NFL Live just murdered the Bills offseason moves

[Pneumonic]

First time poster long time lurker.

 

We all need to realize that Marv is tearing down the team in order to rebuild it. When this happens you tend to have turnover where you lose good players and might not immediately get better or more capable players to replace them with. This is what is happening to us right now. It's the growing pains of rebuilding our team where we have to walk before we can run. The key is how do we replace them lost players ...... over time and not over a couple of weeks time. Hopefully Marv has the proper gameplan in place to do so and we successfully see those new players being added.

[Orton's Arm]

1. We certainly lost one of the best DBs in the league. I don't blame the Bills on this one, but it is a hole that needs to be filled. Fortunately, in our D-scheme, it is a hole that can be adequately filled by a good CB or two and improvements in the DL

 

2. We did not lose a decent MLB, we lost a GREAT MLB. London should have been a regular Pro Bowl player, and may have the chance to be one in DC. I think we should have kept him. IF Spikes returns to form, we should be OK here, if not we will probably have some trouble. Fletch's leadership and knowledge will not be easily replaced, however.

 

3. Bingo! We lost a good back and retained a good back. "Good backs are a dime-a-dozen" (Repeat this mantra every time you start to worry about losing Willis.) MaGahee didn't want to be here and was probably not the best team guy. I think the Bills may be better off as a result of this move.

 

4. Raiders fans may not think that highly of Walker, but to be fair their whole line sucked, and Raider's fans are not the most objective when it comes to analysis. Does any RESPECTABLE expert doubt the Bills have made a MAJOR improvement in the O-Line? I've heard some question the cost of the moves, but I have yet to see an intelligent analysis that doesn't admit the Bills should have a good O-line this year.

 

Let me add:

 

5. We gained a 3rd round draft and a bunch of cash with should help us make moves.

 

6. It's mid-MARCH.

 

What I just gave is an overly-simplistic analysis of the Bills situation, yet it is way more complete than almost any you will get in the press (and that includes ESPN). Certainly many here have done a better and more complete job than I.

 

What's my point? A. The bad is not as bad as it looks on the surface. B. It's WAY TOO EARLY to evaluate any offseason moves. The moves are still being made. At least wait until after the draft to see what teams have done. Finally, C. if you are going to evaluate this early in the process, at least consider what the team is likely trying to accomplish and try to see the if their strategy is likely to get them there. Of course that requires more work than most reporters want to do and the resulting story is more complicated than most consumers of the reports can comprehend.

A good post. But the scope of the article was to identify teams which lost more than they gained in free agency. And the article has a point. The Bills have lost the following players:

- Nate Clements, Willis McGahee, London Fletcher, Mike Gandy.

 

The Bills have added the following players:

- Dockery, Langston Walker, 3rd round pick

 

Mike Gandy > Langston Walker

Dockery + 3rd round pick < Clements + McGahee + Fletcher

 

In the short run, the Bills' offseason moves represent a step backwards. But the only loss that will create long-term pain is Clements. And on the plus side of the ledger, we've added Dockery and those picks for McGahee. In the long run, these offseason moves should make us a (somewhat) better team. And even going into 2007, the Bills could easily be a better team due to our upcoming draft picks, and to younger guys from last year's team playing better this year.

[oregonbbfan]

Agree on what JSP said about the so called analysts. They are not going to give Bullalo respect because they do not work or follow them like we do.

 

That said, I too feel we are getting better and as much as I have been a lttle down on Marv, ( cash to cap, not signing big names and coming across unknowledgeable in the press conference) I like what he has and is doing. He is a sly old fox and is smarter than he comes accross by design. He does not want to give away his plan and he does have one. All his moves are starting to make sense when you look at the big picture.

 

Last Year he got rid of old and malcontented players. Had a good draft, Result:we improved.

 

This year he finished the job with anyone too expensive or not wanting to be on the team. Result: Better team chemistry, improved weakness ( OL ) and have another year of system knowledge. Need a good draft and maybe another couple FA's.

 

Last and very important, with a young, fast, team oriented group of improving experienced players, Marv will go into next year with a boatload of cash ( because of cash to cap) to get all the remaining pieces needed to get us into the playoffs or further. Result: Good team for many years

 

Whether we get to the playoffs with this years schedule will depend on how we do the rest of this off season, still early.

 

In Marv we trust!

[The Dean]

A good post.

 

 

Thank you! Your's too

 

Oh...wait, there was more.

 

But the scope of the article was to identify teams which lost more than they gained in free agency. And the article has a point. The Bills have lost the following players:

- Nate Clements, Willis McGahee, London Fletcher, Mike Gandy.

 

The Bills have added the following players:

- Dockery, Langston Walker, 3rd round pick

 

Mike Gandy > Langston Walker

Dockery + 3rd round pick < Clements + McGahee + Fletcher

 

In the short run, the Bills' offseason moves represent a step backwards. But the only loss that will create long-term pain is Clements. And on the plus side of the ledger, we've added Dockery and those picks for McGahee. In the long run, these offseason moves should make us a (somewhat) better team. And even going into 2007, the Bills could easily be a better team due to our upcoming draft picks, and to younger guys from last year's team playing better this year.

 

I think many of us are sayin it's to early to grade/evaluate a team's free agency/offseason moves. A move-by-move analysis is fine, but not an overall evaluation, at this stage.

 

I disagree with one of your assessments:

 

Walker and Whittle (together) > Gandy

[MRW]

Reverse your logic -> are u telling me that adding Nate to the Patriots/Bears/Saints would have gotten them a SB? - of course not.

I will tell you this, put Nate on the Saints roster and they almost certainly would have been playing in the Super Bowl.

 

Look, argue that Nate wasn't worth the contract he got and I can respect that. But don't try to convince me that's he's not a great player. He played lights out last year.

[KOKBILLS]

No - We have wasted 9 years with retards running things. We have one year under Marv&DJ that clearly demonstrates improvement. This is another year, and I don't see any reason, based on last year, to be thinking things won't continue to improve.

 

Here's a dose of REALITY for ya:

 

We are 38-58(from 2001) with Clements, Fletcher, McGahee,(hate to do it but Spikes too) all starting on this team. Those are the results of our "playmakers". Hmm what's that about the definition of insanity again? Oh yeah, that's right: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Clearly it's time get some real playmakers in here and cut/trade/ignore the FA of these posers - who are, and always have been, the real reason we were getting told "we are 2 years away".

 

Well said...

 

And I'm not taking anything away from those individual Players because they are good Football Players...But those 3 were certainly not "difference makers" in Buffalo during their stay, and they are all getting "difference maker" money now...So we'll see I guess...

 

I think Levy and Jauron have a Plan and they are going to stick their Plan and let the chips fall where they may...I'm not sure about 2007 yet, but I definitely think the future is brighter now than it has been for some time as far as the Bills are concerned. And I like the fact that these "experts" are underestimating The Bills already...Sounds a bit familiar to Me...Kinda like that interview I heard right before last Season with the all-knowing John Clayton in which He had a hard time deciding if the Bills were the 3rd or 4th worst Team in the NFL...

 

Let's face it The Buffalo Bills are no longer Media darlings, if they ever were..It's easy to sit back and call out Buffalo on their decisions because these idiots think no one cares about the Bills Nationally anyway...But as soon as the Bills pull off an Upset or two they will be right there to praise them and say how it's obvious that Hall Of Fame Coach knows what He's doing...It's all a bunch of nothing...I guarantee there are 3 Guys who know a heck of a lot about NFL Football that will not underestimate the Bills this coming Season...Their Names are Belichick, Mangini, and Cameron...

[Prognastic]

I am saying right here right now.....THE BILLS WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR. It might be a one and done in a wildcard.....but we ARE going to make it.

 

Lets take a look at this claim shall we?

 

I think it can be said that most reasonable Bills fans know they arent winning the division. That means they must fight for one of the 2 wild card spots. Lets look at the competition with the assumptions that New England, Indianapolis, San Diego and Baltimore win their respective divisions;

 

NY Jets - an up and coming team though personally, I believe they will take a step back record-wise due to a tougher schedule.

 

Pittsburgh - 1 year removed from a Super Bowl run, Roethlisberger is healthy again.

 

Cincinnati - Carson Palmer is the real deal. If they can keep out of jail, they'll contend at the very least.

 

Jacksonville - I'm not sold on Leftwich over Garrard but they are still a decent team.

 

Tennessee - Vince Young and this whole team showed a lot the 2nd half of the season. Lets see what happens with Pac Man however.

 

Denver - they've made some pretty big moves this offseason and could compete with San Diego for the division.

 

Kansas City - They always seem to find themselves in the mix.

 

 

 

Lets also assume the loser of the Denver/San Diego division champ will secure a WC spot.

 

Are the Bills better than the rest of those teams given all they've lost this offseason?

[K-Gun10]

they obviously didnt see that we signed kiwankee today.

[Mickey]

They said because of signing Dockery and losing Clements, Fletcher, and McGahee, (all 3 guys we weren't going to pay for the price they were asking) we made the worst offseason moves. They just called the Bills, indirectly, the one worst teams heading into this season.

 

Not much better here

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10057091

 

RIDICULOUS! We aren't THAT bad.

 

I can't wait until the day were back in the playoffs. IT WILL BE THIS YEAR!

 

 

Right, these are the same guys who said our draft last year was an unmitigated disaster and that our GM was senile.

 

I'm not worried. Watch Marv show them up again.

[Sketch Soland]

Lets take a look at this claim shall we?

 

Okay, let's turn the spotlight on yours now

 

I think it can be said that most reasonable Bills fans know they arent winning the division.

 

by reasonable, you of course mean "psychic", as in the ability to see the future, as in the ability to prognosticate that there is 0% chance the Bills can win the division this upcoming year.

