Fewell733 Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 a key part of the equation, according to Begnini, is the fact of moving a team over the border. He indicated that the home market thing was fine, but the border crossing kicks up the fee according to the league bylaws. Also the Canadian and Provincial governments don't fork over the dough for stadiums like their State equivalents do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Except sources in the league say it would be around $600 to $900 million Hey, I hope that is the case. Anything that makes it more difficult for the team to move is good with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Ouch.... 1 month payment= average NFL team profit. If the Bills are moved; someone will have to pay with $2 billion in cash. That is why whoever gave those #s is dead wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I do not think this is correct. I am pretty sure that when this whole Toronto business came about that it was reported there would be no relocation fee since Toronto was considered part of the Bills home market. Even though the team would be changing cities, they are not really changing "markets", so it would not be considered a relocation. Again, I do not have firm facts on this, just something I kind of remember from several months ago. Anybody else recall this??? The home market is within a 75 mile radius of the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 This is very interesting indeed. In this slumping economy I doubt anyone would jump at dropping $3B on a sports team. What this does do is make a shared Toronto/Buffalo scenario more likely. Keep the Bills in Buffalo but play up to 3 games (1 pre, 2 reg) in TO, especially if the NFL adds more regular season games (which is rumored to be on the table...either cut two pre-season games or add a 17th neutral site game) I know purists will howl but I can live sharing the Bills with Toronto if it means we are viable and the team (mostly) stays in Buffalo. PTR Some members of the Canadian Parliament are deadset against Buffalo relocating. Wiki has something on the 1974 Canadian act. Here's more: But not everyone is excited about the NFL coming to town. Senator Larry Campbell is drafting a bill to protect the CFL, stating the arrival of a full-time NFL team in Toronto would spell the end of the Canadian league. And a group of diehard CFL fans will reportedly launch a protest outside Rogers Centre prior to Thursday's contest. Can't remember where I read it so it could be total BS, but I heard that Toronto was not necessarily considered part of Buffalo's market....before these 8 games were granted to them. Now, they are. The home market is within a 75 mile radius of the stadium. I think that's just the TV Blackout rule. I don't think an NFL team could be put in Syracuse without Wilson's approval. I seem to recall that a long time ago even before this stuff I heard that the NFL couldn't put a team in Toronto without Wilson's approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I think that's just the TV Blackout rule. I don't think an NFL team could be put in Syracuse without Wilson's approval. I seem to recall that a long time ago even before this stuff I heard that the NFL couldn't put a team in Toronto without Wilson's approval. Well Oakland and San Francisco are within 15 miles of each other. I don't know what the answer is, but I can't believe that a city 113 miles away from RWS would be considered "home." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Well Oakland and San Francisco are within 15 miles of each other. I don't know what the answer is, but I can't believe that a city 113 miles away from RWS would be considered "home." True, but those teams were once in two different leagues. NFL probably wouldn't have allowed an expansion team in Oakland. For the record, Ralph absolutely considers Toronto part of his market. From Relentless: Aug. 10, 1995 -- The Bills traveled to Toronto for their American Bowl game against the Cowboys, and Ralph Wilson denied that the game was a test run for a possible move of his team to Toronto. He also said that if the NFL - which has coveted Toronto as an expansion market - put a team there, he would demand compensation, possibly in the form of No. 1 draft picks. "Toronto is in the Bills' territory," Wilson said. "If the NFL expands here, we'd expect to be compensated. We've got a lot of fans in Toronto and southern Ontario." By the by, the Bills played that game in front of a sellout crowd announced at 55,799. Guessing they didn't pay $300 - 500 per ticket, though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 True, but those teams were once in two different leagues. NFL probably wouldn't have allowed an expansion team in Oakland. For the record, Ralph absolutely considers Toronto part of his market. From Relentless: By the by, the Bills played that game in front of a sellout crowd announced at 55,799. Guessing they didn't pay $300 - 500 per ticket, though ... Exactly right about the SF Oakland thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Some members of the Canadian Parliament are deadset against.....I don't think an NFL team could be put in Syracuse without Wilson's approval. I seem to recall that a long time ago even before this stuff I heard that the NFL couldn't put a team in Toronto without Wilson's approval. Don't know the exact rule either but, IMHO, Ralph has just pissed all over Toronto and - by marking his territory - firmly established TO as part of his market. Also just saw on the 11 PM newscast that Rogers lost over $5M on last nite's game. Apparently, 'ticket brokers' were selling $190 seats for as little as 10 bucks, and Rogers was handing out free tix to all its employees. My own personal speculation (and it's nothing more than that) is that, in addition to exploiting a very good market that is logically and geographically already his, Ralph also wants to keep an expansion team out of TO and/or keep any other NFL team from moving there unless they pay RW a tidy sum. (Something like when the Miami Seahawks became the Baltimore Colts and had to pay the Redskins to allow the relocation.) Senile old Ralph, crazy like a fox. In any case, I have never had any fear at all that the Bills will move North; I was much more concerned that they'd move to LA. Now, with the involvement of Schumer, Goodell, Kelly, Kemp, Cuomo (Mario, that is - and his/Kemp's hedge fund looking to spend about a $billion$ on a pro sports franchise), I really don't see the Bills ever leaving The BuffTown. 19 and 0 baby!!! GO BILLSSS!!!! Posluszny!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 The one thing which I think is almost definite rule is that the NFL will support the option which makes the league the most money. I think IF this is the logic that drives the process that when given a choice of Toronto and Buffalo for a franchise the obvious choice for the NFL will be to choose BOTH. If a mickey mouse league like the NHL can make this work my guess is that the NFL can make it work also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 The one thing which I think is almost definite rule is that the NFL will support the option which makes the league the most money. I think IF this is the logic that drives the process that when given a choice of Toronto and Buffalo for a franchise the obvious choice for the NFL will be to choose BOTH. If a mickey mouse league like the NHL can make this work my guess is that the NFL can make it work also. Little easier to sell out two 20,000-seat hockey arenas than two 60-70,000-seat stadiums, though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 It was a pre-season game. Let's see what a regular season game will bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 The one thing which I think is almost definite rule is that the NFL will support the option which makes the league the most money. That would be, I'm almost certain, an expansion team - the 32 owners split the 'entrance fee', vs. an existing owner pocketing all the change from a 'relocation'. I think IF this is the logic that drives the process that when given a choice of Toronto and Buffalo for a franchise the obvious choice for the NFL will be to choose BOTH. Again, I think Ralph has 'spread his scent' all over Toronto, and will demand hefty (i.e., prohibitive) compensation for either expansion or relocation of an existing team to Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 you guys forget oe thing... while it will cost the bills 600 mil to relocate... theya re currently a CASH COW. the Bills, who havent made the playoffs in almost 10 years, have sold 54000 season tickets. whoever buys the bills, with have a hard finacial time moving the tema when a very mediocre team can yeaild millions in profits. If the bills where to put a plaoff team on the field, they could potential sell out season tickets in the ralph (3rd largest in the legue). No buiseness man is moving that team... especially to a city (LA) who has already lost 3 NFL teams (not to metion the owners are too smart to let LA have a forth team) of to Toronto, who has already proven noone in canada likes NFL football. Bills will reamain in buffalo cause they rock and there is no where else to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 you guys forget oe thing... while it will cost the bills 600 mil to relocate... theya re currently a CASH COW. the Bills, who havent made the playoffs in almost 10 years, have sold 54000 season tickets. whoever buys the bills, with have a hard finacial time moving the tema when a very mediocre team can yeaild millions in profits. If the bills where to put a plaoff team on the field, they could potential sell out season tickets in the ralph (3rd largest in the legue). No buiseness man is moving that team... especially to a city (LA) who has already lost 3 NFL teams (not to metion the owners are too smart to let LA have a forth team) of to Toronto, who has already proven noone in canada likes NFL football. Bills will reamain in buffalo cause they rock and there is no where else to go It's not about season tickets (which are the lowest-priced in the league, by the way). It's about suites and PSLs and other unshared revenue -- the loot that owners like Kraft and Snyder are raking in hand over fist, while leaving small-market owners out in the cold. I hope you're correct about the Bills staying in Buffalo. I really do. But when they go on auction to the highest bidder (as Mr. Wilson suggests will happen after he leaves us), there are no guarantees. If you're the religious type, a few prayers for his continued good health might be appropriate ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 True, but those teams were once in two different leagues. NFL probably wouldn't have allowed an expansion team in Oakland. For the record, Ralph absolutely considers Toronto part of his market. From Relentless: By the by, the Bills played that game in front of a sellout crowd announced at 55,799. Guessing they didn't pay $300 - 500 per ticket, though ... not sure about the pricing for the '95 game but I still have the mailing from the Bills announcing the 97 American Bowl Tickets were...get this $10.50 $22.50 $32.50 I was paying $26 for each game ticket the the Ralph in 96...paying $45 for the same seating now Now obviously, the money being in Canadian funds for those tix (I'm thinking 77 cents on the dollar for some reason) adjusts the cost some but still...it's an eye opener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 True, but those teams were once in two different leagues. NFL probably wouldn't have allowed an expansion team in Oakland. True. And Davis did sue to go back to Oakland. For the record, Ralph absolutely considers Toronto part of his market. From Relentless: For Ralph's territorial reasons, I'm sure he considers it part of his market. But from an official standpoint, I can't believe that a city 2 hours away and in another country can be considered "home" market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I hope everyone realizes if Toronto somehow fails in this, the Bills are not saved from moving elsewhere one day. Just scratch one city of the list. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted August 16, 2008 Author Share Posted August 16, 2008 I hope everyone realizes if Toronto somehow fails in this, the Bills are not saved from moving elsewhere one day. Just scratch one city of the list. PTR LA is really the only other city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 when does that moving fee kick in - 7 games in Buffalo 1 in Toronto nope - 6 games in Buffalo 2 in Toronto nope- how about 4-4 what if they play 1 game in Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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