Pyrite Gal Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 If the Bills could get at least a 5th round pick for him, I'd be happy with a trade. This team should be worried about more than just this year, and it has bigger problems than the #3 QB spot. 761558[/snapback] Despite popular opinion, KH remains #2 on the Bills depth chart. Perhaps marv is keeping him there to increase what he would get ion a trade for KH, but Nall did not show in the last pre-season game that he is ready to start 0or even do more than mop-up work as a back-up in the NFL right now. Holcomb pn the other hand did show great improvement over his horredous performance in campr and pre-season games prior to his fairly good outing against the lowly Lions last week. it really is a close judgment call which those who are focused on how they practiced and how they handle themselves in the locker room and in discussions with the coaches which really allows for good judgnebts about whether Nall was simply pressing in the last two pre-season games because he lost so much quality time to injury or whrther KH's hiorrendous performance in the first 2/3 of camp was due tp jo, hitting the wall as an older player OR instead was simply a demonstration of why he could never achieve starting QB status in his 10 year career despite some outstanding episodic performances and good accumulated stats. Potential simply means you have not done anything yet, and Holcomb is well into the backside of his career so in essence he really has no potential. If he could ever have realized it he would have done so by now. However, the judgment to be made is whether Nall has anything other than potential and if so how long would it take for it to be reaslized. I certainly do not argue that Holcomb is a QB capable of starting in the NFL. He is not. However, he has been a good back-up capable of producing in one or two games even in crunch time. I think the decision is whether one thinks he has a chance of doing this in the Fairchild O at this stage in his career OR whether the untested and unproven Nall in any real situations of greater import than mop-up time can do this. Actually, what i do argue is that our fan opinions are worth even less than they are usually worth on this point. We are all entitled as fans to believe and say what we want (within the standards of conduct decided by the moderators) what I argue is that a fan can actually judge somethings fairly well given a careers worth of data and really seeing players perform in a system or at crunch time. In this case, Nall's field time has been so limited by injury and really has been some good and some bad (very bad actually IMHO with his INTs happening on the brink of something good happening but I think he was pressing a bit more than normal because he was trying too hard to compensate for time lose to injury)that fan judments (mine included) are simply not worth very much on this question. The same is true regarding Holcomb where actually we do have a career's wprth of experience to base our judgments on. However, though his career indicates that he really cannot be the starting QB, it does indicate he is a good back-up to have. Ironically, his production in the first 2/3 of pre-season was completely counter to the good back-up performance of his career. The judgment on him is about whether the Holcomb we would see this year is the horrible in all cases one we saw the first two/thirds of pre-season or the reasonable back-up we saw in the last game. It really takes a lot of info not available to us fans to make even a half-baked guess. What i think this comes down to is what do we think the Bills will do. Again, I think many fans make a poor assessment of what Ralph and Marv want because they seem mostly interested in building a winner in the future because they are pretty sure this team will not make the playoffs this year (I think this is actually a correct judgment). However, i think the Golden Boys are simply in a different place than many fans on TSW in that they certainly want to build for the future, but as octogenarians and businessmen they put a much greater priority than many fans on TSW on winning as much as they can now even if they fail to make the playoffs. I think that the braintrust will likely want to stick with KH as a Bill until Nall shows a it more in practice. There is still to large a chance that JP will prove not worthy and that Nal would be a disaster if one depended upon him for them to simply toos KH on the asheap. KH showed enough in the last game to secure the #2 position though good practice from Nall could bounce him. They might trade Holcomb, but it would take a good deal to get them to part with him. A seond day draft choice is not a good deal IMHO. Many fans seem to put too much stock in the draft because fantasy football and ESPN wal to wall coverage have really promoted it. However, thedraft is simply a crapshoot in real life and for every McGee on the second day there are multiple more Mike Pacillo's and Jarret Fergusonss. If all the Bills get for Holcomb is a second day choice outside of the texans 4th rounder it is like giving him away and the downside appears to high for the braintrust to want to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mexicanbills45 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 The C. J. leak era has begun ! 