PromoTheRobot Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Oh yes, the Bills really screwed the pooch dumping "the best GM in the NFL" and his fine young coaching protege? Give me a break! Mort, Gazoo, and the rest of Donahoe's buddies can take a flying leap! Just keep in mind where all the negative talk is coming from. TD still has a lot of friends in the media. And he is bitter enough to try and screw Wilson and the Bills if he can. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 TOTALLY Agree. Mort is a whiny B word... No surprise he broke this early and first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRM33064 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 TOTALLY Agree. Mort is a whiny B word... No surprise he broke this early and first. 564974[/snapback] Guys ..... I'm no big TD fan, but you're going to start to hear TD leak (what I believe to be) the truth. The truth is, TheMouthThatRoared (Williams) wasn't hired because of his great interview skills. Mularkey wasn't hired for his potential. Do you seriously think TD would pick these guys over Marvin Lewis, John Fox, Charlie Weis? Seriously? Ralph doesn't pay coaches. TD's hands were tied on payroll. Ralph DOES pay for players, but not for coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Guys ..... I'm no big TD fan, but you're going to start to hear TD leak (what I believe to be) the truth. The truth is, TheMouthThatRoared (Williams) wasn't hired because of his great interview skills. Mularkey wasn't hired for his potential. Do you seriously think TD would pick these guys over Marvin Lewis, John Fox, Charlie Weis? Seriously? Ralph doesn't pay coaches. TD's hands were tied on payroll. Ralph DOES pay for players, but not for coaches. 564979[/snapback] Ridiculous - A) How much was GW's contract in 2001? B) How much was Fox's first contract in 2001? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRM33064 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 BuffOrange ... I'll see if I can find the data. It's widely known in the league that Ralph will pay for players, but will not pay a premium for coaches. Ask Wade how much Ralph likes to pay out on contracts. MM wasn't retained (only to later quit) because he was a great coach - Ralph didn't want to pay the remaining contract years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Oh yes, the Bills really screwed the pooch dumping "the best GM in the NFL" and his fine young coaching protege? Give me a break! Mort, Gazoo, and the rest of Donahoe's buddies can take a flying leap! Just keep in mind where all the negative talk is coming from. TD still has a lot of friends in the media. And he is bitter enough to try and screw Wilson and the Bills if he can. PTR 564966[/snapback] Your headline implies the national media didn't like them before they were fired, but now are hypocritically changing their tune. That's not true. YOU didn't like them before the firing. The national media were never down on TD and MM the way the desperate local fans and guys like Jerry Sullivan were. We'll see who was right. I'm not optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 BuffOrange ... I'll see if I can find the data. It's widely known in the league that Ralph will pay for players, but will not pay a premium for coaches. Ask Wade how much Ralph likes to pay out on contracts. MM wasn't retained (only to later quit) because he was a great coach - Ralph didn't want to pay the remaining contract years. 564993[/snapback] I don't disagree that Ralph is cheap. It makes no sense since it's only 1 guy - the most important guy on the team among hundreds of other employees you pay. It's just that making his cheapness out to be the root of every decision is unfair and giving TD WAY too much credit. Five years ago Fox was not considered to be on an entirely different level than Williams. TD F'd up plain & simple, I don't understand why that's so inconceivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRM33064 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I don't disagree that Ralph is cheap. It makes no sense since it's only 1 guy - the most important guy on the team among hundreds of other employees you pay. It's just that making his cheapness out to be the root of every decision is unfair and giving TD WAY too much credit. Five years ago Fox was not considered to be on an entirely different level than Williams. TD F'd up plain & simple, I don't understand why that's so inconceivable. 565012[/snapback] Actually, I don't think Ralph is "cheap." But for Ralph's loyalty and patience, my old hometown of Buffalo wouldn't have an NFL team right now. I just think Ralph has an aversion to paying big coaching salaries. I don't think TD was an idiot (though he WAS undoubtedly a jerk), and I think the Williams hiring was a complete shocker - I don't think he was considered on the same level as Fox at the time, notwithstanding that they were both DCs I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Oh yes, the Bills really screwed the pooch dumping "the best GM in the NFL" and his fine young coaching protege? Give me a break! Mort, Gazoo, and the rest of Donahoe's buddies can take a flying leap! Just keep in mind where all the negative talk is coming from. TD still has a lot of friends in the media. And he is bitter enough to try and screw Wilson and the Bills if he can. PTR 564966[/snapback] It seems to reflect the flip floping that TSW goes through also. It seems everyone (Or close to it) wanted TD & MM gone no matter how it was done and now that it's done I see more and more posts on the horrible mistakes the Bills are making. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 It seems to reflect the flip floping that TSW goes through also. It seems everyone (Or close to it) wanted TD & MM gone no matter how it was done and now that it's done I see more and more posts on the horrible mistakes the Bills are making. Go figure. 565053[/snapback] I think it's the way it's shaking down and not what is happening that is disheartening. I didn't want TD gone just for the sake of firing him. I wanted him gone only if they hired a viable GM to replace him. IMO they didn't. With TD gone I thought they should have canned MM too, otherwise next year was pretty much a wasted season. If the team struggled Mularkey was likely gone (fairly or unfairly). Firing him at the same time as TD would have just cleaned the slate and allowed a fresh start. Now with Mularkey quitting a job he's likely never to get again, that doesn't speak well for the organization as a whole. It's embarrassing to think that a bad head coach who probably won't ever get another shot walks out the door instead of working with the current staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 If it is true that RW won't pay for assistant coaches we will probably be sunk. Read recently that Nick Saban has in effect broken the bank in hiring assistant coaches and that quality assistants will be hard to find (or keep!!) at existing price scales. The Miami standard will probably become the base in this season and RW will have to cough up as I don't think we are the most attractive franchise in the NFL right now. I suspect the talk about RW being cheap is probably over rated and he will cough up what we need...(God I HOPE that is true!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRM33064 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Tennesseeboy .... excellent point. I'm a Bills fan living down in Dolphins country, and the Dolphins have completely screwed up the market for assistant coach salaries. I thought Saban's salary itself was absurd, though perhaps he's proving me wrong. I'm extremely nervous that if the team doesn't sign Haslett (who is not my #1 choice either), we're going to get another training-wheels level HC. Haslett might not insist on breaking-the-bank because of his ties to Ralphie and the area, and his lackluster record last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Maybe this is the problem: It's not that Ralph is cheap, it's that other NFL teams have more revenue outside what is shared (NE, Wash, Dallas) to overpay coaches? Maybe Ralph won't pay more than what the Bills bring in? Just a thought. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Does anyone think that the reason Ralph doesn't pay high prices for caoches is because of the coaches they have chosen? Hear me out with this. Would you chose to pay GW or MM more than $1 mil. a year as an assistant making his head coaching debut? You don't pay someone with little experience top dollar before seeing what they can do. Also, maybe TD thinks the same way all of you on this board think. A coach was fired for a reason and that he sucks so I don't want him on my team so that is why they are not paying lots of money for a coach. Or maybe he was just trying to find that Diamond in the rough to make himself look more like a genius being able to find talent no one else did. Or maybe Ralph is cheap, who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yep, i've been saying the same thing. It seemed like everyone on this board wanted them gone. Now they're gone and it's like the whole world has gone to hell. I mean, gimme a break already?!? The team was 14-18 the last two years and you'd think we were 0-32 by the way people are acting!!!!! Jerry Sullivan has gotten so carried away that his journalism is bordering on irresponsible. No wonder people threaten the coaches after reading articles like his. In today's article he alludes to Ralph as the "Bills' incompetent, bumbling owner." I mean come on, that's ridiculous to say that about an owner with Ralph's credentials. I'm surprised editors allowed that to stay in. Marv is not a laughingstock around the league as Sullivan suggests. People (fans) have to chill out and let Marv work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRM33064 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I don't want to overstate it ... I don't think it's fair to call Ralph "cheap." I think he's only cheap vis-a-vis coach salaries - not on anything else. Ralph has demonstrated his willingness to pay top dollar for players, and has lost (via opportunity cost) countless millions by staying loyal to the people of Buffalo and passing up chances to move the team. Ralph just has a "thing" about paying management. He doesn't consider management "talent" worthy of top dollar. To some extent, it's like Denver with RBs. Denver will pay top dollar for its coaches, but believes that RBs are just not worth paying top dollar for. Different teams have different quirks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 The thing is, Ralph is 87 years old. He has seen how much the NFL is a coaches league. He wants a SB win more than anything in life. He'll pay for coaches, this time. Also, TD has conducted 3 coaching searches (including Cowher). In those searches, he has interviewed former HCs twice. Thats it. Only Jauron and Fassel were former HCs interviewed. Finally, in 2001, Fox was the 3rd best candidate behind Lewis and GW. GW actually had a higher national profile due to the success the Tenn D had with a young Kearse, the exciting SB against the Rams and the use of the 46 D. Fox was simply Giants DC, who coached the D in a suprise SB run. But they got trounced and he faded. So who's really at fault here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Ray Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yep, i've been saying the same thing. It seemed like everyone on this board wanted them gone. Now they're gone and it's like the whole world has gone to hell. I mean, gimme a break already?!? The team was 14-18 the last two years and you'd think we were 0-32 by the way people are acting!!!!! Jerry Sullivan has gotten so carried away that his journalism is bordering on irresponsible. No wonder people threaten the coaches after reading articles like his. In today's article he alludes to Ralph as the "Bills' incompetent, bumbling owner." I mean come on, that's ridiculous to say that about an owner with Ralph's credentials. I'm surprised editors allowed that to stay in. Marv is not a laughingstock around the league as Sullivan suggests. People (fans) have to chill out and let Marv work. 565121[/snapback] Ah, a sanity check. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Although the Williams hiring seemed to come out of leftfield back in 2001, it really shouldn't have. I think the fact that TD waited to interview Marvin Lewis after the Super Bowl and the fact that the two had a history dating back to their days in Pittsburgh, signalled to most observers that Lewis was going to get the job, much like everyone knew last year that Romeo was going to get the job in Cleveland. That's why the GW hiring seemed like such a shock. What everyone misses is that statistically speaking, GW's Titans actually had the #1 defense in the NFL that year. And the year before, GW had been coaching the Titans' defense in the Super Bowl. Thus, it is actually surprising that GW wasn't more sought after than he actually was. Suffice to say that at the time his credentials were at least on a par with those of Fox and Lewis. And with their interviews following the whirlwind of the Super Bowl understandably not going nearly as well as GW's, the GW hiring made sense. Thing about it: If you are an employer interviewing three equally qualified candidates for one job, you are going to hire the one that has the best interview. I've never understood folks for making fun of GW for "interviewing well". It's just another example of how something didn't work out. Based on the information that was at hand, TD felt that he made the best possible choice. He turned out to be incorrect. When things don't go right, there doesn't always have to be someone to "blame". Like I said, sometimes things just don't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRM33064 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 There is a whole other argument underlying this, which is, if Marv does his job and brings us a decent OL and DL, the new coach - whoever it is - will start looking a heck of a lot smarter. Sure, Belichick is (now) fairly recognized as a terrific coach. But on the other end of the spectrum, do any oldtime hockey fans here think that Glen Sather was the key to the Oilers in the 80s? Maybe it was Gretzky, Messier, Fuhr, Anderson, Kurri, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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