plenzmd1 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Wasn't sure where to put this, either in the #firsters or Jets trading for Rivers threads, so in the grand tradition of stojan, i started a new thread!!!!! I have heard on the radio and have read that the Jets are way high on Cutler, however do not want to draft him at 4(i guess do to singing bonus etc), do not think anyone else will take him between 4 and 9,but that Detroit will take him at 9. So, they may be looking for a trading partner to get in front of the Lions. This from the daily news today: Tannenbaum, promoted Tuesday to replace Terry Bradway, faces daunting challenges. The Jets are $26 million over the projected cap ($92 million), and that doesn't include the $8 million it will cost to put the franchise tag on John Abraham. League insiders expect the Jets to tag Abraham and trade him before the draft. The Jets own the fourth pick, and while Bradway and former coach Herm Edwards were opposed to using the pick on a quarterback, Tannenbaum and Mangini might have a different view. There are major concerns about Chad Pennington, who is recovering from shoulder surgery and will be asked to take a pay cut, and the new regime might want to find a long-term answer. I have no idea how this deal could play out, and what it would be worth to move up the four spots. According to that value chart, the differance of the picks is roughly 400 pts, which is pretty close to two third rd picks. If its me, i keep the picks, and maybe the Jets take Cutler anyway at 4, and D-Brick still falls to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I vote that we do not trade up because there will be a quality impact player at #8. I also believe there will be an opportunity to trade down if we so choose. D'Brickashaw is most likely going to be an excellent NFL OT but there is still a gamble involved in drafting OL earlier. Hopefully we have learned that lesson already. That being said I hope we take him if by some miracle he is there at #8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If the Jets are 26M over the cap, with a costly qb with a bum shoulder, rb questions too, they are obviously in a bad situation. If they can con somebody into taking their #4 overall pick, they should thank their lucky stars and think about future years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfladave Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If the Jets are 26M over the cap, with a costly qb with a bum shoulder, rb questions too, they are obviously in a bad situation. If they can con somebody into taking their #4 overall pick, they should thank their lucky stars and think about future years. 599401[/snapback] I agree. The # 4 pick, as we all know, comes with risk and a huge salary. I think that we can get an impact player at the #8 pick. The only reason you move up into the top 5 picks is to get a franchise player. An OL is not a franchise player. Maybe I'm being a bit sour on picking an OT in the top 5 because of our recent experiences, BUT when I saw d'Brick play at the senior bowl I was TOTALLY unimpressed! I would personally rather see the Bills take one of the DL with the 8th pick. If one of the top DL is not available , trade down! I would much rather see the Bills primarily address the OL in FA. Pick up some OL in the 2-7th rounds but go DL in the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gap2gap Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 IMO- If we trade we trade back not forward. We are not one player away from being a SB team so why would we trade up to get just one player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 why would we trade up to get just one player? 599444[/snapback] Because D'Brickashaw would be a great name for one of Petrino's odes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 IMO- If we trade we trade back not forward. We are not one player away from being a SB team so why would we trade up to get just one player? 599444[/snapback] Would you trade for one player if that player was going to a stud LT for years to come? I would. I know, one can never know with these guys, but all indications are hes gunna be "da Man" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 IMO- If we trade we trade back not forward. We are not one player away from being a SB team so why would we trade up to get just one player? 599444[/snapback] Marv won't trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Being that the draft no matter how good of a crew of talent evaluators you have, still comes down to a crap shoot. i would rather have extra picks with a chance to make mistakes, or rather, find the best players by dumb luck. In our recent history, our best draft to date of teh TD era, was one in which we traded down. We picked up clements, schobel, and henry. those in which we traded up, have been relatively weak so far, ryan denney, and JP. I like having an extra roll of the dice in my arsenal, rather than the 1st turn to roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marck Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I have watched plenty of game day tape over the past two years and just can't get a real feel for Ferguson at the NFL level. I can't get over the nagging feeling that in reality he is nothing more then a John Fina clone. As the older members of the board remember, Fina was a late first round pick who had good mobility, could handle the quick defensive ends but had trouble getting push against the run and was dominated by the bigger defensive ends. Now with the swing in the NFL being more and more 3-4 defensive schemes, I have a grave fear that the day of quick offensive tackles will go bye the board as teams start using 285 to 300 lb defensive ends. Even if D'Brick falls to 8, let somebody else take this guy and trade down. The other concern with D'Brick is that he is light (295 lbs), slow (5.30 40 time), and has less then avarage strength (watch the number of 225 lb reps at the combine) In I doubt we'll see D'Brick at the combine other then for just a physical and the meetings with teams. If he participates he will be exposed as to what he really is, an average tackle at the NFL level, with no real significant upside due to physical limitations. In the AFC East, with 4 to 6 "bad weather games" per year, you need power run blocking and offensive line push. These are already defined issues with D'Brick. The Bills must use their top pick to shore