761516[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Despite popular opinion, KH remains #2 on the Bills depth chart. Perhaps marv is keeping him there to increase what he would get ion a trade for KH, but Nall did not show in the last pre-season game that he is ready to start 0or even do more than mop-up work as a back-up in the NFL right now. Holcomb pn the other hand did show great improvement over his horredous performance in campr and pre-season games prior to his fairly good outing against the lowly Lions last week. it really is a close judgment call which those who are focused on how they practiced and how they handle themselves in the locker room and in discussions with the coaches which really allows for good judgnebts about whether Nall was simply pressing in the last two pre-season games because he lost so much quality time to injury or whrther KH's hiorrendous performance in the first 2/3 of camp was due tp jo, hitting the wall as an older player OR instead was simply a demonstration of why he could never achieve starting QB status in his 10 year career despite some outstanding episodic performances and good accumulated stats. can you make your post a little shorter . takes to long to read . Potential simply means you have not done anything yet, and Holcomb is well into the backside of his career so in essence he really has no potential. If he could ever have realized it he would have done so by now. However, the judgment to be made is whether Nall has anything other than potential and if so how long would it take for it to be reaslized. I certainly do not argue that Holcomb is a QB capable of starting in the NFL. He is not. However, he has been a good back-up capable of producing in one or two games even in crunch time. I think the decision is whether one thinks he has a chance of doing this in the Fairchild O at this stage in his career OR whether the untested and unproven Nall in any real situations of greater import than mop-up time can do this. Actually, what i do argue is that our fan opinions are worth even less than they are usually worth on this point. We are all entitled as fans to believe and say what we want (within the standards of conduct decided by the moderators) what I argue is that a fan can actually judge somethings fairly well given a careers worth of data and really seeing players perform in a system or at crunch time. In this case, Nall's field time has been so limited by injury and really has been some good and some bad (very bad actually IMHO with his INTs happening on the brink of something good happening but I think he was pressing a bit more than normal because he was trying too hard to compensate for time lose to injury)that fan judments (mine included) are simply not worth very much on this question. The same is true regarding Holcomb where actually we do have a career's wprth of experience to base our judgments on. However, though his career indicates that he really cannot be the starting QB, it does indicate he is a good back-up to have. Ironically, his production in the first 2/3 of pre-season was completely counter to the good back-up performance of his career. The judgment on him is about whether the Holcomb we would see this year is the horrible in all cases one we saw the first two/thirds of pre-season or the reasonable back-up we saw in the last game. It really takes a lot of info not available to us fans to make even a half-baked guess. What i think this comes down to is what do we think the Bills will do. Again, I think many fans make a poor assessment of what Ralph and Marv want because they seem mostly interested in building a winner in the future because they are pretty sure this team will not make the playoffs this year (I think this is actually a correct judgment). However, i think the Golden Boys are simply in a different place than many fans on TSW in that they certainly want to build for the future, but as octogenarians and businessmen they put a much greater priority than many fans on TSW on winning as much as they can now even if they fail to make the playoffs. I think that the braintrust will likely want to stick with KH as a Bill until Nall shows a it more in practice. There is still to large a chance that JP will prove not worthy and that Nal would be a disaster if one depended upon him for them to simply toos KH on the asheap. KH showed enough in the last game to secure the #2 position though good practice from Nall could bounce him. They might trade Holcomb, but it would take a good deal to get them to part with him. A seond day draft choice is not a good deal IMHO. Many fans seem to put too much stock in the draft because fantasy football and ESPN wal to wall coverage have really promoted it. However, thedraft is simply a crapshoot in real life and for every McGee on the second day there are multiple more Mike Pacillo's and Jarret Fergusonss. If all the Bills get for Holcomb is a second day choice outside of the texans 4th rounder it is like giving him away and the downside appears to high for the braintrust to want to do this. 761618[/snapback] long post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quester74 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Well, I think that we will get a 5th, 6th, or 7th round pick for Holcomb. 761532[/snapback] Holcomb isn't even worth a 7th.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Bird in the hand... Three decent quarterbacks are a must for this team -- it looks like they are going to get hit as much as Bledsoe ever was. I am not sure Losman and Nall are up to the abuse. As much as I don't want to see Holcomb, they might as well play the hand they were dealt. . 