Orton's Arm Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 Since Holcomb's Arm has begged off, allow me to step in with an analysis of 1st-day OL picks for 2002-2004. 518056[/snapback] An excellent post. Thanks for doing this work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 An excellent post. Thanks for doing this work. 518069[/snapback] Which further proved you're a whiny crybaby with no point to prove other than to cry. Thanks for including Denver's pick of George Foster at #20, to back your point, when Bills didn't pick until #23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Which further proved you're a whiny crybaby with no point to prove other than to cry. Thanks for including Denver's pick of George Foster at #20, to back your point, when Bills didn't pick until #23. 518071[/snapback] Bah, facts schmacts...all they do is get in the way of a good rant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 I should have been more clear and said he has chosen to bolster the line with guys he considered to be more proven, reliable and NFL-tested FA's. Just last year he attempted to fill the starting left OG spot with a guy who couldn't make Baltimore's final roster. Expectations for the guys TD has brought in have generally been low; and their actual performances even worse. Maybe we don't care much for how those guys have worked out, but TD has attempted to improve this line by acquiring players in FA like Vilarial, Teague, Gandy, Anderson, Campbell and Price. Let's look at this a little more closely. Villarrial I'll accept. But Gandy only came here to replace the more expensive Jennings. I'm not saying TD should have matched San Francisco's outlandish offer to Jennings. Instead, TD should have solved the problem in advance by signing Jennings to a longer-term deal. Campbell is a TE, and Price was signed for depth. And all of those guys were a bigger financial investment than most our rookie draft choices. That's because under the collective bargaining agreement, a veteran has to be paid more than what a lower round draft pick is typically going to make. Your lower round draft picks--assuming they make the team--are going to save you money on the salary cap somewhere or another. he has shown a propensity toward favoritism of his OLine unit by stocking it with guys who are generally higher paid and more NFL proven than untested draft picks; except of course when he used the highest draft pick of his career on an OLineman. 518061[/snapback] At the time MW was drafted, I liked the fact that a commitment was being shown to building the offensive line. Too bad there haven't been any additional first day OL picks under TD. As for showing favoritism: you show favoritism to a unit when you sign a free agent like Takeo Spikes or even London Fletcher. There's no way any of TD's OL FA signings even come close to Takeo's level, and other than Villarrial they don't come close to Fletcher's level either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 Which further proved you're a whiny crybaby with no point to prove other than to cry. You bring up an excellent point. Me saying thank you to someone for an excellent post proves beyond a doubt that I'm a whiny crybaby. This particular piece of insight is the crown jewel of the fine logic and insight you've been displaying throughout this thread. Thanks for including Denver's pick of George Foster at #20, to back your point, when Bills didn't pick until #23.518071[/snapback] You're welcome. But New England picked at #13 that year, using the pick we traded them for Drew Bledsoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Just last year he attempted to fill the starting left OG spot with a guy who couldn't make Baltimore's final roster. A guy who'd been the starter on one of the league's better OLines for the last 4 years couldn't make their roster? I'm not saying TD should have matched San Francisco's outlandish offer to Jennings. Instead, TD should have solved the problem in advance by signing Jennings to a longer-term deal. Campbell is a TE, and Price was signed for depth. Yeah I really miss Jennings 2 games played this year. An extension for a guy who was always hurt would have been a great idea. And contrary to popular belief, TE's are OLinemen. And Price was signed to play football, which he did very well when given the opportunity. Too bad there haven't been any additional first day OL picks under TD. Well you've listed a bunch of 3rdround picks in your list, which was when Jennigns was picked. So the Bills have at least 2 "Day 1" picks on the OLine in TD's tenure; co-incidentally this is the same number of "Day 1" picks as those otehr teams you listed because you admired them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 As for showing favoritism: you show favoritism to a unit when you sign a free agent like Takeo Spikes or even London Fletcher. There's no way any of TD's OL FA signings even come close to Takeo's level, and other than Villarrial they don't come close to Fletcher's level either. 518076[/snapback] Keep crying in your soup. In the meantime, here's your next homework assignment, compare the number on All-Pro caliber LBs on the FA market every year to the number of All-Pro caliber OLs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 You're welcome. But New England picked at #13 that year, using the pick we traded them for Drew Bledsoe. 