up the run defense. Haloti Ngata is from a player projection, very much a Jamal Williams of San Diego. Now, please tell me if you are going to use the 8th pick in the draft, would you select John Fina or Jamal Williams. Myself, I want a quicker version of Jamal Williams to stuff the run and anchor the line for the next 8 to 10 years. In closing there are many offensive tackles in this draft and fewer quality defensive tackles, so that again really defines the choice the Bills need to make. As always, questions and comments. Wasn't sure where to put this, either in the #firsters or Jets trading for Rivers threads, so in the grand tradition of stojan, i started a new thread!!!!! I have heard on the radio and have read that the Jets are way high on Cutler, however do not want to draft him at 4(i guess do to singing bonus etc), do not think anyone else will take him between 4 and 9,but that Detroit will take him at 9. So, they may be looking for a trading partner to get in front of the Lions. This from the daily news today: Tannenbaum, promoted Tuesday to replace Terry Bradway, faces daunting challenges. The Jets are $26 million over the projected cap ($92 million), and that doesn't include the $8 million it will cost to put the franchise tag on John Abraham. League insiders expect the Jets to tag Abraham and trade him before the draft. The Jets own the fourth pick, and while Bradway and former coach Herm Edwards were opposed to using the pick on a quarterback, Tannenbaum and Mangini might have a different view. There are major concerns about Chad Pennington, who is recovering from shoulder surgery and will be asked to take a pay cut, and the new regime might want to find a long-term answer. I have no idea how this deal could play out, and what it would be worth to move up the four spots. According to that value chart, the differance of the picks is roughly 400 pts, which is pretty close to two third rd picks. If its me, i keep the picks, and maybe the Jets take Cutler anyway at 4, and D-Brick still falls to us. 599359[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gap2gap Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Would you trade for one player if that player was going to a stud LT for years to come? I would. I know, one can never know with these guys, but all indications are hes gunna be "da Man" 599458[/snapback] No! I would not because no matter how good he may be projected to be you need other players at other positions that are projected to be stars at their positions and you will lose out on picking those players. Example DT, S, WR ETC. Plus add to that - the kid might get hurt and never live up to his projection. Add to all of this a possible 3rd or 4th rounder that might be a better player. I never fall in love with just one player in a draft. There is too much talent in all the rounds to feel that just one player is what makes or breaks a draft. Remember Ricky Williams??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 No! I would not because no matter how good he may be projected to be you need other players at other positions that are projected to be stars at their positions and you will lose out on picking those players. Example DT, S, WR ETC. Plus add to that - the kid might get hurt and never live up to his projection. Add to all of this a possible 3rd or 4th rounder that might be a better player. I never fall in love with just one player in a draft. There is too much talent in all the rounds to feel that just one player is what makes or breaks a draft. Remember Ricky Williams??? 599473[/snapback] Yep, but thats a differant story. I'm saying give up two thirds , not the whole draft. Like I said, i know its somewhat of a crapshoot, but aren't LT's a little easier than say a QB to project a stud. I look at guys like Pace(a#1,#1) Boselli(#2,#1) and Jones(#6,#1) and think they are worth it. Now, I have absolutley NO clue if this guy is that good( ishould, UVA only 60 miles away)but if he is the stud that everyone says, I say line em up. I mean I can still see the Natrone Means running wild behind Boselli in Rich. Man took Bruce one on one and disrupted our entire D. So I do say one guy like that can make more of a differance than 2 or three average guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 might be a plan. I hate the idea of giving up picks, even third round picks, in this draft but the Brick might be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I have watched plenty of game day tape over the past two years and just can't get a real feel for Ferguson at the NFL level. I can't get over the nagging feeling that in reality he is nothing more then a John Fina clone. As the older members of the board remember, Fina was a late first round pick who had good mobility, could handle the quick defensive ends but had trouble getting push against the run and was dominated by the bigger defensive ends. Now with the swing in the NFL being more and more 3-4 defensive schemes, I have a grave fear that the day of quick offensive tackles will go bye the board as teams start using 285 to 300 lb defensive ends. Even if D'Brick falls to 8, let somebody else take this guy and trade down. The other concern with D'Brick is that he is light (295 lbs), slow (5.30 40 time), and has less then avarage strength (watch the number of 225 lb reps at the combine) In I doubt we'll see D'Brick at the combine other then for just a physical and the meetings with teams. If he participates he will be exposed as to what he really is, an average tackle at the NFL level, with no real significant upside due to physical limitations. In the AFC East, with 4 to 6 "bad weather games" per year, you need power run blocking and offensive line push. These are already defined issues with D'Brick. The Bills must use their top pick to shore up the run defense. Haloti Ngata is from a player projection, very much a Jamal Williams of San Diego. Now, please tell me if you are going to use the 8th pick in the draft, would you select John Fina or Jamal Williams. Myself, I want a quicker version of Jamal Williams to stuff the run and anchor the line for the next 8 to 10 years. In closing there are many offensive tackles in this draft and fewer quality defensive tackles, so that again really defines the choice the Bills need to make. As always, questions and comments. Fantastic post and I agree with every word. The question could end up being Ngata or Mario Williams, however. Then you really