R. Rich Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 A change in ownership/management philosophy. I want this team to be as concerned about correcting the problems on the field (such as the OL, pass rush, and now the run defense) as they are about selling the luxury boxes and season tickets. That philosophy doesn't necessarily mean I want a change in ownership or management (personnel). I just want these guys to take care of the problems on the field, and to do so in a very proactive manner. No more bargain basement finds, please, and no more late round gems, as our scouting department has seemingly missed the mark lately more than they've been on target. Now, either way, I'll still be supporting the Bills, as I'd like to belive I'm a good fan even to a fault @ times. I'll still renew my season tickets (unless there's a good reason I cannot attend games next year......a REAL good reason!!) and cheer the Bills on. I just really want to see a situation where the team knows what the problem is and aggressively attempts to correct it. I must admit, I'm not very optimistic that this will happen. Today's "press conference" is another example of the Bills thumbing their nose @ the very people who pay good money to support them. The whole clandestine, "it's none of your business" approach is a bit over the top. They don't have to put remote cameras in the board room, but it would be nice to just give people a general idea of what's going on instead of proceeding as if it were a matter of national security. I don't need the specifics; I just want to know things are under control. Right now, I don't get the sense that they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Very nice Rich. Now put it on paper and mail it to Ralph Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 We are rapidly becoming the new Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 We are rapidly becoming the new Bengals. 524172[/snapback] Becoming? I think we've arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***PetrinoInAlbany*** Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 A change in ownership/management philosophy. I want this team to be as concerned about correcting the problems on the field (such as the OL, pass rush, and now the run defense) as they are about selling the luxury boxes and season tickets. That philosophy doesn't necessarily mean I want a change in ownership or management (personnel). I just want these guys to take care of the problems on the field, and to do so in a very proactive manner. No more bargain basement finds, please, and no more late round gems, as our scouting department has seemingly missed the mark lately more than they've been on target. Now, either way, I'll still be supporting the Bills, as I'd like to belive I'm a good fan even to a fault @ times. I'll still renew my season tickets (unless there's a good reason I cannot attend games next year......a REAL good reason!!) and cheer the Bills on. I just really want to see a situation where the team knows what the problem is and aggressively attempts to correct it. I must admit, I'm not very optimistic that this will happen. Today's "press conference" is another example of the Bills thumbing their nose @ the very people who pay good money to support them. The whole clandestine, "it's none of your business" approach is a bit over the top. They don't have to put remote cameras in the board room, but it would be nice to just give people a general idea of what's going on instead of proceeding as if it were a matter of national security. I don't need the specifics; I just want to know things are under control. Right now, I don't get the sense that they are. 524165[/snapback] Excellent post! I'd add this suggestion ... Maybe occasionally hire people with a strong Western New York connection. Strive to hire people with connections to the area and the team, not exclusively hiring people who see the job as a stepping stone to a GM job or HC job somewhere else. Like you, I am going to renew my tix (always do, first row seats & don't want to give them up a year before we find the next Kelly/Reed/Thomas combo...) and like you, I care. But the fans in buffalo are among the most informed in the league, and when the organization spouts crap, we all get a little annoyed. GREAT post, man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 A change in ownership/management philosophy. I want this team to be as concerned about correcting the problems on the field (such as the OL, pass rush, and now the run defense) as they are about selling the luxury boxes and season tickets. That philosophy doesn't necessarily mean I want a change in ownership or management (personnel). I just want these guys to take care of the problems on the field, and to do so in a very proactive manner. No more bargain basement finds, please, and no more late round gems, as our scouting department has seemingly missed the mark lately more than they've been on target. Now, either way, I'll still be supporting the Bills, as I'd like to belive I'm a good fan even to a fault @ times. I'll still renew my season tickets (unless there's a good reason I cannot attend games next year......a REAL good reason!!) and cheer the Bills on. I just really want to see a situation where the team knows what the problem is and aggressively attempts to correct it. I must admit, I'm not very optimistic that this will happen. Today's "press conference" is another example of the Bills thumbing their nose @ the very people who pay good money to support them. The whole clandestine, "it's none of your business" approach is a bit over the top. They don't have to put remote cameras in the board room, but it would be nice to just give people a general idea of what's going on instead of proceeding as if it were a matter of national security. I don't need the specifics; I just want to know things are under control. Right now, I don't get the sense that they are. 524165[/snapback] What leads you to believe that the ownership is more concerned about selling boxes and tickets than improving the on-field product? What leads you to believe that the management is more more concerned about selling boxes and tickets than improving the on-field product? I don't think the problem is concern, I think the problem is bad decisions....... JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 A change in ownership/management philosophy. That philosophy doesn't necessarily mean I want a change in ownership or management (personnel). I just want these guys to take care of the problems on the field, and to do so in a very proactive manner. No more bargain basement finds, please, and no more late round gems, as our scouting department has seemingly missed the mark lately more than they've been on target. 524165[/snapback] RRich, heres my biggest critism of TD. We all heard that TD came here and cleared away this really bad cap situation. So, he sold on the fact we wre gunna rebuild, and rebuild the right way so as to maintain cap flexability. Okay, I'm in. We just had a great TEN year run, I'll live with two or three years to rebuild and get our "cap" house in order. FF to this year. We gotta convert EM salary to bonus money to get cap room.We gotta restructure Mike Williams to get cap room, again moving salry into bonus. We cannot pay Phat Pat or JJ, no cap room(granted maybe other teams overpaid) but thats a differant discussion. We cant sign top FAs cause we AIN"T got any room under the cap. Thats why your getting Bargain Basement players, its all we can AFFORD under the cap. So, long and short of it. I bought his rebuilding line, but 5 years in we are certainly no better than the team of Wades last year, and as far as I can tell, we are STILL no better off cap wise. Yes, i think its time to address the needs on the field, but with new management. Not sure about coaches yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 We cant sign top FAs cause we AIN"T got any room under the cap. Thats why your getting Bargain Basement players, its all we can AFFORD under the cap.So, long and short of it. I bought his rebuilding line, but 5 years in we are certainly no better than the team of Wades last year, and as far as I can tell, we are STILL no better off cap wise. Yes, i think its time to address the needs on the field, but with new management. Not sure about coaches yet 524183[/snapback] O.k., I don't get how you, and so many other people on TBD can say that "we are STILL no better off cap wise." The Bills are currently projected to be $8mil under the cap, and that is before releasing Mike Williams or letting anyone else go, and before restructing anybody. Secondly, Donahoe has done nothing if not sign premiere free agents. In 2001, even in our "cap hell" year, he signed Larry Centers. O.k., nothing to get excited about. In 2002 he signed London Fletcher, Chidi Ahanatou, Trey Teague, and Mike Hollis. In 2003 he signed a tagged Takeo Spikes, Jeff Posey (first day signing), Sam Adams, Rian Lindell, Olandis Gary, Bobby Shaw, and Lawyer Milloy - a massive FA haul by any NFL team's standards. In 2004 he signed Chris Vilarrial and Troy Vincent - a solid FA haul. In 2005 he signed Mike Gandy and Kelly Holcomb. The Bills have been free agent players in each of the last four years, and arguably the top FA player in the whole darn League in 2003. Moreover, just look at our history of "compensatory" draft picks for the last four years compared to those of the rest of the NFL to really tell the tale of the tape on our net-play in free agency. So, in short, I don't think that your above criticism adds up. The Bills have been a player for top-line free agents under Donahoe, and he has continued to keep our cap situation under control. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 We are rapidly becoming the new Bengals. 524172[/snapback] No. At least not in terms of fan support and loyalty. The B'gals have a nice spurt recently, but for years - here - one never saw even a hint of orange or black anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Funny, I always thought building a championship caliber team put fannies in the seats ? Guess I was wrong ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 A change in ownership/management philosophy. 524165[/snapback] Or maybe a change of fandom and media would be as effective. The media add nothing anymore and fandom spins out of control every day. Pretty soon they will be lighting torches and carrying pitchforks. You have fans and media who complain about plays being predictable ("my 7 year old daughter can figure out what play they are going to run") and then complain that they did not do the play they predicted. They (the cult of Losman) complain that they are not lettting the extremely raw rookie QB start and then complain about not winning with rookie who makes Todd Collins look like a fast reactor. I want this team to be as concerned about correcting the problems on the field (such as the OL, pass rush, and now the run defense) as they are about selling the luxury boxes and season tickets. I agree about this - sales are most important to Bills and they need to understand tha t performance will affect sales no matter how many tricks they use. That philosophy doesn't necessarily mean I want a change in ownership or management (personnel). I just want these guys to take care of the problems on the field, and to do so in a very proactive manner. No more bargain basement finds, please, and no more late round gems, as our scouting department has seemingly missed the mark lately more than they've been on target. Aside from DBs yes oh and Wonderkid TE/QB/ST player they need to improve their scouts but who wants to scout for a GM who may be fired (maybe literally by a mob with torches) any day now? Now, either way, I'll still be supporting the Bills, as I'd like to belive I'm a good fan even to a fault @ times. I'll still renew my season tickets (unless there's a good reason I cannot attend games next year......a REAL good reason!!) Stop typing and start working on reason! and cheer the Bills on. I just really want to see a situation where the team knows what the problem is and aggressively attempts to correct it. I must admit, I'm not very optimistic that this will happen. Today's "press conference" is another example of the Bills thumbing their nose @ the very people who pay good money to support them. The whole clandestine, "it's none of your business" approach is a bit over the top. They don't have to put remote cameras in the board room, but it would be nice to just give people a general idea of what's going on instead of proceeding as if it were a matter of national security. I don't need the specifics; I just want to know things are under control. Right now, I don't get the sense that they are. 524165[/snapback] Well that is almost always how it is. If you are outside you want more info and if you hear about inside info it gives you something else to complain about. Support those who you feel need support even if the lemming mob doesn't agree with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 God Bless you R. Rich. I owe you a plate or two if we ever meet up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 I don't need the specifics; I just want to know things are under control. Right now, I don't get the sense that they are. 524165[/snapback] You know, despite all of his faulty decision making, I think TD did have this organization "under control", until the last week or two, when it became very apparent that his future in Buffalo was in doubt...once the person in charge is deemed a "lame duck" the lunatics are much more likely to take over they asylum....RW gave MM a vote of confidence last week, but not TD. Whether he had intended to fire TD at the end of the season, or not, RW is a little responsible for this most recent headache...when players start to get the feeling that the GM is going to get the ax, they seem to feel entitled to question everything... I am certainly not a TD apologist (and I think he pretty much has to get the ax at this point), but I think it is a little unfair to say that he wasn't aggressive in addressing team problems. I think it is more than fair to question the results, but not his effort. I know all about the perceived lack of attention to the O-line, but I honestly think TD thought he had addressed the issue. He got a bunch of journeymen OL, for the most part, and then went out and hired a guy who was widely regarded as one of the very best OL coaches in the game. He thought, as he did with previous teams, McNally could "coach them up". It just didn't work. If things were not so ugly in "fandom" right now, I would be all for giving TD another year, to address the line issues, through FA. However, with this fire burning out of control, there is no way RW can bring him back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflo83 Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 O.k., I don't get how you, and so many other people on TBD can say that "we are STILL no better off cap wise." The Bills are currently projected to be $8mil under the cap, and that is before releasing Mike Williams or letting anyone else go, and before restructing anybody. Secondly, Donahoe has done nothing if not sign premiere free agents. In 2001, even in our "cap hell" year, he signed Larry Centers. O.k., nothing to get excited about. In 2002 he signed London Fletcher, Chidi Ahanatou, Trey Teague, and Mike Hollis. In 2003 he signed a tagged Takeo Spikes, Jeff Posey (first day signing), Sam Adams, Rian Lindell, Olandis Gary, Bobby Shaw, and Lawyer Milloy - a massive FA haul by any NFL team's standards. In 2004 he signed Chris Vilarrial and Troy Vincent - a solid FA haul. In 2005 he signed Mike Gandy and Kelly Holcomb. The Bills have been free agent players in each of the last four years, and arguably the top FA player in the whole darn League in 2003. Moreover, just look at our history of "compensatory" draft picks for the last four years compared to those of the rest of the NFL to really tell the tale of the tape on our net-play in free agency. So, in short, I don't think that your above criticism adds up. The Bills have been a player for top-line free agents under Donahoe, and he has continued to keep our cap situation under control. JDG 524215[/snapback] I agree that the Bills have been a player in free agency but I think that "premiere" free agents is a bit of a stretch. I would rate them as follows: Top shelf signings (2): Takeo Spikes (one of the best FA signings ever but the fans could have told TD that - remember the Takeo chants at the last home game against the Bengals the season before?), London Fletcher (excellent signing - quality player) Solid players (4): Larry Centers (one of the few bright spots in 2001), Mike Hollis(only one year in Buffalo - let him walk so we could overpay Rian Lindell), Sam Adams (good signing - gave us our bookend to go with Big Pat), Chris Villarial (quietly solid) Average players (5): Jeff Posey (signing him minutes after free agency began always reminded me of how Leon Hess was so excited when Rich Kotite became available after the Eagles fired him - I never understood that sense of urgency. He was previously succesful in a 3-4 which the Bills didn't run anymore and he has been very average in his tenure here), Rian Lindell (overpaid and average), Lawyer Milloy (good player on the down side - Bellicheck is right most of the time w/regards to players) , Troy Vincent (see Lawyer Milloy) , Mike Gandy (could become a solid player if there are better players around him on the line) Journeymen at best (4): Chidi Ahanatu (sucked - didn't even want to live in Buffalo), Trey Teague (for the life of me I will never understand a team's desire to have a player switch positions - in this case from LT to C, a position he hadn't played since college and one where he has been disappointing at best), Bobby Shaw (did anyone miss him after he was cut mid season?), Kelly Holcomb (everyone loves the backup but there's a reason he's a backup - he's the second coming of Alex Van Pelt) Bust (1): Olandis Gary (blink and you missed him) Four other free agents spring to mind: Bennie Anderson in 2005 (a complete, utter bust - TD's worst FA signing) and Sam Gash in 2003 (a fan friendly signing but a player who was completely underutilized in the Bill's offensive scheme and who was released after one year). And then there was always Eddie Robinson and Billy Jenkins in 2002 (garbage and more garbage). Add my four additions to the bust list and the overall quality average of TD's free agent signings takes a dip to a majority of average and below average players. Now before I am branded as a TD basher I will make the following points: 1. free agency is a crapshoot. 2. Football is the ultimate team game and there are many reasons why a player can be succesful in one system will not succeed in another system. That being said, TD has not properly addressed the offensive line line thru free agency. What this team needs is a true leader on the o-line. A free agent signing of the quality of a Kevin Mawae, a Steve Hutchinson, a Marco Rivera - a leader who will make the players around him better. In Buffalo perspective, a Kent Hull type player. Pinning his hopes onto that #4 RT pick in the 2002 draft has failed miserably and his forays into o-line FA have produced some ok players and some crap players but none that have stepped up to be the linchpin of the most important component that Buffalo has been missing for the last ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 peace on earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 I agree that the Bills have been a player in free agency but I think that "premiere" free agents is a bit of a stretch. But this is all 20/20 hindsight. At the time, Donahoe was landing some of the top FA's available - whether they panned out or not. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***PetrinoInAlbany*** Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 My problem with Donahoe is this... In five years, we haven't improved. We haven't even built a core for this team. Maybe it's too simplistic, but I can't help remembering what NFL GM's and analysts were saying after the Cowboys went from 1-15 to Champs in two seasons. They were saying that the league has changed, and that - with the era of free agency and player movement - you could build a team in 2-3 years. A championship contending team. Jesus, how frustrating is it when we realize that NEXT year is now a "rebuilding" year?! Think about that for a second ... after all we've been through, all the high picks traded for "the next" QB ... the 6-10 season ... six years without a whiff of a playoff game ... after all that, we stink THIS year and we're rebuilding NEXT year. He's had five years. I don't see what he's built or what he's done to make it better. I know this sounds very negative, but I'm fed up with Donahoe as GM. Leadership starts at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 O.k., I don't get how you, and so many other people on TBD can say that "we are STILL no better off cap wise." The Bills are currently projected to be $8mil under the cap, and that is before releasing Mike Williams or letting anyone else go, and before restructing anybody. Secondly, Donahoe has done nothing if not sign premiere free agents. In 2001, even in our "cap hell" year, he signed Larry Centers. O.k., nothing to get excited about. In 2002 he signed London Fletcher, Chidi Ahanatou, Trey Teague, and Mike Hollis. In 2003 he signed a tagged Takeo Spikes, Jeff Posey (first day signing), Sam Adams, Rian Lindell, Olandis Gary, Bobby Shaw, and Lawyer Milloy - a massive FA haul by any NFL team's standards. In 2004 he signed Chris Vilarrial and Troy Vincent - a solid FA haul. In 2005 he signed Mike Gandy and Kelly Holcomb. The Bills have been free agent players in each of the last four years, and arguably the top FA player in the whole darn League in 2003. Moreover, just look at our history of "compensatory" draft picks for the last four years compared to those of the rest of the NFL to really tell the tale of the tape on our net-play in free agency. So, in short, I don't think that your above criticism adds up. The Bills have been a player for top-line free agents under Donahoe, and he has continued to keep our cap situation under control. JDG 524215[/snapback] How come we still suck then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 O.k., I don't get how you, and so many other people on TBD can say that "we are STILL no better off cap wise." The Bills are currently projected to be $8mil under the cap, and that is before releasing Mike Williams or letting anyone else go, and before restructing anybody. Secondly, Donahoe has done nothing if not sign premiere free agents. In 2001, even in our "cap hell" year, he signed Larry Centers. O.k., nothing to get excited about. In 2002 he signed London Fletcher, Chidi Ahanatou, Trey Teague, and Mike Hollis. In 2003 he signed a tagged Takeo Spikes, Jeff Posey (first day signing), Sam Adams, Rian Lindell, Olandis Gary, Bobby Shaw, and Lawyer Milloy - a massive FA haul by any NFL team's standards. In 2004 he signed Chris Vilarrial and Troy Vincent - a solid FA haul. In 2005 he signed Mike Gandy and Kelly Holcomb. The Bills have been free agent players in each of the last four years, and arguably the top FA player in the whole darn League in 2003. Moreover, just look at our history of "compensatory" draft picks for the last four years compared to those of the rest of the NFL to really tell the tale of the tape on our net-play in free agency. So, in short, I don't think that your above criticism adds up. The Bills have been a player for top-line free agents under Donahoe, and he has continued to keep our cap situation under control. JDG 524215[/snapback] 2005 was not a good free agent year by any stretch of the imagination. Gandy and Holcomb are marginal NFL starters AT BEST. 2002 wasn't very good either. Fletcher was the only decent pickup in that short list of names you provided. I'm willing to cut TD some slack here, though, because of the residual Butler cap hits forced onto that offseason. 2004 was also below average. Villarial and Vincent are already showing their age, and thus were overpaid. I only agree with you on the 2003 offseason. That was TD's one year during his Reign of Terror in which we were major free agent players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 My problem with Donahoe is this... In five years, we haven't improved. We haven't even built a core for this team. 524659[/snapback] Does Losman-McGahee- Evans-Parrish and possibly Everett not count as a "core"? JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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