518081[/snapback] Great point. Why didn't Donahoe select Kenyatta Walker, instead of trading down for Nate Clements? He's truly the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 A guy who'd been the starter on one of the league's better OLines for the last 4 years couldn't make their roster? I don't even remember the guy's name. He's no longer with the team, having been beaten out by Ross Tucker. Yeah I really miss Jennings 2 games played this year. An extension for a guy who was always hurt would have been a great idea. Well, either TD expected Jennings to be a constant injury case, or he didn't. If this was the expectation, Jennings shouldn't have been drafted in the first place. If TD didn't think Jennings would constantly be hurt, TD shouldn't have let him go four and out. Well you've listed a bunch of 3rdround picks in your list, which was when Jennigns was picked. So the Bills have at least 2 "Day 1" picks on the OLine in TD's tenure. The Bills have exactly two Day 1 picks in TD's tenure. There have been none since 2002, which is what I was getting at earlier. ; co-incidentally this is the same number of "Day 1" picks as those otehr teams you listed because you admired them. I didn't look at what those teams did in 2005. Also, the guys chosen in 2001 that I mentioned are still with their teams; unlike TD's 2001 OL pick. The other guys I mentioned weren't busts, unlike Mike Williams. Also, some of these teams have good offensive linemen obtained before 2001. Buffalo isn't in that situation, so TD should have been using extra first-day picks to catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 Keep crying in your soup. Interesting how anyone who disagrees with your ill-founded views is somehow guilty of crying in his soup. In the meantime, here's your next homework assignment, compare the number on All-Pro caliber LBs on the FA market every year to the number of All-Pro caliber OLs. Thanks for reinforcing my point: you're supposed to build an offensive line through the draft, not through free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I don't even remember the guy's name. He's no longer with the team, having been beaten out by Ross Tucker. 518093[/snapback] Lawrence Smith blew out his knee this pre-season, he's still around. And let's not get carried away with the Ravens having "one of the league's better OLines for the last 4 years"... any success they had was in spite of Fat Bennie's atrocious play there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 Great point. Why didn't Donahoe select Kenyatta Walker, instead of trading down for Nate Clements? He's truly the 518087[/snapback] This is relevant . . . how? Did I say everything TD did was dumb? No. On occassion, TD does something good, like the 2001 draft. Unfortunately, he followed it up with the disaster that was the 2002 draft, and then the Bledsoe trade. Bill Walsh once said that Steve DeBerg is good enough to get you beat. The same could be said about TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Interesting how anyone disagrees with your ill-founded views is somehow guilty of crying in his soup. Not anyone, just you. Thanks for reinforcing my point: you're supposed to build an offensive line through the draft, not through free agency. 518095[/snapback] Now I know how your reading comprension teacher feels. Try reading JDG's post. I mean reading its full contents, the ones that show that 1st day OLs are just as likely to be busts as they are starters. Now back to your regularly scheduled rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 2, 2005 Author Share Posted December 2, 2005 Not anyone, just you. Yeah, I'm sure you've never used the argumentum ad hominum technique on anyone else. Now I know how your reading comprension teacher feels. Inferior? Try reading JDG's post. Considering that I complimented the post, you should be at least dimly aware that I might have already read it. I mean reading its full contents, the ones that show that 1st day OLs are just as likely to be busts as they are starters. It's not clear where you're going with this. No matter what round you choose a player in, or what position he plays, there's a strong chance he will be a bust. That probability increases during the later rounds of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 This thread reminded me how much I think we miss Marcus Price. He always stepped into any hole on the line and did it w/o much of a drop-off...and in some cases played better than the guy he replaced. I'm not sure why we let him go as depth is so very important on the OL...but, I noticed he has yet to play a game for the Cowboys (per NFL.com). Is he out for the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 This thread reminded me how much I think we miss Marcus Price. He always stepped into any hole on the line and did it w/o much of a drop-off...and in some cases played better than the guy he replaced. 518125[/snapback] Did you see his play last year? There was a dramatic drop-off in his play on the field. You could say it was very Jermanesque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Did you see his play last year? There was a dramatic drop-off in his play on the field. You could say it was very Jermanesque. 518128[/snapback] Jermanesque? That's throwing some serious stones, GG. I guess I can't remember his play last year...I drink, ya know. I sat next to his girlfriend on a plane to Chicago once and we talked about his chance of returning to the Bills. She was pretty worried that his days in Buffalo were done. I shouldda asked her for some game-tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 ...I drink, ya know. 518133[/snapback] That does ring a bell. I just don't remember whose round is next.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Just last year he attempted to fill the starting left OG spot with a guy who couldn't make Baltimore's final roster.518076[/snapback] Lawrence Smith was signed to challenge M. Price for the back-up LT spot. After seeing Smith practice, McNally switched him to LG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 This thread reminded me how much I think we miss Marcus Price. He always stepped into any hole on the line and did it w/o much of a drop-off...and in some cases played better than the guy he replaced. I'm not sure why we let him go as depth is so very important on the OL...but, I noticed he has yet to play a game for the Cowboys (per NFL.com). Is he out for the year? 518125[/snapback] Jeff Morrison reported last year that Price has a degenerative knee condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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