Rb Michael Turner

[Tipster19]

Give them the second 3rd rder and package it with Spikes.

[Acantha]

Maybe im missing something.

 

502 yards, 6.3 avg, 2 TD's, 7 twenty+ yard runs, and 24 first downs ... as a backup. He had over 500 yards, and 24 first downs, as a backup - aka receiving minimal carries.

 

As I said. Maybe im missing something.

This may be over analyzing, but one thought I always have about Turner is that he is also getting those numbers against defenses that have been preparing all week to do nothing but stop the run. Defensive game plans are created to stop Tomlinson, and while a different running style may help him in that respect, I still think it's impressive.

 

Like I said, I don't really have a huge desire to get Turner, but I wouldn't be upset at all if we gave up a second rounder to get him.

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't suppose that would have anything to do with having the best player in the league in front of him?

 

At this point, Michael Turner has proven FAR more than any RB available in the second round.

 

Honestly, I don't care either way.

 

That's right there hits the nail on the head.

 

Some nerdy stats http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/RB...amp;_1:col_1=11

Turner placed 7th in runs over 20+ yards. Difference is he had 80 carries and the next fewest of the guys above him was 240.

 

You don't accomplish that without some talent. I truly believe Turner is everything we wanted Willis to be. He's bigger and more explosive. He played at a cold weather school. Add to the fact, he will only be 25 years old, has taken little abuse, and unlike a rookie coming into the league, has proven himself on a NFL level.

 

If the Chargers do it for a third, run quickly. Personally, I would do it for the 2nd but I believe than could be lowered. Please consider me the President of the Turner the Burner fanclub. The thought of this guy and Thomas as a 1-2 combo running to our leftside has me watering at the mouth. Please Marv.

 

P.S. It's funny that some "experts" told me Henry wasn't explosive yet he ranks in the top 5. Weird.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

You don't average over 4 yards in the NFL without being a good back. I wish we could get him for a 3rd, that would be perfect.

 

Plenty of backup rbs do such as but not limited to and currently excluding turner

 

Kevan Barlow- (split carries with garrison hearst looked like he had very good potential average a real good 5.1ypc in 2003 and went on to average 3.4, 3.3, and 2.8 the following 3 seasons

 

Troy Hambrick- After averaging 4.7, 5.1,4.0 backing up the aging emmitt smith finaly got his chance to prove himself and flunked out hasn't played a down since 2004

 

Lamont Jordan- Receiving limited but more opportunities then everyones current favorite backup Michael turner. Backing up curtis martin Lamont Jordan had the look of a starting back and some production for a team to warrant the chance. Showed potential as a legit receiving threat and having the speed and power to make a starting caliber back. Has been a bit of a dissapointment with the raiders. I dont watch much raider games but I know he had ball security issues in the past. I really dont see him as anything special.

 

 

My whole thing about turner is yeah he has some nice speed and runs with good power, however he's also backing up the best rb currently in the game. When LT comes out of games teams aren't focusing on Michael Turner. He also doesn't have the production that warrants giving a high 2nd rd pick to a afc superbowl contender. For a 4th rd pick sure. Anything more then that and I'll pass.

[Koufax]

This may be over analyzing, but one thought I always have about Turner is that he is also getting those numbers against defenses that have been preparing all week to do nothing but stop the run. Defensive game plans are created to stop Tomlinson, and while a different running style may help him in that respect, I still think it's impressive.

 

Like I said, I don't really have a huge desire to get Turner, but I wouldn't be upset at all if we gave up a second rounder to get him.

 

On the flip side (being in San Diego and getting all the Chargers games), he often plays when defenses are beat up and demotivated from chasing LT all day and having the game out of reach. I still like him a lot, and would consider the 2nd carefully and in the end probably make that offer.

[Tipster19]

Look, if we able to get Turner, then I'll be the first to grow that stupid little 4" goutee that he wears.

[Acantha]

On the flip side (being in San Diego and getting all the Chargers games), he often plays when defenses are beat up and demotivated from chasing LT all day and having the game out of reach.

 

Good point.

[Brandon]

Maybe im missing something.

 

502 yards, 6.3 avg, 2 TD's, 7 twenty+ yard runs, and 24 first downs ... as a backup. He had over 500 yards, and 24 first downs, as a backup - aka receiving minimal carries.

 

As I said. Maybe im missing something.

 

Kenneth Davis had over 600 yards rushing for the Bills in 1991 and 1992. Darrick Holmes had nearly 700 yards and was closing in on 1000 yards rushing and receiving combined as a rookie in 1995. The point is that it helps when an excellent starting RB and a good OL have already beaten the crap out of the opposing defense before you come into the game.

 

Turner could be a quality starter who just needs a chance, but he could also be like any number of backups who are largely the beneficiaries of someone else's success.

[Mile High]

Look, if we able to get Turner, then I'll be the first to grow that stupid little 4" goutee that he wears.

Marv will be the first one to lobby that he gets it removed .

 

Just for kicks I remembered that his combine hurt him a little in the draft. And the only time I can ever remember the kid getting caught from behind was Pac "Misdemeanor" Jones so I did some research.

 

4.42 in the 40

400-pound bench

385-pound squat

225 pounds 20 times (bench)

31½-inch vertical jump

 

They used to call the Turner "The Burner". And behind the new and improved oline he'd probably get to the second level quite a bit.

[jri111]

Plenty of backup rbs do such as but not limited to and currently excluding turner

 

Kevan Barlow- (split carries with garrison hearst looked like he had very good potential average a real good 5.1ypc in 2003 and went on to average 3.4, 3.3, and 2.8 the following 3 seasons

 

Troy Hambrick- After averaging 4.7, 5.1,4.0 backing up the aging emmitt smith finaly got his chance to prove himself and flunked out hasn't played a down since 2004

 

Lamont Jordan- Receiving limited but more opportunities then everyones current favorite backup Michael turner. Backing up curtis martin Lamont Jordan had the look of a starting back and some production for a team to warrant the chance. Showed potential as a legit receiving threat and having the speed and power to make a starting caliber back. Has been a bit of a dissapointment with the raiders. I dont watch much raider games but I know he had ball security issues in the past. I really dont see him as anything special.

My whole thing about turner is yeah he has some nice speed and runs with good power, however he's also backing up the best rb currently in the game. When LT comes out of games teams aren't focusing on Michael Turner. He also doesn't have the production that warrants giving a high 2nd rd pick to a afc superbowl contender. For a 4th rd pick sure. Anything more then that and I'll pass.

 

 

 

good research. I completely agree with the back-up analysis. I would take him for a third though, I think that would be a steal if he turns out. If, not, well we still have three first day picks and a great back up RB/or 1a for years to come. Of course, that's where the contract issue gets tricky.

[C.Biscuit97]

Plenty of backup rbs do such as but not limited to and currently excluding turner

 

Kevan Barlow- (split carries with garrison hearst looked like he had very good potential average a real good 5.1ypc in 2003 and went on to average 3.4, 3.3, and 2.8 the following 3 seasons

 

Troy Hambrick- After averaging 4.7, 5.1,4.0 backing up the aging emmitt smith finaly got his chance to prove himself and flunked out hasn't played a down since 2004

 

Lamont Jordan- Receiving limited but more opportunities then everyones current favorite backup Michael turner. Backing up curtis martin Lamont Jordan had the look of a starting back and some production for a team to warrant the chance. Showed potential as a legit receiving threat and having the speed and power to make a starting caliber back. Has been a bit of a dissapointment with the raiders. I dont watch much raider games but I know he had ball security issues in the past. I really dont see him as anything special.

My whole thing about turner is yeah he has some nice speed and runs with good power, however he's also backing up the best rb currently in the game. When LT comes out of games teams aren't focusing on Michael Turner. He also doesn't have the production that warrants giving a high 2nd rd pick to a afc superbowl contender. For a 4th rd pick sure. Anything more then that and I'll pass.

 

Very solid argument. Please allow me to counter.

 

Barlow was very solid for a while. However looking at his current stats, he has 13 career fumbles (including 5 in 2003 his best season). Turner has one.

 

Hambrick played behind great but aging olines in Dallas. Their line got old quickly.

 

I never got why everyone thinks Jordan was so terrible. In his first year with the Raiders, he rushed for over a 1,000 yards, caught 70 passes, and had 11 tds. I'd take that anyday. Please as proven by this year, the Raiders o-line is terrible. That said, Jordan was never a homerun threat.

 

Additionally of the backs you listed, they're all fairly large rbs. Barlow is listed at 234, Hambrick at 235, and Jordan at 230. Turner is 237 on a 5'10 frame (taller backs tend to get injuried more). I think it is also important to noted that Turner has average 6.0 ypc. Not for a season but his career. I get the LT factor but besides Gates, who else on their offense do you fear? You don't think d-coordinators wouldn't pay attention to a back averaging 6 for his career?

 

And while these are good examples, it shouldn't impact the future. If you are considering a back in the 2nd or 3rd, if the Bills think Turner is better than a rookie, why not take him? I notice that you have AP in your avatar. Great player but has had some serious injury problems. Is he really that much more of a better back with the 12th overall pick (or higher) than Turner (probably with less wear and tear) for a 2nd or possibly 3rd? Personally, I think not but that's Marvelous Marv's decision.

[Acantha]

And people say there's no good discussions on the Wall anymore.

[Mile High]

And people say there's no good discussions on the Wall anymore.

The HS kids are in bed. Shhh.

[jri111]

I have nothing againt Turner and I think he could be a good/great back in teh NFL but some observations/concerns I have:

 

 

1. People keep saying he had TONS more experience as any of the second round draft RB's. Although it's true that he's played in the NFL, the fact is, we don't know whether he can be a good starting running back in this league anymore then we know if Tony Hunt (or irons, pittman, *insert name here, etc...) would be. Yes, his numbers are good, but as pointed out in many other posts, that could be attributed to any number of things (Playing behind LT, Defenses not focusing on him, playing in such a good offense, etc...). Of course it could be him, the simple fact is, we just don't know. IMO the unknown factor is just as high for him as anyone you pick in the draft.

 

2. Although it's true he doesn't have the wear-n-tear as a starting RB who is 25, he's still 25. The human body starts to break down eventually, even if you're in excellent shape. Most of these guys in the draft are 21 or 22 years old. That's at least three years of youth you'd be giving up. Granted Turner hasn't been worn out, but like I said, no matter who you are, but especially for NFL RBs, you eventually start to break down. It's a trade off i guess....

 

3. Ideally, I think the way to get the best value for Turner is during the draft. This creates a problem though, since he needs a new contract. If you trade for him before the draft, what happens if Petterson falls in your lap and you just gave turner big $$. You can do one of three things... 1. take you defensive guy you want and just ignore that hes there. 2. try to find a trading partner that really wants him (GB? Tennessee?) and trade down -however, if Petterson is still there at 12, that means Lynch is too, so GB really wouldn't have too much incentive to trade up, MAYBE the titans though. or 3. Take Petterson and shop either him or Turner to another team in need. Any of them could work i guess... Ideally you'd like to see what happends in round one and then pull the trigger with a trade, but again the contract issue kindof makes that unlikly.

