McShay and Kiper

[Tortured Soul]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/colu...kipermock080401

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/ins...dmcshaymock0401

 

There you have it, folks. Either the Bills take Kelly or he falls out of the first.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/colu...kipermock080401

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/ins...dmcshaymock0401

 

There you have it, folks. Either the Bills take Kelly or he falls out of the first.

 

 

Thats because Kelly is a huge reach at 11 and if we take him there we had better know something no one else does.

[Fewell733]

he's the great unknown in this draft because no one really knows the state of his knees, and he hasn't worked out yet at all. So we don't really know how fast he is, or if he's got chronic knee problems.

[BuffaloBilliever]

Thats because Kelly is a huge reach at 11 and if we take him there we had better know something no one else does.

 

Marshawn Lynch was considered a reach by some people.

 

Looking back on the 06 draft, would Marques Colsten have been a reach in even the second round? A game breaking reciever?

 

I'm so sick of that word reach...

[bills_red]

Marshawn Lynch was considered a reach by some people.

Looking back on the 06 draft, would Marques Colsten have been a reach in even the second round? A game breaking reciever?

 

I'm so sick of that word reach...

 

Only McGay (aka McShay)

 

and Kelly isn't a top 20 player.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

Marshawn Lynch was considered a reach by some people.

 

Looking back on the 06 draft, would Marques Colsten have been a reach in even the second round? A game breaking reciever?

 

I'm so sick of that word reach...

 

I don't think Marshawn was a reach at all. He was projected anywhere from 10-16 IIRC and yes Colsten would have been considered a reach in the 2nd.

 

I don't know about you but I consider a reach to be a player who can be had in a later round or through a trade thus getting a little more for your money. As far as the Colston being drafted in the 2nd doesn't make sense unless NO was so high on him that they just HAD to have him and if that's the rational then they should have drafted him at #2 instead of Bush but that would have been ridiculaus wouldn't it?

Reason: Because it would be a reach to grab someone so high on only YOUR draftboard when that same person can be had later because they don't appear that high on anyone elses.

[Ramius]

The word reach is retarded, because it simply means that the so-called "experts" misjudged what the league thought of a particular player.

 

"Experts" use the word reach because it places blame for being incorrect on the pick and analysis on the football team and not the "expert."

[Fewell733]

Reason: Because it would be a reach to grab someone so high on only YOUR draftboard when that same person can be had later because they don't appear that high on anyone elses.

 

how does a team know that they're not high on other draft boards?

 

If scouts knew Colston would be as good as he is, he would have been picked in the 2nd because teams want good players. I don't think any team would pass up drafting a player they really thought was that good on the assumption that no one else thinks he's that good so he'll be around way later - that would be irresponsible.

 

I think it just shows that the draft is a crapshoot and most teams try to play it as safe as they can.

[Pete]

Interesting Kiper has Sweed, Hardy and Kelly all sliding to the second round. And both have Thomas coming off the board in the first 21 picks. Thomas is the #1 WR in the draft IMO, then Sweed

[San-O]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/colu...kipermock080401

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/ins...dmcshaymock0401

 

There you have it, folks. Either the Bills take Kelly or he falls out of the first.

 

I think if the Bills were smart, they would avoid the situation all together: do not REACH for Kelly,

and try to trade down to pick up additional selections and possibly still get a receiver in the 1st round.

 

This team is not one or two players away from winning a playoff game, they're just not.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

If scouts knew Colston would be as good as he is, he would have been picked in the 2nd because teams want good players[/b]. I don't think any team would pass up drafting a player they really thought was that good on the assumption that no one else thinks he's that good so he'll be around way later - that would be irresponsible.

 

I think it just shows that the draft is a crapshoot and most teams try to play it as safe as they can.

 

 

My point exactly. If SCOUTS new that he would be that good he would have been projected in the first or second but they had no idea he'd be as good as he is there for selecting him in those rounds would've been considered a reach.

 

I'll give you a scenario of "reaches" being a real thing.

 

Let's say the Bills signed B.Johnson,Crumpler and traded for L. Shepard and we took care of most of our needs through trades and FA leaving a glaring hole at FB.

So should we then draft Owen Schmitt with our 1st pick or even 2nd? Or do you think he can be had in the 3rd or 4th? I'm sure that we could get him in a later round therefore taking advantage of our high picks on players who SCOUTS(professionals) think can make an impact as well.

 

In the real world though we are in a position where we can get Kelly or someone who is similar in skillset with a trade down or in the next round or we can grab a guy everyone else seems to have doubts about.

 

The draft is a crapshoot but the Bills pay good money to people whose job it is to get us the most we can for our draft.

[Brandon]

Interesting Kiper has Sweed, Hardy and Kelly all sliding to the second round. And both have Thomas coming off the board in the first 21 picks. Thomas is the #1 WR in the draft IMO, then Sweed

 

Kiper also has Malcolm Kelly listed as his 22nd best player, DeSean Jackson 24th, and Devin Thomas 25th. Seems a little odd that he has Thomas going before those two. Then again, its often been said that you should never pay much attention to Kiper, especially his mock drafts, until the final one comes out.

