Kelly the Dog Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Not quite sure what Billschitt is, but it doesn't sound good. They made the move because KH gives us the best chance to win...period...bottom line...I don't think coaches would put their careers and reputations on the line to go with a team that they feel doesn't give them the best chance to win!!! Now that's bullsqwitch or whatever the heck you call it..... 474031[/snapback] The point was, they thought that Holcomb gave them the best chance to win in game one, too. And in game two, also. And in game three. And in game four. Yet they played JP. So what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 The point was, they thought that Holcomb gave them the best chance to win in game one, too. And in game two, also. And in game three. And in game four. Yet they played JP. So what's your point? 474037[/snapback] I don't buy that....How can you go into a game knowing that your not giving your team the best chance to win? I would say that this coaching staff is arrogant and they think they can do anything with anyone. But i gaurantee you if they thought they had a better chance to win with KH, he would have been in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Probably not. We will collectively run him out of town as Atlanta did Favre. JP will go to Green Bay, get mentored by red-shorts himself and give them a franchise QB for the next 10 years. That would be my bet. 473803[/snapback] Atlanta never ran Favre out of town. He spent his rookie season there on the bench and got traded to Green Bay in the off season. That year, he made the ProBowl. It was his second year in the league. Not a good comparison considering JP in his second year he has effectively dumped in his drawers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I don't buy that....How can you go into a game knowing that your not giving your team the best chance to win? I would say that this coaching staff is arrogant and they think they can do anything with anyone. But i gaurantee you if they thought they had a better chance to win with KH, he would have been in there. 474052[/snapback] Seriously? That is saying that you truly believe Tom Clements and Mike Mularkey and Tom Donohoe actually thought in their heart of hearts that JP Losman, without ever starting a game, was a better quarterback, had a better control of the team, and had a better chance of playing well and leading the team to the win against Houston than Kelly Holcomb. You truly believe that? I think that's insane. Especially considering that all they wanted out of their quarterback play was managing a game and letting the running game and defense and special teams do their stuff. And they believed raw gunslinger JP could do that in his first start ever better than a conservative nine year vet known for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Atlanta never ran Favre out of town. He spent his rookie season there on the bench and got traded to Green Bay in the off season. That year, he made the ProBowl. It was his second year in the league. Not a good comparison considering JP in his second year he has effectively dumped in his drawers. 474055[/snapback] Green Bay started that season 2-5 and scored 90 points in those seven games, an average of 12.9. The Bills were 1-3 with JP and averaged 12. Next? http://profootballreference.com/teams/gnb1992.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Especially considering that all they wanted out of their quarterback play was managing a game and letting the running game and defense and special teams do their stuff. And they believed raw gunslinger JP could do that in his first start ever better than a conservative nine year vet known for that? 474065[/snapback] Exactly....The coaching staff, the OL and D let us down BIG TIME during the losing stretch..... This D has come up good against Pedestrian QBs...and come up SHORT against the likes of Vick and Brooks.... The coaching staff really need to take most of the blame for this disaster....benching JP only hides their deficiences.... For example playing at Tampa, where you are in a rowdy environment playing against a solid defense....the coaching staff can't put the onus on a rookie QB...rather they should have been patient with Mcgahee running the ball, and keeping the game close and get the D to spark... Instead the D lets a rookie RB run all over them for 168 yards..... Someone posted on another thread a telling statistics....We are 26th in the league in allowing other teams to covert on 3rd downs......I wouldn't put the blame of the D being on the field for too long on the offense for that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Green Bay started that season 2-5 and scored 90 points in those seven games, an average of 12.9. The Bills were 1-3 with JP and averaged 12. Next? http://profootballreference.com/teams/gnb1992.htm 474076[/snapback] Favre didn't start until week 4. Next? The point is JP is behind were he should be if you want to compare him to other succesful QBs who rode the pine in their first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Favre didn't start until week 4. Next? 474097[/snapback] Even if that is true Favre's first four starts would see the Packers put up 17, 10, 6, 10. That's 10.75 ppg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Seriously? That is saying that you truly believe Tom Clements and Mike Mularkey and Tom Donohoe actually thought in their heart of hearts that JP Losman, without ever starting a game, was a better quarterback, had a better control of the team, and had a better chance of playing well and leading the team to the win against Houston than Kelly Holcomb. You truly believe that? I think that's insane. Especially considering that all they wanted out of their quarterback play was managing a game and letting the running game and defense and special teams do their stuff. And they believed raw gunslinger JP could do that in his first start ever better than a conservative nine year vet known for that? 474065[/snapback] Seriously, i think their arrogants got the best of them. In their mind there was no differense between JP and KH, they could just manage a game and skate to victory with "the best defense ever." Now that the D has been knocked down a few notches and JP isn't efficient, they have to go with a QB that can put more points on the board. Hence, the switch..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Favre didn't start until week 4. Next? The point is JP is behind were he should be if you want to compare him to other succesful QBs who rode the pine in their first season. 474097[/snapback] Oh, he didn't start until week four? So he missed the good games when they scored some points. His first four games they were 1-3 and they scored 43 total points, so he actually put up less than JP and not more. Next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Atlanta never ran Favre out of town. He spent his rookie season there on the bench and got traded to Green Bay in the off season. 474055[/snapback] So there was no widespread boards and places for fans to express themselves to call it 'running him out of town'. But fact is they thought he was a punk and would never take the NFL seriously. If we let KH play out the rest of this season, it will be no different than Favre with Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Last point on this topic....The Bills staff felt that JP could manage a game the same way the KH did this past week. KH was a modest 20-26 for 126, not staggering numbers. But that's what the staff expected from JP!!! But come to find out that JP isn't as accurate at this point of his career, so let's put KH in there and show JP how to manage a game. I don't know how Ganie and Kelly & dog can even argue this point, it's a fact. The staff may not have felt they had a better chance of winning with JP to start the season, but I am sure they at least thought JP could manage a game as efficient as KH. And there you have it, another debate ended with a buzzer beating win..................later..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Last point on this topic....The Bills staff felt that JP could manage a game the same way the KH did this past week. KH was a modest 20-26 for 126, not staggering numbers. But that's what the staff expected from JP!!! But come to find out that JP isn't as accurate at this point of his career, so let's put KH in there and show JP how to manage a game. I don't know how Ganie and Kelly & dog can even argue this point, it's a fact. The staff may not have felt they had a better chance of winning with JP to start the season, but I am sure they at least thought JP could manage a game as efficient as KH. And there you have it, another debate ended with a buzzer beating win..................later..... 474834[/snapback] It helps when your running back gets the ball 31 times...even when he ran for only 86 yards...My problem is not with KH....it is with the coaching staff. They did not stick to the game plan of letting JP manage the game...Rather they ended up calling plays asking JP to make plays, which he did not.... To make it worse, the Defense stunk it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Last point on this topic....The Bills staff felt that JP could manage a game the same way the KH did this past week. KH was a modest 20-26 for 126, not staggering numbers. But that's what the staff expected from JP!!! But come to find out that JP isn't as accurate at this point of his career, so let's put KH in there and show JP how to manage a game. I don't know how Ganie and Kelly & dog can even argue this point, it's a fact. The staff may not have felt they had a better chance of winning with JP to start the season, but I am sure they at least thought JP could manage a game as efficient as KH. And there you have it, another debate ended with a buzzer beating win..................later..... 474834[/snapback] But you said they thought JP was already as good as KH and could manage the game better. Gave them a better chance to win the game than KH. That is what we were arguing about. Which they don't, btw, and you even finally acknowledged. Of course they thought JP could manage the game like KH did, but then unfortunately didn't call the game and plays like they wanted him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 It helps when your running back gets the ball 31 times...even when he ranfor only 86 yards...My problem is not with KH....it is with the coaching staff. They did not stick to the game plan of letting JP manage the game...Rather they ended up calling plays asking JP to make plays, which he did not.... To make it worse, the Defense stunk it up... 474858[/snapback] And this theory assumes that the Bills play against phantom defenses that don't spend an entire week charting the opponents' weaknesses. Don't you think that other teams know what the Bills would like to do with Willis and having a very raw QB behind center? Do folks ever stop to think why perhaps Willis averaged 2.6 ypr on only 13 carries against Tampa, who has one of the better defenses & coordinators in the league? Is it all our offensive playcalling? You could have stuck to the "run Willis" blueprint and likely would have gotten 6 more carries out of him for an additional 20 yards, and a host of complaints on why didn't Clements pass the ball more with a QB that lit up Houston. Why are people ignoring the Atlanta game, where Willis ran wild, but the offense was still anemic? Could it be that whoever you have at QB still needs to make the key passing plays to move the offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 But you said they thought JP was already as good as KH and could manage the game better. Gave them a better chance to win the game than KH. That is what we were arguing about. Which they don't, btw, and you even finally acknowledged. Of course they thought JP could manage the game like KH did, but then unfortunately didn't call the game and plays like they wanted him to. 474916[/snapback] Ok, final last reply.....I said that the coaching staff though that JP could manage a game as good as or better that KH. And add JP's running skills to the equation and they did think JP gave the Bills a better chance of winning. I am not reneging on my original statement.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Why are people ignoring the Atlanta game, where Willis ran wild, but the offense was still anemic? Could it be that whoever you have at QB still needs to make the key passing plays to move the offense? 474937[/snapback] We are not...In fact that was an issue with the Atlanta game too....Willis was running well....so why did they stop him in the 4th qtr....they did not run him enough in the 4th qtr... Plus, the biggest problem in the Atlanta game or the NO game was more the defense COULDN"T get off the field on 3rd and LONGs........ As I said JP needed to manage a game where the running game and the STs and Defense made the plays.....Not vice versa.... One of the telling stat last year in the steelers run with Big Ben as the QB was he hardly threw for 20+ times in nay game and they ran the ball somehting like 63% of the time.....and the defense came to play in every single game.... Unfortunatley, our Defense or Offensive play calling has a lot to be left desired. Add to it, poor WR play my Eric Moulds the #1 WR of the team.... As I said JP did not play really well...but the difference in his play and KH is not that far off to make the switch....especially considering the long run..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 BTW 7 catches for FIFTY NINE yards by your #1 WR does not provide a strong endorsement for your starting QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 We are not...In fact that was an issue with the Atlanta game too....Willis wasrunning well....so why did they stop him in the 4th qtr....they did not run him enough in the 4th qtr... Plus, the biggest problem in the Atlanta game or the NO game was more the defense COULDN"T get off the field on 3rd and LONGs........ As I said JP needed to manage a game where the running game and the STs and Defense made the plays.....Not vice versa.... One of the telling stat last year in the steelers run with Big Ben as the QB was he hardly threw for 20+ times in nay game and they ran the ball somehting like 63% of the time.....and the defense came to play in every single game.... Unfortunatley, our Defense or Offensive play calling has a lot to be left desired. Add to it, poor WR play my Eric Moulds the #1 WR of the team.... As I said JP did not play really well...but the difference in his play and KH is not that far off to make the switch....especially considering the long run..... 474980[/snapback] I agree with your point on the coaching, it has been horrible to this point. I am scratching my head every other play!! For example, against the texans willis busts back to back 10+ yard runs and the next plays a double reverse....against the Aint's Willis busts a 25 yard run and the next plays a faile flee-flicker....the paly calling and coaching leave little to be desired. But i don't know how you can blame Moulds for anything, you can see from last week that this guy is an under used and underappreciated weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Oh, he didn't start until week four? So he missed the good games when they scored some points. His first four games they were 1-3 and they scored 43 total points, so he actually put up less than JP and not more. Next. 474250[/snapback] I don't care how many points he put up. The point was the players believed in him and he never dumped his pants on the field. He made the Probowl his first year as a starter. He didn't need an entire season to figure it out. Comparing Favre to Losman is a joke at best. Move on Champ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts