***PetrinoInAlbany*** Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Peter King reports today that Mexico City and Toronto will each bid strongly for an NFL regular season game to be played in their city in 2007. If Toronto wins, what NFL team is going to give up a home game to play in Toronto? Can you say the Bills??? Look for Bills-Jets to be in Toronto in 2007.... JDG 593839[/snapback] I wonder what the implications are for season ticket holders. The Bills are a regional team. A lot of the season-ticket base travels in for home games. I go 300 as it is, and now the Toronto thing would make it 410 ... to a HOME game. (*sigh*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I wonder what the implications are for season ticket holders. The Bills are a regional team. A lot of the season-ticket base travels in for home games. I go 300 as it is, and now the Toronto thing would make it 410 ... to a HOME game. (*sigh*) 594003[/snapback] You could take the fery from Rochester. Oh wait. Never mind. Myself, I would probably stay over, arrive Saturday, leave Monday, rather than trying to get there on game day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clumping platelets Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Bills home game in Toronto would be a slap in the face to Bills fans who have shown their support for their team IN BUFFALO. How about Jacksonville playing a "home" game in Toronto or Mexico City....they can't sell out their own home games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Unless Mexico does something quick and decisive relative to the illegal immigration issue along our borders, along with our own all talk but no action Congress, Senate, and President relative to this issue, I would place them in the same boat we hold Cuba in, and Cuba isn't even a speck of an issue compared to Mexico. Alas, big business would never stand for it, yet....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 I would not expect the Bills or any team that sells it's games out to play in Toronto. First of all the stadium only holds 50,000. RWS holds 72,000. So you would have to charge 70% more just to break even! Mexico City was a no-brainer. Two crap teams that don't draw flies at home cash in a big box office in a huge stadium filled to capacity. There is no big payoff playing in Canada. PTR 593993[/snapback] You're neglecting the fact that all the tickets in Mexico City were sold in pesos. The Cards might still have lost money even in a full Mexico City stadium. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 I wonder what the implications are for season ticket holders. The Bills are a regional team. A lot of the season-ticket base travels in for home games. I go 300 as it is, and now the Toronto thing would make it 410 ... to a HOME game. (*sigh*) 594003[/snapback] Such a game would almost certainly not be part of the season ticket package. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Thank God that Tagliaubue is talking about LA expansion rather than relocation. Let's hope it comes true. 593975[/snapback] Completely disagree. With a 16-game schedule, a 33rd team would completely destroy the already perilous competitive balance of the League. The real answer to the LA problem is that the Raiders simply aren't selling seats in Oakland, and there is absolutely no reason for the nation's #6 media market, which is only 1/3rd the size of the NYC media market to have two football teams. I know this is kind of gruesome, but once Al Davis dies, the NFL *needs* to move the Raiders back to LA. I just hope that Ralph outlives him. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 One Canadian guy argued with me recently that the only reason the NFL can justify keeping a team in Buffalo is it's proximity to the Toronto market. I told him that was laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorp15 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 The Bills need to increase their fan base in order to remain in Buffalo- Particularly if there is going to be a year without a salary cap. A permanent move to Toronto is unlikely since players would have to pay Canadian Income Tax. The increased revenue from merchandise, perhaps some luxury box sales in RWS and Canadian TV & Radio could help keep the Bills in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I doubt very much the Bills would ever give up a home date to play at the 53,506 seat Rogers Center. The Bills get to keep the suite revenue at RW and 60% of the bucks from the extra 20,000 seats at the Ralph (assuming they sell out). I could see the Raiders play there, however, as they've long been a favorite of Canadian fans when they've played in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 You're neglecting the fact that all the tickets in Mexico City were sold in pesos. The Cards might still have lost money even in a full Mexico City stadium. JDG 594074[/snapback] I'm not so sure they lost money. Those Mexico City tickets cost a fortune by local standards, and they filled a 105,000 seat stadium, pesos or not. Considering the Cards only sell 30,000 tickets to their home games, I think they made out just fine. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 I don't understand the discussion of the exchange rate (pesos or Canadian $). Won't the NFL just CHARGE MORE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 I don't understand the discussion of the exchange rate (pesos or Canadian $). Won't the NFL just CHARGE MORE? 594198[/snapback] Its not really possible because of differences in economics. Certainly not in Mexico. For example, the cheapest seats for a regular game in Estado Azteco typically go for about US$6. When NASCAR held their race in Mexico, they sold tickets for about US$17. I couldn't find the NFL's Mexico City ticket prices, but I can guarantee that they aren't going to charge US$53 like they do in the US. The Cardinals averaged 35,000 fans last season. Assuming an average ticket price slightly below the League average, say about $45, that brings in $1,575,000 in ticket revenue. To bring in the same revenue from 105,000 fans in Mexico City they would have to charge about US$15. Of course, that doesn't include parking, concession, and other revenues. So, I'd say that the Cardinals might have just broken even, or even suffered a small loss from the deal. As for Canada, the US$ is currently worth about 1.15 loonies. That means, to match revenues, you would have to raise every US$ price by 15% to get the same return in Canadian loonies. The Bills' average ticket price is about $40. That would mean that they would have to charge C$46 to get the same revenue. But, wait, Ralph Wilson Stadium is about 38% larger than the SkyDome. So, to get 38% more revenue from each ticket sold, the Bills would have to charge C$63.48. That's a steep price in Canada, already, and again, that's not including making up parking and concession revenues. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 My geuss is you'd be right. because it's so obvious and the thinkers in this business are few and far between, IMO. But, using a popular team from a nearby US city, is a double-edge sword, IMO. The pluses for using the Bills are obvious for the most part, and it's a fairly safe move. But, I'd be inclined to go the other way, here's why: I assume the game will be a sellout regardless. If the Bills play, you'll get many of the same Canadian Bills fans you get in Buffalo...you're not exposing more Canadians to the live NFL experience. (And, since you'll get plenty of people from the US going to the game, fewer Canadians will actually be there.) Many Canadians watch the Bills games already. Those Canadian Bills fans will still watch the Bills game. If you sceheduled another team (Seahawks, Steelers, Pats, Cowboys, Raiders) at a different time then the Bills game you'd up your viewership in Buffalo and Toronto and get the same big audience in the markets of the teams in the game. So, you'll expose more Canadians to the TV game and you'll get more US viewers, too. 593853[/snapback] i would go the other way then you dean..why not throw the loyal canadien fans a bone? it would probably be a very big deal for them.the bills players would probably be treated very well in their stay in canada.i think the bills should be upset if they are not the team picked to go up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 One Canadian guy argued with me recently that the only reason the NFL can justify keeping a team in Buffalo is it's proximity to the Toronto market. I told him that was laughable 594088[/snapback] Canadian fans are ultimately a small part of the Bills' fan base - which is predominantly the Buffalo-Rochester market. Do the Bills even have a TV contract for Canada? The combined Buffalo-Rochester media market would rank about #27. Right around Hartford and Raleigh-Durham. The real problem isn't that the current number is unsustainable, but that that number is declining every year. More importantly, the decision to move a franchise is generally ultimately the decision of the owner. The NFL isn't going to tell Ralph Wilson to move - but Ralph Wilson dies, it probably isn't going to stand in the way of a new owner who wants to move to LA or Portland. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Its not really possible because of differences in economics. Certainly not in Mexico. For example, the cheapest seats for a regular game in Estado Azteco typically go for about US$6. When NASCAR held their race in Mexico, they sold tickets for about US$17. I couldn't find the NFL's Mexico City ticket prices, but I can guarantee that they aren't going to charge US$53 like they do in the US. The Cardinals averaged 35,000 fans last season. Assuming an average ticket price slightly below the League average, say about $45, that brings in $1,575,000 in ticket revenue. To bring in the same revenue from 105,000 fans in Mexico City they would have to charge about US$15. Of course, that doesn't include parking, concession, and other revenues. So, I'd say that the Cardinals might have just broken even, or even suffered a small loss from the deal. As for Canada, the US$ is currently worth about 1.15 loonies. That means, to match revenues, you would have to raise every US$ price by 15% to get the same return in Canadian loonies. The Bills' average ticket price is about $40. That would mean that they would have to charge C$46 to get the same revenue. But, wait, Ralph Wilson Stadium is about 38% larger than the SkyDome. So, to get 38% more revenue from each ticket sold, the Bills would have to charge C$63.48. That's a steep price in Canada, already, and again, that's not including making up parking and concession revenues. JDG 594227[/snapback] Thanks. I really meant Canada...but, included both because...because...because I'm stoopid. I think Canada (Toronto, really, would still sellout with the price bump). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 i would go the other way then you dean..why not throw the loyal canadien fans a bone? it would probably be a very big deal for them.the bills players would probably be treated very well in their stay in canada.i think the bills should be upset if they are not the team picked to go up there. 594232[/snapback] I don't disagree, J-Buff. But it would be a bone, as you say. It would do little, IMO, to bring new awareness of the NFL to Canada. And, if I werea Bills season ticket holder, or Ralph Wilson, I'd be pissed if we gave up a home game to play in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 I don't disagree, J-Buff. But it would be a bone, as you say. It would do little, IMO, to bring new awareness of the NFL to Canada. And, if I werea Bills season ticket holder, or Ralph Wilson, I'd be pissed if we gave up a home game to play in Toronto. 594237[/snapback] Why? Pariticularly if it was a dog opponent on say the Sunday before Thankgiving? JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Why? Pariticularly if it was a dog opponent on say the Sunday before Thankgiving? JDG 594243[/snapback] Why what? I have different answers for different "why"s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Why what? I have different answers for different "why"s. 594245[/snapback] The "Why" was for your second point - why would Ralph Wilson be pissed if he were asked to move a home game to Toronto (Ralph surely would have the right to refuse, BTW)? And why would a season ticket holder feel stiffed about only having a 7-game package instead of an 8-game package? As for your first point - the next-most likely candidate for a team to move a home game to Toronto would be Jacksonville. Jacksonville is in the same time zone, has some difficulty selling out, etc. Somehow, though, I don't think that a Jacksonville home game in Toronto does much more for the NFL than a Buffalo home game. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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