Bill from NYC Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Ugh! Let's not go there again. Please, Marv......say "no" to the "big dancing bear" type OL like Williams, Leonard Davis, and this year's version, Marcus McNeil. 659774[/snapback] A poster (wish I could remember who it was) described these guys as "bullies." Imo, this makes perfect sense. These guys are SO big and strong that in college, they can simply maul their weaker opponents with very little effort. As we know, this doesn't work in the NFL, because the opponents are all pretty damn good. This is why Pace was always my favorite. He can maul, pass block, move, and anything else he wants, even though he has lost a step. When he was at his peak, he was the best ever (again, imo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 A poster (wish I could remember who it was) described these guys as "bullies." Imo, this makes perfect sense. These guys are SO big and strong that in college, they can simply maul their weaker opponents with very little effort. As we know, this doesn't work in the NFL, because the opponents are all pretty damn good. This is why Pace was always my favorite. He can maul, pass block, move, and anything else he wants, even though he has lost a step. When he was at his peak, he was the best ever (again, imo). 659778[/snapback] Pace is certainly one of the most dominant OL of all. There have been some pretty good ones (living here in Baltimore, the name of the late Jim Parker immediately comes to mind), but I'd put him near the top for sure. As I've said before, he's proof positive that the Hypeman Trophy is a joke. Clearly, Pace was the best player in college football the year he finished 4th in the voting: Danny Wuerffel Florida Sr. QB 2nd Troy Davis Iowa State Jr. RB 3rd Jake Plummer Arizona State Sr. QB 4th Orlando Pace Ohio State Jr. OT 5th Warrick Dunn Florida State Sr. RB 6th Byron Hanspard Texas Tech Jr. RB 7th Darnell Autry Northwestern Jr. RB 8th Peyton Manning Tennessee Jr. QB 9th Marcus Harris Wyoming Sr. WR 10th Beau Morgan Air Force Sr. QB This is nearly as bad a ripoff as giving the Best Picture Oscar to Ordinary People over Raging Bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 "Big Dancing Bears" I like that one, Rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Too bad none of us have really had a chance to see this kid in action. 659431[/snapback] Watchatalkingbout? I've seen him play for the past 3 years. This pointedly scathing report is so markedly different than so many others one must seriously ask themselves what the agenda of the writer was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nah, he just came back better.......as Michael Strahan. 659769[/snapback] The correct spelling of his name is "DEACON JONES." Sheesh, younglings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_House Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...alotingata.html Height: 6-4 1/8 | Weight: 338 | 40-Time: 5.12 Official Bio Strengths: Has outstanding size and a huge frame...Is an amazing athlete...Moves well and has excellent speed and quickness...Extremely strong and gets a great push...Can control the line of scrimmage...Can stuff the run and take on multiple blockers...Is not merely a space eater and can penetrate and rush the passer if given the opportunity...Plays with great leverage...Has the potential to be a dominant 3-4 nose tackle...A great kick blocker on special teams...Major upside. Weaknesses: Has an inconsistent motor and disappears for stretches...Needs to work on his technique and master the nuances of the position...Tore the ACL in his left knee and missed basically the entire 2003 season...Is not yet a finished product. Notes: Was a premier recruit coming out of high school...As the "Planet Theory" says there are only so many guys in the world with his blend of size, speed and athleticism...A rare prospect with the tools to be one of the best in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_House Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Scout.com Player Evaluation: NFL Draft Rankings (full list): Pos: DT Pos Rank: #1 STRENGTHS Explosion Size Strength AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT Techniques and Moves Powerful defensive lineman who occupy blockers and control the line of scrimmage. Has upside associated with improvement of technique at the pro level. Biography: Finished up his college career with a season that pushed him into the first round of the NFL draft. Consensus All-American following the a season where Ngata was a dominating force in the defensive line and registered 71 tackles, including tackles-for-losses in nine games during the season. Finalist for both the Outland and Nagurski trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_House Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootb...halotingata.htm Position: Defensive Tackle *Top Rated* School: Oregon Status: Junior Height: 6-5 Weight: 335 40-Yard Dash: 4.85 (EST) Positives: Haloti Ngata is a veritable mountain of a man in the middle of the defensive line, and has the strength to throw around guards when he's getting into the backfield. He also has great burst and agility to get through the line when brute force isn't enough. Ngata's coaches also call him among the most intelligent athletes they've ever seen, and he uses that intelligence to his full advantage, showing an ability to read play-action passes or where runs are going better than nearly anyone at his level of development, and better than many NFL linemen. Ngata also will refuse to give up on plays and doesn't take any off. He also has a rare ability among defensive linemen that he doesn't lose much from his play if he's on the field and hurting. Negatives: The only real negative about Ngata is that he tore an ACL in his sophomore year, which is always a concern for someone his age. However, he came back claiming that his damaged knee was stronger post-rehab than his healthy knee was, and no proof to the contrary has come out through his play. Overview: Haloti Ngata has been described as a quiet, but good-natured football player, which is never a bad thing to see. With his size and the tools he has, he will be a valuable pickup for any NFL franchise looking for a high-flight DT to add to their roster. Barring future complications from his previous knee surgery, he should be an NFL star for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Weaknesses: Has an inconsistent motor Well - there you have it - everyone knows inconsistent motors aren't going to cut it on our high motor lines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_House Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospe...loti_ngata.html Haloti Ngata DT 6’5 338 Oregon Jr. By: Robert Davis Haloti Ngata has always been one of the most imposing figures you’ll see on a football field. He was widely regarded as one of the top five players in the entire country coming out of high school. He gave glimpses of his talent as a freshman, but missed the entire following year due to a knee injury. Ngata didn’t regain his