must have slipped McCain the questions ahead of time so he could prepare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Most people I've talked to agree that McCain outperformed Obama. In fact, one Obama supporter I know even went so far as to state his belief that McCain outperformed Obama so well that the Evangelicals must have slipped McCain the questions ahead of time so he could prepare Yeah, McCain did a very good job. He seemed to answered honestly. Although, not because I support Obama but I believe he full of serious BS when he brought up his first marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 He was defending his positions on abortion, gay marriage, and stem cells to an audience of Evangelicals. Problem for Obama with that kind of audience is: Do i try to win a couple of votes from those guys, with about 90% of them voting for Mc Cain anyway, with the risk of losing thousands of votes from my left ?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK2000 Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 Problem for Obama with that kind of audience is: Do i try to win a couple of votes from those guys, with about 90% of them voting for Mc Cain anyway, with the risk of losing thousands of votes from my left ?... I think Obama's only goal was to go out there and say that he believes in Jesus and Jesus died for his sins to head off some of this Muslim speculation while tiptoeing around the social issues like abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Problem for Obama with that kind of audience is: Do i try to win a couple of votes from those guys, with about 90% of them voting for Mc Cain anyway, with the risk of losing thousands of votes from my left ?... I saw a poll over the weekend that showed about 70% of evangelicals supporting McCain, and about 25% Obama, which are around the numbers from the Bush-Kerry election. So if Obama could attract a few percentage more by showing he's not different from them in religious belief and family values, but just some specific issues, it could make the difference in some of the swing states. He's not going to lose many voters on the left, they've seen what can happen by supporting a 3rd party candidate like Nader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I think Obama's only goal was to go out there and say that he believes in Jesus and Jesus died for his sins to head off some of this Muslim speculation while tiptoeing around the social issues like abortion. 100% agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I really liked the format. Same interviewer, same chair, same audience, same questions. As much as we got to see what their answers were, we got to see their contrasting styles. I'd like to see the format again, with a different target group, maybe labor unions, or seniors, or Bills fans (...so as president, would you allow foriegn countries to buy and move an NFL football team?). Anyhoo, good job by both candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I thought that Obama came across as calm and took a few seconds to think about the question before giving a thoughtful answer, while McCain was impulsive and tried to find opportunities to insert his stump speech lines without really reflecting on what the question was. In the eye of the beholder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I thought that Obama came across as calm and took a few seconds to think about the question before giving a thoughtful answer, while McCain was impulsive and tried to find opportunities to insert his stump speech lines without really reflecting on what the question was. In the eye of the beholder... So er,uh,er,uh,er is being thoughtful? I though it wsa having no idea what the question was about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I thought that Obama came across as calm and took a few seconds to think about the question before giving a thoughtful answer, while McCain was impulsive and tried to find opportunities to insert his stump speech lines without really reflecting on what the question was. In the eye of the beholder... Meaning, you see what you want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 I thought that Obama came across as calm and took a few seconds to think about the question before giving a thoughtful answer, while McCain was impulsive and tried to find opportunities to insert his stump speech lines without really reflecting on what the question was. In the eye of the beholder... I agree. And I'm mostly conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Obama accusing McCain of cheating http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/us/polit...back&st=cse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Obama accusing McCain of cheating http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/us/polit...back&st=cse Ahh..and here is a rebuttle article http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics...saddleback.html McCain is a seasoned politician of 25 years, he doesn't need a minute to think on every question, and has been doing town hall meetings where he's been asked almost every question before. I think this is Obama admitting that McCain outperformed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Ahh..and here is a rebuttle article http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics...saddleback.html McCain is a seasoned politician of 25 years, he doesn't need a minute to think on every question, and has been doing town hall meetings where he's been asked almost every question before. I think this is Obama admitting that McCain outperformed him. That's what I think. Why does Obama keep having to play the victim? I thought he did fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Did Obama say this or "Obama supporters"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 McCain's strength is the town hall-style debate, which is one of the reasons why the media has loved him so much over the years. It would be no shock that he did well in this format. However, in a 1-on-1 debate where they can respond to each other, it will be no shock when he loses those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 McCain's strength is the town hall-style debate, which is one of the reasons why the media has loved him so much over the years. It would be no shock that he did well in this format. However, in a 1-on-1 debate where they can respond to each other, it will be no shock when he loses those. I wouldn't count your eggs, Obama didn't look so hot going up against Clinton this spring, most agreed that he lost those debates. Obama is an amazing speaker, not debater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts