cale Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The thing that strikes me about our present front office team is that TD seems to not know a football player. At least John Butler and AJ Smith seem to have had a clue. Enough of JB leaving us in cap hell. In today's NFL, with the exception of New England and Pittsburgh, every team faces it, just a question of when. JB had one lousy draft and an umanageable cap but it may also have been a f*** you to Ralphie, or there might have been meddling by the venerable owner. But on balance, I rather have JB/AJ/Dwight Adams running my player acquisition than the stooges we've got now. Although, I'd like to see what Modrak would do without TD around... Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The thing that strikes me about our present front office team is that TD seems to not know a football player. At least John Butler and AJ Smith seem to have had a clue. Enough of JB leaving us in cap hell. In today's NFL, with the exception of New England and Pittsburgh, every team faces it, just a question of when. JB had one lousy draft and an umanageable cap but it may also have been a f*** you to Ralphie, or there might have been meddling by the venerable owner. But on balance, I rather have JB/AJ/Dwight Adams running my player acquisition than the stooges we've got now. Although, I'd like to see what Modrak would do without TD around... Charles 508612[/snapback] Their teams did make it to the playoffs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The thing that strikes me about our present front office team is that TD seems to not know a football player. At least John Butler and AJ Smith seem to have had a clue. Enough of JB leaving us in cap hell. In today's NFL, with the exception of New England and Pittsburgh, every team faces it, just a question of when. JB had one lousy draft and an umanageable cap but it may also have been a f*** you to Ralphie, or there might have been meddling by the venerable owner. But on balance, I rather have JB/AJ/Dwight Adams running my player acquisition than the stooges we've got now. Although, I'd like to see what Modrak would do without TD around... Charles 508612[/snapback] Charles, while you are reminscing about the good old days, perhaps you could scan our drafts from 1993 to 2000 and list those top players that came in and reloaded our empty gun from the early 90's. Try and at least pick guys who have made it to a pro bowl or two. Then, list the starting o-lineman from the last few years of the Butler era. Don't forget to include such guys as Corbin Lacina, Jamie Nails, Corey Louchiey.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Butler maliciously left us in salary cap hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Charles, while you are reminscing about the good old days, perhaps you could scan our drafts from 1993 to 2000 and list those top players that came in and reloaded our empty gun from the early 90's. Try and at least pick guys who have made it to a pro bowl or two. Then, list the starting o-lineman from the last few years of the Butler era. Don't forget to include such guys as Corbin Lacina, Jamie Nails, Corey Louchiey.... 508694[/snapback] You hit the nail on the head Scott. As much heat as TD gets (rightfully so imo) for the Mike Williams bust, it was NOT TD who traded the 9th pick of a draft AND a 4th for Rob Johnson. In retrospect, I hate to say this but Flutie was probably the primary reason (offensively) that the Bills were able to make the playoffs at all. He had the ability to escape from the constant pressure. In this sense, I think that only Michael Vick could win for the Bills. He could run his way out of trouble and mask our biggest problem. It IS a sad situation. Do you think that TD deserves another year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven in MD Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Charles, while you are reminscing about the good old days, perhaps you could scan our drafts from 1993 to 2000 and list those top players that came in and reloaded our empty gun from the early 90's. Try and at least pick guys who have made it to a pro bowl or two. Then, list the starting o-lineman from the last few years of the Butler era. Don't forget to include such guys as Corbin Lacina, Jamie Nails, Corey Louchiey.... 508694[/snapback] Though they might not have been pro bowl quality (none of the Pats O-line go either), players like Brown and Fina were serviceable players who helped the Bills remain respectable and in the playoffs till TD took over. There is no way around it, TD has been here for 5 years and this team is no closer to the playoffs than they were in year 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Though they might not have been pro bowl quality (none of the Pats O-line go either), players like Brown and Fina were serviceable players who helped the Bills remain respectable and in the playoffs till TD took over. There is no way around it, TD has been here for 5 years and this team is no closer to the playoffs than they were in year 1. 508712[/snapback] John Fina was drafted in 1992 BY POLIAN to play guard. He was never drafted to play tackle - particularly left tackle. That was a "Butler move". Butler's big claim to fame for our o-line was to pour $6M down the Ruben Brown rat hole. Because that is how you build o-lines. You pay LT money to LG's and you take OG's and put them at LT and then you fill in with bums the rest of the way... Save your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 John Fina was drafted in 1992 BY POLIAN to play guard. He was never drafted to play tackle - particularly left tackle. That was a "Butler move". Butler's big claim to fame for our o-line was to pour $6M down the Ruben Brown rat hole. Because that is how you build o-lines. You pay LT money to LG's and you take OG's and put them at LT and then you fill in with bums the rest of the way... Save your breath. 508748[/snapback] Nice recap!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 John Fina was drafted in 1992 BY POLIAN to play guard. He was never drafted to play tackle - particularly left tackle. That was a "Butler move". Butler's big claim to fame for our o-line was to pour $6M down the Ruben Brown rat hole. Because that is how you build o-lines. You pay LT money to LG's and you take OG's and put them at LT and then you fill in with bums the rest of the way... Save your breath. 508748[/snapback] Dont forget a nice big deal for Holocek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-dog Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 And you pay left tackle money to a right tackle who can't play, that you move to guard and hold your beath he might be able to play there. You sign backups from other teams as free agents and you start them on your team. Of course they were backups for a reason and they come here and prove it all over again. Neither JB nor TD knows how to build a line. Damn I miss Polian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Dont forget a nice big deal for Holocek. 508766[/snapback] He also made a multi-millionaire out of a finished Henry Jones, and gave Sam Rogers 4 years/12 million as I recall. It cost the Bills almost 11 million in dead cap space to dump Fina and Ostroski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Butler's big claim to fame for our o-line was to pour $6M down the Ruben Brown rat hole. Because that is how you build o-lines. You pay LT money to LG's and you take OG's and put them at LT and then you fill in with bums the rest of the way... 508748[/snapback] No difference if TD extends MW next year... other than a lot more $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 No difference if TD extends MW next year... other than a lot more $$$. 508785[/snapback] That is my point. Our OL woes do not date back to the signing of TD. It has been this way since Will Wolford left for Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 With all the mistakes Butler made while here, and all the success San Diego has had recently, it looks like A.J. Smith is a far better GM than either TD or Butler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 With all the mistakes Butler made while here, and all the success San Diego has had recently, it looks like A.J. Smith is a far better GM than either TD or Butler. 508799[/snapback] Perhaps you could discuss the 2004 draft? San Diego drafts Eli Manning and trades that for QB Philip Rivers. Drew Brees is the starting QB though.... your turn.... finish the train of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Perhaps you could discuss the 2004 draft? San Diego drafts Eli Manning and trades that for QB Philip Rivers. Drew Brees is the starting QB though.... your turn.... finish the train of thought. 508807[/snapback] New York paid a king's ransom to get Eli Manning. It turns out Manning was worth even more than what NY gave up to get him. So now San Diego has a ton of picks from trading away Manning, and the opportunity to get even more picks by trading away Rivers. Plus they have a bona fide QB in Brees. I'll take that QB situation over what TD has done with QB here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 New York paid a king's ransom to get Eli Manning. It turns out Manning was worth even more than what NY gave up to get him. So now San Diego has a ton of picks from trading away Manning, and the opportunity to get even more picks by trading away Rivers. Plus they have a bona fide QB in Brees. I'll take that QB situation over what TD has done with QB here. 508820[/snapback] So this was planned? SD never wanted Manning. They didn't even want Rivers. They are just acquiring players they don't want in order to trade them for players they do want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Perhaps you could discuss the 2004 draft? San Diego drafts Eli Manning and trades that for QB Philip Rivers. Drew Brees is the starting QB though.... your turn.... finish the train of thought. 508807[/snapback] We trade a 1st and 2 2nds for Losman, and Kelly Holcomb is our starter. Did Butler see your sister in the shower or something? We at least lost playoff games on the last play on the road 2 of his last 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Charles, while you are reminscing about the good old days, perhaps you could scan our drafts from 1993 to 2000 and list those top players that came in and reloaded our empty gun from the early 90's. Try and at least pick guys who have made it to a pro bowl or two. Then, list the starting o-lineman from the last few years of the Butler era. Don't forget to include such guys as Corbin Lacina, Jamie Nails, Corey Louchiey.... 508694[/snapback] 1999 1 1 23 23 Antoine Winfield DB Ohio State 2 2 22 53 Peerless Price WR Tennessee 3 3 25 86 Shawn Bryson RB Tennessee 4 4 24 119 Keith Newman LB North Carolina 5 4 27 122 Bobby Collins TE North Alabama 6 5 23 156 Jay Foreman LB Nebraska 7 6 15 184 Rashard Cook DB USC 8 6 25 194 Armon Hatcher DB Oregon State 9 7 24 230 Sheldon Jackson TE Nebraska 10 7 42 248 Bryce Fisher DE Air Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 So this was planned? SD never wanted Manning. They didn't even want Rivers. They are just acquiring players they don't want in order to trade them for players they do want? 508825[/snapback] they're 20-8 since rivers joined the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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