Mike formerly from Florida Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I don't see how you can say that drafting any postion would be a disaster. Last I checked we don't have multiple pro bowlers at cb, ol, dt, wr, lb, or de. So if they think that the guy most likely to be a pro bowler is a cb (lets suspend disbelief and pretend these things are even semi-predictable), then take cb. If they think its an o-lineman, than take an o-lineman, etc, etc. We're just not a good enough team right now to draft for need. They've gotta take the best player available, no matter what position he plays. Because CB has very little impact and when was the last time we re-signed a starting CB? Odomes, Winfield, Clements...it's a wasted pick. If Keith Rivers is there-grab him. I would take Harvey as well. These two guys would go into the rotation and help us right away. We can grab a very good receiver in the second (or we can move up into the first if necessary) and our te in the third. Then go get your cb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'm sure someone from the Bills' front office immediately called John Clayton to tell him that they want CB McKelvin with their 1st pick It may have been, if it is smokescreen BS! What better guy is there to use as your dupe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 CB in the first would be the dumbest move we could make. I respectfully disagree. While CB is not our biggest need overall, it certainly is a need and if the Bills really like McKelvin and he's there, why wouldn't we get draft him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 That's what concerns me about Harvey. Generally speaking, DEs have a very rough transition into the NFL. Opposing OTs are too good anymore. These days, unless a DE is truly a playmaker, he's probably going to be very ordinary. There's no middle ground and again, its because the OTs around the league are so athletic and talented these days that unless that DE has some outstanding quality (and usually, its speed), he'll be shut down. To me, Harvey doesn't appear to have any standout qualities. He'd probably be an excellent pass-rushing OLB, but as a DE, I think there's a very real chance that he's a deluxe version of Chris Kelsay. so riddle me this how do we get a potential impact pass rusher if #11 in the draft is not high enough and hopefully we won't be picking this high again any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 If CB wasn't a big need when we let Clements walk then it shouldn't be now. And it certainly shouldn't be worth a first round pick. The thing about Clements was that he got a contract that the Bills were not willing to pay which 49ers did. Would they have resigned him if he wanted less money? I'm not sure. The bottom line is if the Bills front office likes him and he's their guy that they want to target and eventually draft, I think this could be a good and potentially very good pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I don't see how you can say that drafting any postion would be a disaster. Last I checked we don't have multiple pro bowlers at cb, ol, dt, wr, lb, or de. So if they think that the guy most likely to be a pro bowler is a cb (lets suspend disbelief and pretend these things are even semi-predictable), then take cb. If they think its an o-lineman, than take an o-lineman, etc, etc. We're just not a good enough team right now to draft for need. They've gotta take the best player available, no matter what position he plays. ?????????????? That makes absolutly no sense. So because the Bills aren't top 10 in every category, they should not draft players that would fill a need? Isn't that what you are supposed to do in the draft? Take players that you feel are the best players for your team, because you need better players at that position? Good teams are the ones that have the luxury to pick whomever they want. Good teams have less needs then bad teams. If they don't draft for need, how are they going to fill those spots? I don't disagree with the rest of what you are saying though. The Bills do have a bunch of needs that they have to address or else they will end up just spinning their wheels. WR and TE are the biggest needs hands down. They are not going to win games this year (no matter how good the defence is) without getting some more playmakers in the offence. Next on the list I would say is CB, and FB, then third would be depth on the d-line, o-line, LB spots. 4th would be depth at DB, and the last thing they should be looking for is RB, QB, and kickers. Using the early rounds on the first and second needs is a must, cause they need something to fill those spots this year, and looking at whats left in FA, you probably won't find anything better there then what you will get in the draft. The only way that you should reach down and get someone who is in the third level of needs early is if that player is a can't miss, future star, who will be able to step in and be an instant upgrade at that spot, and that the players in the need position above them really are not worth being taken in that round (like taking say one of the top 5 DE's (who may have slipped) in the 2nd, over say a FB who might not be worth taking til the late 3rd/early 4th. One of the biggest keys to good drafting is getting the best players that will have the most impact on your team as soon as possible in the early rounds, and get depth guys or hidden gems/projects later on. Is taking a D-linemen or an o-linemen who will be depth on the team until late in the season, or in a couple years be a better choice then a WR who will be able to step in and start, and make an impact from day one on this team? I know it isn't popular around here to say that they shouldn't draft any o-line/d-line players this year, but the current lines are good enough for now, that putting off any picks for them til later in the draft is not as devistating as some want to think. The o-line was upgraded last year with Dockery and Walker, and Butler will be going into his second full year. They were not a negative last season, and at this point, anyone they take would either be depth, or have to be an instant upgrade to justify passing on someone at a need spot. The D-line has been upgraded this offseason already by trading for Stroud and bringing in Johnson. With McCargo developing, and Williams coming along, the DT spot should be much improved, and that should help the DE's out alot. Schobel is a 2 time Pro Bowler (and the last one he was voted on by players and coaches, and not through the "popularity contest" fan voting), and Kelsay and Denney might not be All Pro's, but they are good DE's. Just one year ago, they were one of the better teams when it came to sacks from the DE's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Is this the new fashionable conventional wisdom? That CBs are not important? Remember when it was all you do not need a QB because Trent Dilfer could win the Super Bowl? Then people noticed that most of the time, you need an established QB. Then it was that you don't need to draft a QB in the first round because of Tom Brady (and later Tony Romo)? Then suddenly people noticed how often good QBs would come from the first round (with notable exceptions). There's no magic formula for success in the draft and for emphasizing some positions over others. This little meme will go out of fashion in a few years as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 ?????????????? One of the biggest keys to good drafting is getting the best players that will have the most impact on your team as soon as possible in the early rounds, and get depth guys or hidden gems/projects later on. Is taking a D-linemen or an o-linemen who will be depth on the team until late in the season, or in a couple years be a better choice then a WR who will be able to step in and start, and make an impact from day one on this team? Good idea. Too bad the chances of even a 1st round WR stepping in immediately and being an impact player is pretty remote - especially if the guy is supposed to be the possession guy running the sharp patterms with good timing witht he QB. A pure speedster could produce some by just running fly patterns. However, the Bills alleged need is for someone to do the dirty work opposite Evans - and it is highly unlikely a rookie will perform at this task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Good idea. Too bad the chances of even a 1st round WR stepping in immediately and being an impact player is pretty remote - especially if the guy is supposed to be the possession guy running the sharp patterms with good timing witht he QB. A pure speedster could produce some by just running fly patterns. However, the Bills alleged need is for someone to do the dirty work opposite Evans - and it is highly unlikely a rookie will perform at this task. So you are saying that no WR in this draft can step in and by an upgrade over Reed and Parrish, or over Price? Wouldn't it be best for them to atleast get the best WR they can? They don't need the guy to step in and take over the #1 spot, they need someone who could eventually take over the #1 spot in the future, but will be an upgrade immediatly at the #2 spot and I don't see how any of the top #3 WR's in the draft wouldn't be able to atleast do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 The only problem is he's projected to go 17 at the earliest from all the mocks I have seen, and I don't know why it's ok to reach back 6 picks in the top half of the draft. Does the fact that he plays on the line make that ok? Does that same reasoning apply if we were to take a CB? Harvey is projected to go around 17, but there is a very good chance that Carolina takes him at 13 which is why the Bills taking him at 11 is not such a bad move(if he is the guy they want). They would be reaching a few spots to secure the player they wanted. With McKelvin, I think he is the only top rated CB that the Bills would seem to like. He is the only one who likes contact and is a sure tackler. He has good size and a lot of upside. So if he is there at 11 and they really want a CB, then it makes sense to draft him rather than risk trading back and missing him. I guess it all depends on how much they covet the player. McKelvin definitely fits the profile of the CBs that the Bills like. I think drafting Harvey or McKelvin greatly improves our defense, both next year and in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Harvey is projected to go around 17, but there is a very good chance that Carolina takes him at 13 which is why the Bills taking him at 11 is not such a bad move(if he is the guy they want). They would be reaching a few spots to secure the player they wanted. With McKelvin, I think he is the only top rated CB that the Bills would seem to like. He is the only one who likes contact and is a sure tackler. He has good size and a lot of upside. So if he is there at 11 and they really want a CB, then it makes sense to draft him rather than risk trading back and missing him. I guess it all depends on how much they covet the player. McKelvin definitely fits the profile of the CBs that the Bills like. I think drafting Harvey or McKelvin greatly improves our defense, both next year and in the future. See I am ok with whatever as long as it makes sense, I'm just not ready to condemn a pick just because he is a skill player. IF they take a CB or WR, or DE or OL, then I am happy. If they take a QB, RB, LB then I won't be, because none of those picks make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Agreed 110% ScottLaw. CB would be a disaster. LOL.."disaster" If there was an earthquake and Radio City Music Hall crumbled to the ground, THAT would be a disaster. I'll even give you if the Bills traded away #11 for a 7th rounder, that may be considered a disaster, but taking a CB....not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 so riddle me this how do we get a potential impact pass rusher if #11 in the draft is not high enough and hopefully we won't be picking this high again any time soon. Chris Long and Vernon Gholston are the only 'impact' pass rushers in this draft, IMO and its highly unlikely either will be available at 11. I'd draft a DE in R2-4 with the hope that he'll overachieve and that your scouting department can find a sleeper. I have no problems with taking a DE there, but the thing I wouldn't do is draft a DE at 11 just to make myself feel better. While I believe Harvey will probably go in the top 10, I'm not at all sure that he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Chris Long and Vernon Gholston are the only 'impact' pass rushers in this draft, IMO and its highly unlikely either will be available at 11. I'd draft a DE in R2-4 with the hope that he'll overachieve and that your scouting department can find a sleeper. I have no problems with taking a DE there, but the thing I wouldn't do is draft a DE at 11 just to make myself feel better. While I believe Harvey will probably go in the top 10, I'm not at all sure that he should. Exactly. When did this idea start that you can only get a good pass rusher in the top 10 of the draft? Schobel wasn't an early pick, neither was Jared Allen, Umenyiora, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Is this the new fashionable conventional wisdom? That CBs are not important? Remember when it was all you do not need a QB because Trent Dilfer could win the Super Bowl? Then people noticed that most of the time, you need an established QB. Then it was that you don't need to draft a QB in the first round because of Tom Brady (and later Tony Romo)? Then suddenly people noticed how often good QBs would come from the first round (with notable exceptions). There's no magic formula for success in the draft and for emphasizing some positions over others. This little meme will go out of fashion in a few years as well. Its that way every year. Some team wins the Super Bowl and all the fans say we should emulate that team. Now perhaps that idea has some merit, but people go overboard with it. There is no magic bullet, no secret formula to making the playoffs or winning a Super Bowl. In the end, the only thing that is proven to work is what has been known for decades...you have to at least have a solid team in all three major phases of the game and there are a multitude of ways winning teams have successfully arrived at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'm cool with a CB, but if NFL.com's analysis of McKelvin is accurate, I hope the Bills don't take him. They compare him to RW McQuarters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Its that way every year. Some team wins the Super Bowl and all the fans say we should emulate that team. Now perhaps that idea has some merit, but people go overboard with it. There is no magic bullet, no secret formula to making the playoffs or winning a Super Bowl. In the end, the only thing that is proven to work is what has been known for decades...you have to at least have a solid team in all three major phases of the game and there are a multitude of ways winning teams have successfully arrived at that point. It's not about emulating the Giants for the Bills, it's just a coincidence. It's about emulating what the great Bill Polian did in the late 80s. The braintrust asked themselves what they needed to do to win the division (that's ALWAYS goal #1). At the time Miami was king and Marino was the reason. What to do? GET A PASS RUSH! They got Biscuit and the rest is history. My point is it didn't take the Giants' win in the SB to open everyone's eyes to NE. Couldn't agree more with the rest of your post. Gotta be solid in all 3 phases to give yourself the best chance. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berndogg Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Good post...By any chance, do you ever get mistaken for Shrek??? Who is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I dont know that it is a dumb move to get a corner.....it just isn't what I would do..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Gun10 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I would like this move the best corner in the draft at eleven, possibly gettin Malcolm Kelley in the secons why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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