 

Myself, I think that if Kelly gets a clean bill of health and proves that he can run (and I think he will), he's worthy of that 11th pick as far as I'm concerned.

[Rockinon]

"Reach" is a word that is starting to make me nautious too. I look at it from a little bit different perspective keeping a couple of different things in mind

1. The Bills now have a couple extra draft picks which gives them some added flexibilty to trade up or down with thier non-compensitory picks.
   
2. Just because you have that flexibility doesn't necessarily mean that trading up or down is going to be the right move.(You have to convince another team that the trade is mutually beneficial and sometimes that doesn't work out)
   
3. Get someone that is going to significantly help the team. It doesn't matter if a person is considered to be a "reach" in the over all draft if that person just what "our" team needs.
   
4. Don't get too fancy trying to squeeze the most out of you draft. It could backfire.
   

If we can make a viable trade with another team then I say go for it. If not then I think we need a good wide reciever. If that happens to be at #11 who cares that it is a friggin reach. What matters is what is best for the team. Now I could be wrong about wide reciever. Maybe it's another position. Either way, the bottom line is to find who is going to bring it when the season begins. And I mean bring it!

[Stenbar]

I really like the Idea of the Bills drafting Harvey if he is there..A great Defensive Line makes everyones life so much easier..More turnovers etc..better field position..

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

Thats because Kelly is a huge reach at 11 and if we take him there we had better know something no one else does.

I agree he's a reach. It just make you wonder who we will select at #11 or if we will trade down. Nevertheless, I'm confident that whatever we do or pick on draft day is going to be the right choice. Want proof of that....look at our drafts from the past 2 years. GREAT!

[BuffaloBilliever]

I think if the Bills were smart, they would avoid the situation all together: do not REACH for Kelly,

and try to trade down to pick up additional selections and possibly still get a receiver in the 1st round.

 

This team is not one or two players away from winning a playoff game, they're just not.

 

Have to make the playoffs first.

[obie_wan]

Kiper also has Malcolm Kelly listed as his 22nd best player, DeSean Jackson 24th, and Devin Thomas 25th. Seems a little odd that he has Thomas going before those two. Then again, its often been said that you should never pay much attention to Kiper, especially his mock drafts, until the final one comes out.

 

Myself, I think that if Kelly gets a clean bill of health and proves that he can run (and I think he will), he's worthy of that 11th pick as far as I'm concerned.

 

Kelly will never have a true clean bill of health.

 

He has bad knees.

 

They may heal enough in the short term for him to run fast in shorts - but his long term health is such a risk that does not justify wasting a pick on a player who may have great games but will spend a lot of time in the trainers room with chroninc knee problems.

 

Take a healthy Earl Bennett in the 2nd round.

[Brandon]

Kelly will never have a true clean bill of health.

 

He has bad knees.

 

They may heal enough in the short term for him to run fast in shorts - but his long term health is such a risk that does not justify wasting a pick on a player who may have great games but will spend a lot of time in the trainers room with chroninc knee problems.

 

Take a healthy Earl Bennett in the 2nd round.

 

I'm guessing that you must be Malcolm Kelly's physician. Its good to know that you've examined his knees and are in a position to tell us this.

[Pete]

I'm guessing that you must be Malcolm Kelly's physician. Its good to know that you've examined his knees and are in a position to tell us this.

I have posted many times- I trust the Bills doctors over TBD poster's medical opinion-even if they stayed at a Holiday Inn last night

[Fewell733]

My point exactly. If SCOUTS new that he would be that good he would have been projected in the first or second but they had no idea he'd be as good as he is there for selecting him in those rounds would've been considered a reach.

 

I'll give you a scenario of "reaches" being a real thing.

 

Let's say the Bills signed B.Johnson,Crumpler and traded for L. Shepard and we took care of most of our needs through trades and FA leaving a glaring hole at FB.

So should we then draft Owen Schmitt with our 1st pick or even 2nd? Or do you think he can be had in the 3rd or 4th? I'm sure that we could get him in a later round therefore taking advantage of our high picks on players who SCOUTS(professionals) think can make an impact as well.

 

In the real world though we are in a position where we can get Kelly or someone who is similar in skillset with a trade down or in the next round or we can grab a guy everyone else seems to have doubts about.

 

The draft is a crapshoot but the Bills pay good money to people whose job it is to get us the most we can for our draft.

 

of course the value of a player is partially dictated by the position they play, what kind of athlete they are, the scarcity of that kind of athleticism or skill set.

 

Of course taking a fullback in the 1st 3 rounds would be a huge reach because a FB isn't sought after and veterans are always available. They aren't the elite athletes in terms of speed, agility, ect. that make-up the vast majority of the early rounds.

 

However wide receiver is totally a position that demands elite athleticism and taking a WR in the second who your scouts think is a pro bowler is never a reach. If they thought he was a marginal prospect, then take him where he deserves to be taken.

 

the experts you're citing aren't scouts - they are experts for television and paid to prognosticate as a product - they don't know nearly as much as the real scouts do

 

if the real scouts think that Kelly isn't worth taking at 11 and that we can trade back or take one in the 2nd, then fine. But these guys you're referring to aren't real scouts.