previous form until halfway through last year at Oregon. As a junior this past season, Ngata notched 61 tackles, nine for loss, and three sacks, despite constant double and triple teams. You cannot dream up a more physically gifted defensive tackle. Ngata is absolutely massive and is immovable from the interior line. He combines his bulk with amazing physical strength. Along with his great size and strength, he has impressive athleticism and agility. Moving up the field, he shows the ability to change direction well and has the closing speed to finish off plays. Oregon even drops him into coverage from his tackle spot. That is unheard of for a 340lber. He must be accounted for at all times. Teams routinely double and triple team him to neutralize his impact. Ngata has gotten a ton of hype because of his physical gifts, but he still needs some more consistency on the field. At times, he thinks his raw strength is enough to dominate, and that will not work at the next level. He injured his knee in 2003, and even though he appears to be back at full strength, it will be something that is looked into. On his talent alone, Ngata is going to be a high draft pick. Teams will drool over his physical ability in workouts. He is one of the elite defensive players in this draft, and could go in the Top eight of this years draft. EDIT:***OK that's enough, I just wanted to add some contrasting evaluations of Ngata, I knew he has SOME positives*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Well - there you have it - everyone knows inconsistent motors aren't going to cut it on our high motor lines... 659837[/snapback] I was thinking the same thing. He's not "white" either. Then again neither is Bunkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 So far, Ourlads’ has been steadfast in our belief that the Bills should take Haloti Ngata the DT from Oregon with the 8th pick. He would be an outstanding selection and he would fill a huge need fitting nicely into the spot vacated by Sam Adams. Don’t forget, they also lost Justin Bannan and Ron Edwards is still an un-signed UFA. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Watchatalkingbout? I've seen him play for the past 3 years. This pointedly scathing report is so markedly different than so many others one must seriously ask themselves what the agenda of the writer was. 659824[/snapback] One thing about that report though, which I don't think is just one writer's views, there have a lot of scouts at Ourlads. It gives detail and specifics, on how he actually plays. Most of the glowing reports talk in generalities about his physical gifts. Those two things can co-exist. Every great report says he's an amazing specimin and size and speed and burst and strength and potential and words like that. The Ourlads analysis is how they see him actually play. Granted, it's probably somewhere in the middle. But those Ourlads guys are not total morons, they have been doing this for 23 years or something and get paid by the NFL teams for their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_House Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 So far, Ourlads’ has been steadfast in our belief that the Bills should take Haloti Ngata the DT from Oregon with the 8th pick. He would be an outstanding selection and he would fill a huge need fitting nicely into the spot vacated by Sam Adams. Don’t forget, they also lost Justin Bannan and Ron Edwards is still an un-signed UFA. Huh? 659843[/snapback] But those Ourlads guys are not total morons, they have been doing this for 23 years or something and get paid by the NFL teams for their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 So far, Ourlads’ has been steadfast in our belief that the Bills should take Haloti Ngata the DT from Oregon with the 8th pick. He would be an outstanding selection and he would fill a huge need fitting nicely into the spot vacated by Sam Adams. Don’t forget, they also lost Justin Bannan and Ron Edwards is still an un-signed UFA. Huh? 659843[/snapback] They're just part of the master plan to get the Bills moved to LA. Didn't you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Sounds like the perfect Buffalo Bill to me. 659353[/snapback] Ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Where are the positives and overall comments? 659358[/snapback] True they did blast this kid pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 EDIT:***OK that's enough, I just wanted to add some contrasting evaluations of Ngata, I knew he has SOME positives*** 659841[/snapback] Thanks. I think your posted reports are much more balanced and accurate. He is a tremendous talent but he missed most of his soph. season with a blown knee and then decided to come out early on top of that. So, he's ubertalented but still has much work on his techniques, etc. That rings accurate and fair. The Ourlads piece doesn't add up. Ngata is quick enough off the ball to block extra points. I've seen him run down RBs in the open field all the way to the sidelines. How does anyone that's getting pancaked every play make 61 tackles? I've seen Ngata push double teams and collapse pockets with brute strength. I'm not going to say he's Bob Lilly in his prime or that the Bills have to draft him, but c'mon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 So then, can someone post what Ourlads has written about the other top players posters want to see the Bills draft - Davis, Huff, Bunkley, and Justice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 One thing about that report though, which I don't think is just one writer's views, there have a lot of scouts at Ourlads. It gives detail and specifics, on how he actually plays. Most of the glowing reports talk in generalities about his physical gifts. Those two things can co-exist. Every great report says he's an amazing specimin and size and speed and burst and strength and potential and words like that. The Ourlads analysis is how they see him actually play. Granted, it's probably somewhere in the middle. But those Ourlads guys are not total morons, they have been doing this for 23 years or something and get paid by the NFL teams for their work. 659847[/snapback] If this is a collection of comments from various sources, then I will blame the editor/editors that put them together. Those first two paragraphs posted were very negative and gave no indication at all of the player's upside. By my count there were 2 short sentences that might be taken as neutral to semi-positive, but even those were buttressed with lots of BUTs and ONLYs. If that is the entire piece, it clearly lacks any semblance of balance. I think there are several paragraphs of negativism that can be written about all players (yes, even "gods" like Leinart and Bush have risks and downsides) and not so naive to think otherwise. Still, nobody deserves a complete carpet bombing of their skills. To be in top-10 pick consideration, surely, a dram of common sense says the guy has something to offer, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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