 

4. Lastly, it may be better to take the "wait-and-see" approach. Wait until after the draft and see what happens during the it (i.e. if Petterson fell to you, or if all the good RB's were gone and you had to settle for someone that wasn't your first choice, etc...). If Turner isn't traded by then this could be adventageous for a couple of reasons. First, there aren't too many teams that are in need of starting RBs (Top three: Cleveland, Buffalo, GB) and a handful of others who will probably target the second-tier backs for needed depth/youth. Two teams looking for starters will be eliminated for sure (petterson and lynch) which ultimately means SD won't have as many options if they haven't moved turner by then. Second, this also means that AJ's asking price will come down. He's not going to give him away, but maybe he'll start considering something lower then a two (like a 3rd and 7th?). Third, you don't waste a draft pick this year and can use your full aresnal to fill the needs on your team (and with the Mcgahee trade we have an extra third next year, so who would be upset if we used that pick with another to get a potential star RB?)

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Very solid argument. Please allow me to counter.quote]

 

 

Of the backs I listed Barlow was indeed solid for awhile. He was pretty good splitting carries with hearst. The feature back thing didn't really work out for him and he has regressed ever since.

 

As for Hambrick. No the oline wasn't good. They were a rather poor bunch runblocking and pass blocking, and made the post season strictly on the strength of their defense. However using Hambrick and getting rushing yards from several other rb's achieved a 12th overall rank in rushing offense in 2003. 4th in attempts. So while the run blocking was poor the effort was there. To be a good rb though you have to have balance and vision. Hambrick had neither and in 2004 once again ended up backing up emmitt smith in arizona.

 

I dont really think Lamont Jordan is terrible. I think he's a decent rb who if he's splitting carries with someone can be very effective in a dual rb role. Hes not a guy I like seeing touch the ball 25 times a game. He was underused with the jets but over his head as a 1a type back.

 

Jordan and Turner are basicaly listed at the same size. Jordan at 5'10 230. Turner at 5'10 237. Turner does have better speed however take into considerination the production of the backs prior to jordan becoming a starter. His stats were better then Turners. Jordan had 1,277 yards on 262 carries a 4.9ypc average 11 tds(10 rush 1 rec. Not to mention and additional 417 yards on receiving yards. Compensation for production. Nothing in return for the jets.

 

While overall Turner has done a pretty good job in spelling LT. He has not had any significant carries. He has very good speed and initital quickness to get to the 2nd level and be a big play threat. However he's shown zero ability to be a reliable receiving option. While Defensive coordinators are probably fully aware of what Turner has done as a backup. I doubt a lot of emphasis is put into stoping him during game plans. As For who is there to fear besides LT and Gates.

 

Phillip Rivers may be a rookie, but play extrodinary football. While not having the best stable of receivers, at times Parker and Vincent Jackson were relibale options. Back to turner. The overall average is nice but you're taking a very limited number of carries and using it as proof. I'm just skeptical if that warrants much compensation if any in return.

 

 

As for why the bills shouldn't offer a 2nd rd pick. Well for one I dont believe in throwing away high draft picks for potential players on other teams. Turner may very turn out to be a very good rb, but I'd rather have the unknown prospect with potential then give draft picks to a in confrence superbowl contender. As for Adrian Peterson in my avatar I know it's a pipe dream, but I really think he's far and away the best rb in the draft, so up until draft day I'll continue to dream that dream.

[OnTheRocks]

if i managed the Bills and had a chance to get Turner for the #44 pick (Bills 2nd), i would pull that trigger.

i have talked to enough Charger fans that have seen him play every week to believe he is "all that".

[Chilly]

The HS kids are in bed. Shhh.

 

UR MOMS IN BED, MY BED LOL

 

[Pete]

I would love to get Turner for our second round pick! Proven NFL player versus speculation. Turner is better then Anthony or Willis

[2003]

You think the closer we get to the draft the asking price for Turner may drop? Would you give up the Bills second round pick for the guy? Interesting.....

 

Edit: And if Chris Brown is "hearing" this it might mean that the Bills are looking at Turner as an option. Right?

I'd take him for a second any day of the week!

This would be a great draft!

[marauderswr80]

id never give a first for Turner. However, its appealing to give a 2nd rounder for him.