 

That means they must fight for one of the 2 wild card spots. Lets look at the competition with the assumptions that New England, Indianapolis, San Diego and Baltimore win their respective divisions;

 

You can't make these assumptions. The NFL is too chock full of parity to assume this. Neither the Bengals nor the Steelers even made the playoffs last year, and who called that at this point last year? Not to mention this team below:

 

NY Jets - an up and coming team though personally, I believe they will take a step back record-wise due to a tougher schedule.

 

Yes, this team. Who thought the Jets would make the playoffs this time last year?

 

Pittsburgh - 1 year removed from a Super Bowl run, Roethlisberger is healthy again.

 

Cincinnati - Carson Palmer is the real deal. If they can keep out of jail, they'll contend at the very least.

 

Jacksonville - I'm not sold on Leftwich over Garrard but they are still a decent team.

 

Tennessee - Vince Young and this whole team showed a lot the 2nd half of the season. Lets see what happens with Pac Man however.

 

Denver - they've made some pretty big moves this offseason and could compete with San Diego for the division.

 

Kansas City - They always seem to find themselves in the mix.

Lets also assume the loser of the Denver/San Diego division champ will secure a WC spot.

 

Are the Bills better than the rest of those teams given all they've lost this offseason?

 

I don't know, the evidence will begin to accrue tomorrow after the 1st regular season game. Oh wait.....

[bbills17]

I believe many of the fans on this board have too high of an expectaction for the Bills next season and also believe this off-season has been more productive than it truly has been. Let me just recap: The Bills lost one of the best DB's in the league, a decent MLB, and a good RB. In return we have signed one good offensive lineman, and an offensive lineman that Raiders fans have called a "turnstile." Therefore I must pardon the media for believing that we have had a sub-par off-season.

 

Sorry I think you're wrong there. WM was a punk, and when you factor in everything you want in a RB to classify him as good, he doesn't come anywhere close.

[Dr. K]

Bills will make the playoffs this year.

 

Those who are focussing on the loss of Clements, Fletcher and McGahee do not see the picture. This is a young team, getting better. All they can see is that the Bills lost some players; they are not accounting for likely improvements in the players held over from last year, and the players tom come from future moves and the draft.

 

Last year's team was a total of about 20 points from 11-5. I don't deny that Clements played well, and that McGahee had some good games, and that Fletcher made some plays and a lot of tackles. But I don't think the difference between their play and the play of their likely replacments, will add up to a larger decline than the improvement of younger players already on the club and the addition of a strong draft will add up to an improvement.

 

That's my story right now, and I'm sticking to it.

[Lurker]

long time lurker.

It's an epidemic...

[daquix]

1. We certainly lost one of the best DBs in the league. I don't blame the Bills on this one, but it is a hole that needs to be filled. Fortunately, in our D-scheme, it is a hole that can be adequately filled by a good CB or two and improvements in the DL

 

2. We did not lose a decent MLB, we lost a GREAT MLB. London should have been a regular Pro Bowl player, and may have the chance to be one in DC. I think we should have kept him. IF Spikes returns to form, we should be OK here, if not we will probably have some trouble. Fletch's leadership and knowledge will not be easily replaced, however.

 

3. Bingo! We lost a good back and retained a good back. "Good backs are a dime-a-dozen" (Repeat this mantra every time you start to worry about losing Willis.) MaGahee didn't want to be here and was probably not the best team guy. I think the Bills may be better off as a result of this move.

 

4. Raiders fans may not think that highly of Walker, but to be fair their whole line sucked, and Raider's fans are not the most objective when it comes to analysis. Does any RESPECTABLE expert doubt the Bills have made a MAJOR improvement in the O-Line? I've heard some question the cost of the moves, but I have yet to see an intelligent analysis that doesn't admit the Bills should have a good O-line this year.

 

Let me add:

 

5. We gained a 3rd round draft and a bunch of cash with should help us make moves.

 

6. It's mid-MARCH.

 

What I just gave is an overly-simplistic analysis of the Bills situation, yet it is way more complete than almost any you will get in the press (and that includes ESPN). Certainly many here have done a better and more complete job than I.

 

What's my point? A. The bad is not as bad as it looks on the surface. B. It's WAY TOO EARLY to evaluate any offseason moves. The moves are still being made. At least wait until after the draft to see what teams have done. Finally, C. if you are going to evaluate this early in the process, at least consider what the team is likely trying to accomplish and try to see the if their strategy is likely to get them there. Of course that requires more work than most reporters want to do and the resulting story is more complicated than most consumers of the reports can comprehend.

 

Agreed. My point was simply that this off-season has not been nearly as productive as a lot of Bills fans seem to think it has been. We have gained ONE quality player. Dockery. The others were poor offensive lineman for their old teams. Hopefully things will change.

 

And that accounts for your ill-advised Deion example how exactly?

 

Better players than Nate:

 

Aaron Schobel

Brian Moorman

 

Um, Pro-Bowlers.

 

Is that a joke?