761510[/snapback] Seems to be a feeling on this thread that Nall is #2. At the moment he's #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 Holcomb isn't even worth a 7th.. 761625[/snapback] He's worth a draft pick. Even a 7th pick is still ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightClub Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Considering the state of our team, I would make the trade. Doesn't really matter what round the draft pick is, but I'd of course like to get something better than 7th round. I feel Nall should be given the shot at backup - he played well enough and don't forget the money we are paying him is not bad either. Then we should pick up another young QB to serve as #3. Let's face it, this is a young team and having a veteran QB at this point means what? Here are some young QBs that are out there after the roster cuts: Dave Ragone (cut by Rams) - real strong arm, lots of potential Brian St. Pierre (cut by Ravens) Stefan Lefors (cut by Panthers) - very smart, heady player Brett Basanez (cut by Panters) - another good prospect from the Carolina system J.T O'Sullivan (cut by Vikings) - probably has had his chances already, but at one time was a good prospect. Might be a little too "veteran" right now. Bryan Randall (cut by Falcons) - lots of tools Omar Jacobs (cut by Steelers) - would be like an extra draft flier These are some of the ones I like more than Holcomb on my roster, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 http://www.kffl.com/player/462/nfl Colts | Team may be forced to pursue a QB Mon, 4 Sep 2006 07:26:48 -0700 Mike Chappell, of the Indianapolis Star, reports if Indianapolis Colts backup QB Jim Sorgi's (shoulder) shoulder continues to be a problem or the Colts have an interest in acquiring another veteran, two might be available. Reports have the Buffalo Bills willing to part with QB Kelly Holcomb and the Tennessee Titans at least willing to listen to overtures for QB Billy Volek. Oh, I hope this happens. I don't want Holcomb in Buffalo anymore. Lets find a better veteran Qb. 761498[/snapback] i don't know if Polian would do this, it would definately create a Holcomb/Manning QB controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 i don't know if Polian would do this, it would definately create a Holcomb/Manning QB controversy. 761661[/snapback] HAHAHAHAHHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInSouthBuffalo Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Well, I think that we will get a 5th, 6th, or 7th round pick for Holcomb. 761532[/snapback] I'd ask for a 4th and settle for a 5th. They NEED and WANT an experienced backup. Losing Holcomb would deprive us of a #3 QB too. Logically any pick from the Colts is going to be really late in any given round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fla Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Given the relationship between Marv & Polian, I could see a trade happening. All things being = (draft pick wise), I think they would rather have Volik than Holcomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'd ask for a 4th and settle for a 5th. They NEED and WANT an experienced backup. Losing Holcomb would deprive us of a #3 QB too. Logically any pick from the Colts is going to be really late in any given round. 761717[/snapback] #2 QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 i don't know if Polian would do this, it would definately create a Holcomb/Manning QB controversy. 761661[/snapback] Polian could easily avoid that controversy by simply trading straight up – Manning for Holcomb. I'd make that trade. Think of all those swell commercials now featuring Manning in a Bill's jersey. It'd be kewl! Come on Marv! Peyton Manning - I've heard of him. Get er dun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Seems to be a feeling on this thread that Nall is #2. At the moment he's #3. 761641[/snapback] Just a hunch, but think Nall might move up the depth chart if Holcomb is traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elcrusho Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 WVUFootball29.... How's my Avatar I made workin out for ya?? =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Just a hunch, but think Nall might move up the depth chart if Holcomb is traded. Unless he gets injured during the moving process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 it really is a close judgment call which those who are focused on how they practiced and how they handle themselves in the locker room and in discussions with the coaches which really allows for good judgnebts about whether Nall was simply pressing in the last two pre-season games because he lost so much quality time to injury or whrther KH's hiorrendous performance in the first 2/3 of camp was due tp jo, hitting the wall as an older player OR instead was simply a demonstration of why he could never achieve starting QB status in his 10 year career despite some outstanding episodic performances and good accumulated stats. 761618[/snapback] This is why I can't make it through your posts. What does this mean? It may as well be written in Chinese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 This is why I can't make it through your posts. What does this mean? It may as well be written in Chinese. 762011[/snapback] He actually IS Chinese and he writes his posts in Chinese. It's just that his translator has a drinking problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 He actually IS Chinese and he writes his posts in Chinese. It's just that his translator has a drinking problem. 762013[/snapback] either that or someone never learned the home row keys in typing class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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