X. Benedict Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 theirs is not to question why. theirs is but to do or die 663941[/snapback] Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. Although the poem sounds heroic, I think Tennyson makes it pretty clear it was a dumbass charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Thats what they would have done if their country hadn't called on them. Neither retired from the military and went directly into politics. Washington went back to Marth's Vineyard after the Revolutionary War and came back after the Constitional Convention Called on him Ike retired from the Army, became a University President, then Supreme NATO Commander before the GOP asked him to run 663955[/snapback] So its okay to be political if a bunch of politicians ask you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 So its okay to be political if a bunch of politicians ask you? 663962[/snapback] Is it okay to go to war if a bunch of politicians ask you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Is it okay to go to war if a bunch of politicians ask you? 663967[/snapback] Depends on what office the politician holds and whether or not Congress has authorized it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Depends on what office the politician holds and whether or not Congress has authorized it. 663970[/snapback] You've just answered you own question So its okay to be political if a bunch of politicians ask you?. It depends who is doing the asking and why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 You've just answered you own question So its okay to be political if a bunch of politicians ask you?. It depends who is doing the asking and why 663972[/snapback] Except that my answer was based on something called the CONSTITUTION. Now if you could find something in that document that stated that retired generals should just fade away ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Except that my answer was based on something called the CONSTITUTION. Now if you could find something in that document that stated that retired generals should just fade away ... 663991[/snapback] http://www.goodspeechtopics.com/famous-spe...-fade-away.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 http://www.goodspeechtopics.com/famous-spe...-fade-away.html 663995[/snapback] Great. Now if you could just get that into the Constitution, I might agree with you. As it stands, it is just one mans opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Zinni is a Clinton general. The guy never had a command in the Marine Corps. He was a career advisor, and deputy. He would have never seen a star if Clinton wasn't elected and half the Corps generals bolted rather then serve under Clinton. He supported Bush, only because Gore was so screwed up. As far as Kerry goes, it was really he didn't like either candidate, as much of the country felt the same. Bush wasn't really a good choice, but Kerry was just an aweful option. There are other "Clinton Generals" who have spoken on Bushs behalf however, including General Pace, who is a Brookings institute, avowed Democrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 All I have to say if the Iraq war planners had a gameplan as tight as those defending the Bush administration from criticism, our boys would be home by now. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Zinni is a Clinton general. The guy never had a command in the Marine Corps. He was a career advisor, and deputy. He would have never seen a star if Clinton wasn't elected and half the Corps generals bolted rather then serve under Clinton. He supported Bush, only because Gore was so screwed up. As far as Kerry goes, it was really he didn't like either candidate, as much of the country felt the same. Bush wasn't really a good choice, but Kerry was just an aweful option. There are other "Clinton Generals" who have spoken on Bushs behalf however, including General Pace, who is a Brookings institute, avowed Democrat. 664071[/snapback] There is only one factual matter that can be addressed from your post. Zinni got his first star under Bush 41, well before the 1992 elections for that matter. As for why Zinni supported Bush in 2000, I'll take your statement for what it is, speculation on the part of a fierce partisan. As far as Peter Pace goes, I'm going to keep in mind that he still is in uniform and is thus not able to criticize the civilian leadership. Howeve I will note that he advanced further under Clinton than Zinni did, so does that make him a Clinton general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 All I have to say if the Iraq war planners had a gameplan as tight as those defending the Bush administration from criticism, our boys would be home by now. PTR 664089[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Thats what they would have done if their country hadn't called on them. Neither retired from the military and went directly into politics. Washington went back to Marth's Vineyard after the Revolutionary War and came back after the Constitional Convention Called on him Ike retired from the Army, became a University President, then Supreme NATO Commander before the GOP asked him to run 663955[/snapback] I don't know how to respond in any kind of intelligent way to your simplicitic responses, I think Scraps has it right, not so much partisan with the exception of Clark and Franks. I still don't know enough about the internal workings of the military hierarchy. Obviously there are military politics to play, but the criticism seems less about partisanship and more about whistle blowing on Rumsfeld and the mishandling of the Iraq War. CTWs analysis of Rumsfeld may have pissed a few off and knowing how beaucracies work, I think is the more likely scenario. Rumsfeld's incompetence has been exposed and they are taking advantage of his fallen stature to express their views on that incompetence, but regardless of their motivation, their words seem to ring true. BiB, I know you know the inside game better than most around here concerning DOD, what do you think, sour grapes and Rumsfeld negative exposure is allowing the former Generals to feel safe to voice their thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 The press, as one general has said is "Stuck on Stupid." This all started after Rummy critcized one of them at a press conference and they got their panties in a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 The press, as one general has said is "Stuck on Stupid." This all started after Rummy critcized one of them at a press conference and they got their panties in a bunch. 664238[/snapback] And military intelligence is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 All I have to say if the Iraq war planners had a gameplan as tight as those defending the Bush administration from criticism, our boys would be home by now. PTR 664089[/snapback] Yeah. Uh, war is not something that can be planned out 4 years in advance. It's a fluid and ever-changing thing. Ask the French pre-WWII how planning to fight the next war using the maxims of the previous war works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 There is only one factual matter that can be addressed from your post. Zinni got his first star under Bush 41, well before the 1992 elections for that matter. As for why Zinni supported Bush in 2000, I'll take your statement for what it is, speculation on the part of a fierce partisan. As far as Peter Pace goes, I'm going to keep in mind that he still is in uniform and is thus not able to criticize the civilian leadership. Howeve I will note that he advanced further under Clinton than Zinni did, so does that make him a Clinton general? 664136[/snapback] You're are correct he did get one star, I believe in '91. I had forgotten about that. But again, he saw his "star" rise with the election of Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Yeah. Uh, war is not something that can be planned out 4 years in advance. It's a fluid and ever-changing thing. Ask the French pre-WWII how planning to fight the next war using the maxims of the previous war works out. 664271[/snapback] Uh, right. Kind of like saying "we had no idea the levees would breach" after Katrina? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirius99 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Uh, right. Kind of like saying "we had no idea the levees would breach" after Katrina? PTR 665608[/snapback] As far as I know, levees don't have a will of their own, so no, nothing like that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirius99 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 The criticisms directed at Rumsfeld from retired Generals should give the American people a very good feeling about the job the Secretary of Defense is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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