have a dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marck Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If that option comes up, you have the choice of a pass rusher who in conjunction with Schobel gives a great edge rush, but it stills leaves the hole in the middle. So, if I had the choice (which I don't think we will have), I would go with Ngata. Here is the best reason why as far as I am concerned. If teams can run and move the football on the ground, a pass rush is not really an effective weapon. However, if teams can't run and are in constant "down and distance" situations a pass rush can be generated from creative blitz packages and by having 4 quality corners where you can generate good coverage and get coverage sacks. In this draft, there are many good corners and edge rushers you can select who can contribute immediatly and our focus should be on ensuring the Bills shut down teams running games and force teams to throw against us. More turnovers are created from offensive passing plays then by the generation and receovery of fumbles on running plays. Teams with the highest number of takeaways are always those whose turnover's caused by fumbles afater sacks and ny interceptions. This is why you get the quality run stuffer over the edge pass rusher. Fantastic post and I agree with every word. The question could end up being Ngata or Mario Williams, however. Then you really have a dilemma. 599525[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Bills need to get OL help via Free Agency....Bills offense needs help right now...OL take time to develop...Bills have been down this road before...Bills have weapons on offense that are being underutilized in part to the OL play....now again, if the Bills upgrade the OL and still the Bills offense is weak, then we know with more certianity the skill players were vastly overrated. I would do what I could to get Mario Williams from NC State. He will be a difference maker as a pass rusher..Bills can get a DT in the later rounds or get a solid guy via FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Marv won't trade 599459[/snapback] Not ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turftoe Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If Cutler is as good as many people think, I wouldn't be surprised if Levy picked him. It all boils down to what management thinks about JPL. Personally, I'm not sold on Losman. Cutler is very talented but was the only shining star on a poor team. From what I read, he has a Jim Kelly like mentality. Maybe not quite as outspoken but mentally tough. He also has a very strong arm, a quick release, and is more mobile. On top of that, he is a northern boy, being from Wisconsin and Indiana. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like California surfer types just have a hard time fitting in in Buffalo, NY. There has been quite a bit of lamenting about missing out on Ben Roethlisburger 2 years ago. Maybe, just maybe, we will get a second chance to make things right. Most GMs want to put their stamp on their team. Donahoe basically totally turned over our roster. Levy may want to at least go forward with his top choice at QB. If we can help our offensive and defensive lines in free agency and in other rounds in the draft, then I wouldn't have a problem picking Cutler at #8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If Cutler is as good as many people think, I wouldn't be surprised if Levy picked him. It all boils down to what management thinks about JPL. Personally, I'm not sold on Losman. Cutler is very talented but was the only shining star on a poor team. From what I read, he has a Jim Kelly like mentality. Maybe not quite as outspoken but mentally tough. He also has a very strong arm, a quick release, and is more mobile. On top of that, he is a northern boy, being from Wisconsin and Indiana. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like California surfer types just have a hard time fitting in in Buffalo, NY. There has been quite a bit of lamenting about missing out on Ben Roethlisburger 2 years ago. Maybe, just maybe, we will get a second chance to make things right. Most GMs want to put their stamp on their team. Donahoe basically totally turned over our roster. Levy may want to at least go forward with his top choice at QB. If we can help our offensive and defensive lines in free agency and in other rounds in the draft, then I wouldn't have a problem picking Cutler at #8. 599702[/snapback] Well, I trust that Marv isn't a moron (we went to Harvard, after all ), so I'm not too worried that he'll take a QB with the #1 pick. I'm sure Marv doesn't give a rat's ass if JP is from California or that fans are upset we didn't get Big Ben. As for making "things right"...what the hell does than mean? And how does choosing Cutler make missing out on Ben any better? My guess is Marv knows that picking Cutler does NOTHING to help this team win next year and, probably, the year after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turftoe Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Well, I trust that Marv isn't a moron (we went to Harvard, after all ), so I'm not too worried that he'll take a QB with the #1 pick. I'm sure Marv doesn't give a rat's ass if JP is from California or that fans are upset we didn't get Big Ben. As for making "things right"...what the hell does than mean? And how does choosing Cutler make missing out on Ben any better? My guess is Marv knows that picking Cutler does NOTHING to help this team win next year and, probably, the year after that. 599708[/snapback] I suppose it made a lot of sense for Donahoe to pick Willis when we already had Travis and much more pressing needs. Marv knows the importance of the QB position. I'm not saying it is a sure thing he would take Cutler if available, I'm simply saying that many scouts feel Cutler is a hell of a QB. Our scouts (and Modrak) loved Willis enough to pick him bum knee and all even when our needs seemed greater at other spots. If our scouting department is really high on Cutler, and again, I really don't know if this is the case, it wouldn't surprise me to hear his name called at #8. In terms of Roethlisburger, some would say we should have tried harder to trade up to get him. If the bills feel good about JPL then this is a mute discussion. If they have major misgivings, then don't be surprised if they consider Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts