Interesting QB stats...

[Risin]

Here is a comparison, between the guy who gives us a better chance to win now, and a guy that is supposedly raw:

 

 

Holcomb: 8 starts 1509 yards 10 TD's 8 INT

 

Losman: 8 starts 1340 yards 8 TD's 8INT

 

 

 

After seeing that, I am more pissed that JP wasn't given the whole season to play. In his first real season of action, his stats are almost identical to a 10-year vets.

 

 

Throw in Holcomb's 5 lost fumbles, and add to the fact that JP had almost 150 rushing yards, and these two are equal. Only difference is JP should get better, while Kelly doesn't have the luxury of youth.

 

What a joke this organization is, including this moron head coach.

[Brandon]

Yeah, that pretty much sums up my thoughts on the issue. About the only thing that was really wrong with JP this year was that he had problems with accuracy, but even that substantially improved over the season, even if it doesn't show in the stats.

 

As I said when the switch was made, it would only be worth it if this team made the playoffs. As it turns out, JP won 2 games and Holcomb won 3. Oh, but at least it gave us the best chance to win.

[zonabb]

I agree more about the "best chance to win" BS and that JP and Holcomb were about the same. I think JP should have played as much as he could when healthy. He can't get better on the sidelines.

 

However, I can't see where his accuracy has improved. Since stats are a huge part of my job and education, I know they can tell any story you want them to. And the yards, TDs and INT stats make your point somewhat valid.

 

BUT, for the sake of stats......... JP had a 49.6% completion percentage compared to KH 67.4%. JP was sacked 26 times to KHs 17.

 

Again, JP has a long way to go in his development but he needs to be on the field.

[Risin]

I agree more about the "best chance to win" BS and that JP and Holcomb were about the same. I think JP should have played as much as he could when healthy. He can't get better on the sidelines.

 

However, I can't see where his accuracy has improved. Since stats are a huge part of my job and education, I know they can tell any story you want them to. And the yards, TDs and INT stats make your point somewhat valid.

 

BUT, for the sake of stats......... JP had a 49.6% completion percentage compared to KH 67.4%. JP was sacked 26 times to KHs 17.

 

Again, JP has a long way to go in his development but he needs to be on the field.

548543[/snapback]

 

 

How many failed third and fourth down conversions, helped build up KH's completion percentage?

 

How about red zone passes short of the goaline?

[Kelly the Dog]

I agree more about the "best chance to win" BS and that JP and Holcomb were about the same. I think JP should have played as much as he could when healthy. He can't get better on the sidelines.

 

However, I can't see where his accuracy has improved. Since stats are a huge part of my job and education, I know they can tell any story you want them to. And the yards, TDs and INT stats make your point somewhat valid.

 

BUT, for the sake of stats......... JP had a 49.6% completion percentage compared to KH 67.4%. JP was sacked 26 times to KHs 17.

 

Again, JP has a long way to go in his development but he needs to be on the field.

548543[/snapback]

If you counted all the plays on 3rd and long that JP threw past the first down marker trying to make a play or get a completion but we punted, and swapped them with all the dump down passes that KH threw in those same situations that resulted in automatic punts, too, those completion percentages would be much, much closer.

[SilverNRed]

If you counted all the plays on 3rd and long that JP threw past the first down marker trying to make a play or get a completion but we punted, and swapped them with all the dump down passes that KH threw in those same situations that resulted in automatic punts, too, those completion percentages would be much, much closer.

548553[/snapback]

Bingo.

[Alaska Darin]

I'm kinda glad they didn't leave Losman out there behind this line with the veteran "leadership" of Eric Moulds. We're walking a fine line on ruining the kid's confidence before he's ready to contribute.

[Brandon]

I agree more about the "best chance to win" BS and that JP and Holcomb were about the same. I think JP should have played as much as he could when healthy. He can't get better on the sidelines.

 

However, I can't see where his accuracy has improved. Since stats are a huge part of my job and education, I know they can tell any story you want them to. And the yards, TDs and INT stats make your point somewhat valid.

 

BUT, for the sake of stats......... JP had a 49.6% completion percentage compared to KH 67.4%. JP was sacked 26 times to KHs 17.

 

Again, JP has a long way to go in his development but he needs to be on the field.

548543[/snapback]

 

You are correct, it does not show up in the stats. But from watching his first four games compared to his last four, my eyes tell me he was throwing the ball much, much better later in the year. It did not show up in his completion percentage, and I think at least part of the reason is that he attempted more low percentage downfield passes than Holcomb.

[Risin]

I'm kinda glad they didn't leave Losman out there behind this line with the veteran "leadership" of Eric Moulds.  We're walking a fine line on ruining the kid's confidence before he's ready to contribute.

548580[/snapback]

 

 

I agree Darin, but the ironic thing to me was, the amount of time Holcomb had to throw these past two weeks.

 

I would have loved to see JP get that much time to throw.

[Alaska Darin]

I agree Darin,  but the ironic thing to me was,  the amount of time Holcomb had to throw these past two weeks.

 

I would have loved to see JP get that much time to throw.

548586[/snapback]

It's a cause/effect thing. Holcomb has shown the ability to read the blitz and get rid of the ball to the right guy most of the time. That slows down the pass rush. Rookies have to earn that and Losman simply hasn't done it often enough yet.

[Risin]

It's a cause/effect thing.  Holcomb has shown the ability to read the blitz and get rid of the ball to the right guy most of the time.  That slows down the pass rush.  Rookies have to earn that and Losman simply hasn't done it often enough yet.

548588[/snapback]

 

 

Yep, I see the connection.

[GG]

It's a cause/effect thing.  Holcomb has shown the ability to read the blitz and get rid of the ball to the right guy most of the time.  That slows down the pass rush.  Rookies have to earn that and Losman simply hasn't done it often enough yet.

548588[/snapback]

 

 

Shhh. They're on a roll.

[Fan in San Diego]

I agree. MM needs to go.

[Risin]

Shhh.  They're on a roll.

548615[/snapback]

 

 

If you read the entire thread, Darin was replying to a statement I made about time to throw.

 

It really had nothing to do with the thread premise, of a ten year vet being slightly better then a first year starter.

 

Feel free to add something intelligent next time.

[GG]

Feel free to add something intelligent next time.

548633[/snapback]

 

There is absolutely little intelligence that can be added this week, as the feedsing frenzy is at its peak.

 

As to Darin's response, it is indicative of people's tunnel vision of looking at 3 year end stats and trying to discern the difference between the two QBs. Hate to revert to the classic Greggo rant of "you only watch the game, you don't see the film," but when you just look at the stats of the two QBs, you're missing the total aspect of the differences between KH & JP.

 

No one ever wants to take into account that Bills play against other teams, and that those teams devise defenses based on who's at QB. The primary reason KH has more time is that the defenses are vastly different, because he is more adept at reading the defensive coverage and will likely burn an aggressive D. Opposing coordinators don't have that fear with JP, as he's been unable to look beyond his 2nd option yet.

 

KH does not have the same athletic skill that JP has, but is able to reasonably control the passing game. He does get in trouble when he's asked to throw the deep ball. That also includes throwing 15 yd strikes, which I understand are the hardest passes for QBs to make.

 

JP can make those throws with ease. But he can't, at this point, make the right decision on which pass to throw.

[Alaska Darin]

If you read the entire thread,  Darin was replying to a statement I made about time to throw.

 

It really had nothing to do with the thread premise,  of a ten year vet being slightly better then a first year starter.

 

Feel free to add something intelligent next time.

548633[/snapback]

GG is one of the best posters on this site.

[Risin]

There is absolutely little intelligence that can be added this week, as the feedsing frenzy is at its peak.

 

As to Darin's response, it is indicative of people's tunnel vision of looking at 3 year end stats and trying to discern the difference between the two QBs.  Hate to revert to the classic Greggo rant of "you only watch the game, you don't see the film," but when you just look at the stats of the two QBs, you're missing the total aspect of the differences between KH & JP.

 

No one ever wants to take into account that Bills play against other teams, and that those teams devise defenses based on who's at QB.  The primary reason KH has more time is that the defenses are vastly different, because he is more adept at reading the defensive coverage and will likely burn an aggressive D.  Opposing coordinators don't have that fear with JP, as he's been unable to look beyond his 2nd option yet.

 

KH does not have the same athletic skill that JP has, but is able to reasonably control the passing game.  He does get in trouble when he's asked to throw the deep ball.  That also includes throwing 15 yd strikes, which I understand are the hardest passes for QBs to make. 

 

JP can make those throws with ease.  But he can't, at this point, make the right decision on which pass to throw.

548662[/snapback]

 

 

Great post, and I totally agree.

 

My way of thinking is, JP needs to play so he can "make the right decision on which pass to throw."

 

Thanks for taking the time to write that. It gives me a better perspective, on things I'm missing.

[Kelly the Dog]

JP can make those throws with ease.  But he can't, at this point, make the right decision on which pass to throw.

548662[/snapback]

Which is only gained by game experience. Which KH couldn't do after 8 games in the league either. The point of the thread still rings true, and it was a simple concept but at least not one beaten to death already. Stats at the end of the season.

 

KH has all the experience and is able to get the ball out of his hands and to the right receiver (ALLEGEDLY, I would argue it's not to the right receiver half the time), and yet KH still cannot put up better numbers than a neophyte. Hence, he shouldn't be playing.

[Risin]

GG is one of the best posters on this site.

548664[/snapback]

 

 

I agree.

 

Which is why I was disappointed he didn't add a little something.

[zow2]

No one ever wants to take into account that Bills play against other teams, and that those teams devise defenses based on who's at QB.  The primary reason KH has more time is that the defenses are vastly different, because he is more adept at reading the defensive coverage and will likely burn an aggressive D.  Opposing coordinators don't have that fear with JP, as he's been unable to look beyond his 2nd option yet.

 

KH does not have the same athletic skill that JP has, but is able to reasonably control the passing game.  He does get in trouble when he's asked to throw the deep ball.  That also includes throwing 15 yd strikes, which I understand are the hardest passes for QBs to make. 

 

JP can make those throws with ease.  But he can't, at this point, make the right decision on which pass to throw.

548662[/snapback]

 

Wow, bravo...someone actually has some football knowledge here. Good post. I'm not a big fan of JP at this point nor Holcomb. But in addition to the other points comparing the two, I'd like to see what their 3rd down conversion rate was while each was behind center? I'm sure Holcomb's was a good bit better even though he throws short of the 1st down marker. I've always said, the two most important things that separate NFL winners from losers are lack of turnovers and 3rd down conversion success rate. When you have a QB that excels at those two, you have a great one.