LOST 02.02 Discussion Thread

[PTS]

Bastards! The one thing I wanted to know and now I have to wait!

 

Did everyone notice the logo from the hatch on the Sharks tailfin?

 

The best part of the episode was the last 10 minutes.

 

My blog is done for this episode. There were again many things that might not have been seen unless you watched it twice, or three times and with freeze framing at times! Damn, I'm nuts for this show. Click on the link in my sig.

[Ramius]

my post about what the numbers in the computer do...

 

they reset some sort of timer...my forst thought was that since desmond is so afraid of the "illness" that it might be a self destruct counter...if it isnt reset, then the apartment destroys itself (possibly to protect and hide whats going inside the hatch...

[Ramius]

Bastards! The one thing I wanted to know and now I have to wait!

 

I'll do my blog after Invasion. There really wasn't much to this episode. Did everyone notice the logo from the hatch on the Sharks tailfin?

458366[/snapback]

 

Great catch, i didnt see it...any ideas on what the logo is yet...they deliberately kept it blurry on the cannisters when kate was in the food storage room...

[PTS]

my post about what the numbers in the computer do...

 

they reset some sort of timer...my forst thought was that since desmond is so afraid of the "illness" that it might be a self destruct counter...if it isnt reset, then the apartment destroys itself (possibly to protect and hide whats going inside the hatch...

458370[/snapback]

Hmmm ... interesting thought and that makes sense. My guess is when all is figured out, the castaways will join with Desmond against the others.

[duey]

I like the theory on the timer reset relating to the place destroying itself. The thinking is that if everyone is dead, the no one could reset the timer and BOOM!

 

Looks like next week we get to meet all sorts of new folks!

[UConn James]

I didn't notice the logo on the shark. Is that serious? What does that logo say? I could make out 'CH...' but I don't have the greatest of reception. A line of thought on what Desmond is doing there depends on this. The "Are you him?" line and then the spy code sentence that Locke had no clue about.... sounds like Desmond was waiting on his relief who never came.

The boots were Locke's. Any significance to the Apollo candy bars?

 

Tonight, my dislike for Ms. Bovine Eyes was renewed. She could give Walt "anything he wants." Great. How about Michael getting to see his friggin' kid, b/c you sure didn't reproduce asexually, B word. Some people can only think of what fits into their own definition of what's best... for them (And guys, let me tell you, when you meet these people, stay away from them, and for damn sure don't marry them).

[SilverNRed]

I didn't notice the logo on the shark. Is that serious? 

458386[/snapback]

It is. I caught it. It was the same "swan" logo that was on Desmond's jumpsuit and on some piece of equipment that Locke looked at when he first went down into the hatch. Looks like a corporate logo - maybe an octogon - and a single word across the middle (horizontally).

 

I thought I was going nuts when I saw that on the shark but if anyone else saw that too, that it can't be a coincidence. On this show, nothing is.

 

Any significance to the Apollo candy bars?

That was my first thought but I can't remember seeing anything with them in season 1. My bet is they'll start popping up in flashbacks this season (Hurley anyone?).

 

Great episode tonight. That last scene was perfect!

[UConn James]

Hmm. But if the survivors from the tail section were captured by the Others, how could they have answered Boone's radio call?... But they could have been captured after that.

 

Oh. And does anyone have the exact words that Desmond used as a code? That and the style of injection gun got me thinking Soviet espianage/listening post (Soviets were big on codes, and the fall of the USSR the reason why Desmond's relief never came?), but the writing on the food boxes was English.

 

I was asking about the Apollo bars in terms of pop culture references. It also had me thinking how similar Desmond's existance is to someone on the ISS.

[CosmicBills]

Hmm. But if the survivors from the tail section were captured by the Others, how could they have answered Boone's radio call?... But they could have been captured after that.

 

Oh. And does anyone have the exact words that Desmond used as a code? That and the style of injection gun got me thinking Soviet espianage/listening post (Soviets were big on codes, and the fall of the USSR the reason why Desmond's relief never came?), but the writing on the food boxes was English.

 

I was asking about the Apollo bars in terms of pop culture references. It also had me thinking how similar Desmond's existance is to someone on the ISS.

458402[/snapback]

 

His exact words where: "What did one snowman say to the other snowman"

 

And that riddle was on the card michael made for walt while he was in the hospital.....!!!!

[Talonz]

His exact words where: "What did one snowman say to the other snowman"

 

And that riddle was on the card michael made for walt while he was in the hospital.....!!!!

458403[/snapback]

What did one snowman say to the other snowman?

Can you smell carrots!

[PTS]

His exact words where: "What did one snowman say to the other snowman"

 

And that riddle was on the card michael made for walt while he was in the hospital.....!!!!

458403[/snapback]

Damn, I never caught that.

 

I think Walt is going to end up being "HIM".

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

It is.  I caught it.  It was the same "swan" logo that was on Desmond's jumpsuit and on some piece of equipment that Locke looked at when he first went down into the hatch.  Looks like a corporate logo - maybe an octogon - and a single word across the middle (horizontally).

 

I thought I was going nuts when I saw that on the shark but if anyone else saw that too, that it can't be a coincidence.  On this show, nothing is.

 

That was my first thought but I can't remember seeing anything with them in season 1.  My bet is they'll start popping up in flashbacks this season (Hurley anyone?).

 

Great episode tonight.  That last scene was perfect!

458392[/snapback]

 

That logo is in part based on the I Ching - specifically, the eight patterns of solid and broken bars around the outside. And now that I think of it, the "swan" couldn have been a stylized yin-yang.

 

There aren't many good web sites on the I Ching; best I found is Wikipedia, but it's not very good. (Although this site has a pretty good diagram of the trigrams, very close if not identical to the logo.) Most of the others are concentrated on fortune-telling, for which the I Ching is used, but it's significantly more than that. The basics as relate to that logo, though, are that the eight patterns represent the "the constituents of the universe, which form the basis of a cosmological system [...] The Eight Trigrams, together with thei Sixty-four Hexagrams formed by their combinations, therefore, represent all the possible situations and mutations of creation, a universe in miniature. This offers a good illustration of the transformation from simplicity to complexity." (From one of my books on Eastern philosophy.)

 

Or, put simply: "You All Everybody".

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

That logo is in part based on the I Ching - specifically, the eight patterns of solid and broken bars around the outside.  And now that I think of it, the "swan" couldn have been a stylized yin-yang.

 

There aren't many good web sites on the I Ching; best I found is Wikipedia, but it's not very good.  (Although this site has a pretty good diagram of the trigrams, very close if not identical to the logo.)  Most of the others are concentrated on fortune-telling, for which the I Ching is used, but it's significantly more than that.  The basics as relate to that logo, though, are that the eight patterns represent the "the constituents of the universe, which form the basis of a cosmological system [...] The Eight Trigrams, together with thei Sixty-four Hexagrams formed by their combinations, therefore, represent all the possible situations and mutations of creation, a universe in miniature.  This offers a good illustration of the transformation from simplicity to complexity."  (From one of my books on Eastern philosophy.) 

 

Or, put simply: "You All Everybody". 

458414[/snapback]

 

And in regards to the Apollo candy bars...it might not have anything to do with the space program. Apollo was the Greco-Roman god of prophecy (for which the I Ching was used) and medicine ("quarantine").

[Talonz]

That logo is in part based on the I Ching - specifically, the eight patterns of solid and broken bars around the outside.  And now that I think of it, the "swan" couldn have been a stylized yin-yang.

 

There aren't many good web sites on the I Ching; best I found is Wikipedia, but it's not very good.  (Although this site has a pretty good diagram of the trigrams, very close if not identical to the logo.)  Most of the others are concentrated on fortune-telling, for which the I Ching is used, but it's significantly more than that.  The basics as relate to that logo, though, are that the eight patterns represent the "the constituents of the universe, which form the basis of a cosmological system [...] The Eight Trigrams, together with thei Sixty-four Hexagrams formed by their combinations, therefore, represent all the possible situations and mutations of creation, a universe in miniature.  This offers a good illustration of the transformation from simplicity to complexity."  (From one of my books on Eastern philosophy.) 

 

Or, put simply: "You All Everybody". 

458414[/snapback]

 

 

Thank god for my DVR --

 

I just froze the screen where locke touched the symbol on what looks like a fusebox..

 

It is a swan..I am 90% certain..

 

There is a word in the middle...I'm trying to make it out..

 

The letters arent very clear but look like

OMATHA ??

[UConn James]

And in regards to the Apollo candy bars...it might not have anything to do with the space program.  Apollo was the Greco-Roman god of prophecy (for which the I Ching was used) and medicine ("quarantine"). 

458415[/snapback]

 

Didn't mean to imply anything about Desmond being connected with the space program, just that his living situation is reminicent of someone in the ISS.

 

Interesting stuff with the logo. I'm sure someone will come up with a screen capture.... I didn't get a very good look at it.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Thank god for my DVR --

 

I just froze the screen where locke touched the symbol on what looks like a fusebox..

 

It is a swan..I am 90% certain..

 

There is a word in the middle...I'm trying to make it out..

 

The letters arent very clear but look like

OMATHA ??

458421[/snapback]

 

Funny. I just did the same thing (with the logo on whassisname's jumpsuit), and I'm 100% sure it's a traditional yin-yang symbol. (I'll check the fuse box scene tomorrow; I'm too tired to go back right now.) Couldn't make out any words, though. And I'm completely, dead-nuts, you-can-rip-off-my-arm-if-I'm-wrong positive those are the I Ching trigrams.

 

Given the meanings of the I Ching, and the show's notable penchant to heavily use references to philosophy...it makes a hell of a lot more sense being the yin-yang symbol than it does a swan. Unless the logo's different on the fusebox and jumpsuit, which I also doubt.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Didn't mean to imply anything about Desmond being connected with the space program, just that his living situation is reminicent of someone in the ISS.

 

Interesting stuff with the logo. I'm sure someone will come up with a screen capture.... I didn't get a very good look at it.

458425[/snapback]

 

Didn't mean to sound like I'm criticizing; the space program is an obvious inference, and the first one that's going to jump to most people's minds (mine included). I think, though, the mythological explanation fits better with the general theme of the show as established.

[Talonz]

Funny.  I just did the same thing (with the logo on whassisname's jumpsuit), and I'm 100% sure it's a traditional yin-yang symbol.  (I'll check the fuse box scene tomorrow; I'm too tired to go back right now.)  Couldn't make out any words, though.  And I'm completely, dead-nuts, you-can-rip-off-my-arm-if-I'm-wrong positive those are the I Ching trigrams.

 

Given the meanings of the I Ching, and the show's notable penchant to heavily use references to philosophy...it makes a hell of a lot more sense being the yin-yang symbol than it does a swan.  Unless the logo's different on the fusebox and jumpsuit, which I also doubt.

458428[/snapback]

 

 

You're right on about I Ching trigrams! The lines are broken in different spots..But I don't know if that matters??

 

Also, look at the scene RIGHT AFTER the fuse box when Locke walks into another room. There is a large painting on the wall behind him with the # 108, a sun, some fish, maybe a monster in the top right corner???

[CosmicBills]

http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dharma8wn.jpg

 

http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lost3if.jpg

 

http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lostoctagon2hr.jpg

 

http://www.bartlettdesigns.com/fengshui-baguaoctagon.html

 

http://www.yogamag.net/archives/2000/5sep00/swantheo.shtml

 

 

Interesting....

 

 

(not my find! From another site...)

[Talonz]

http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dharma8wn.jpg

 

http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lost3if.jpg

 

http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lostoctagon2hr.jpg

 

http://www.bartlettdesigns.com/fengshui-baguaoctagon.html

 

http://www.yogamag.net/archives/2000/5sep00/swantheo.shtml

Interesting....

(not my find! From another site...)

458457[/snapback]

 

 

Dharma

 

Dharma is the teaching of the Buddha. Though the general meaning of dharma is phenomenon, the term most frequently refers to the Holy Dharma, profound manifestation, and the path that leads all beings to liberation from suffering-to enlightenment

[Talonz]

And in regards to the Apollo candy bars...it might not have anything to do with the space program.  Apollo was the Greco-Roman god of prophecy (for which the I Ching was used) and medicine ("quarantine"). 

458415[/snapback]

 

Here is something strange -- The swan symbol and an Apollo tie-in :

 

From :APOLLO

 

 

When Apollo entered the world, sacred swans circled the island seven times for it was the seventh day of the month. At once Zeus lavished many gifts upon his son including a golden miter, a chariot drawn by swans, and a lyre since legend has it at birth Apollo said, "Dear to me shall be the lyre and bow, and in oracles I shall reveal to men the inexorable will of Zeus." The god commanded his so to find sanctuary at Delphi. But before taking Apollo to Delphi, the swans flew him north to their own country on the edge of the ocean, which was home to the Hyperborean people, who was a supremely happy race for whom life was sweet. When the elderly became weary of existence, they accepted voluntary death by throwing themselves into the sea. Apollo was their high god; and went there at certain times to receive their homage. So, following his birth, he remained there an entire year before returning to Greece and reaching Delphi in midsummer. Nature made herself the most beautiful for him. Annually, the arrival of the god was celebrated with solemn ceremony and great slaughter.

[PTS]

My blog is done for this episode. I will clean it up tomorrow. There is some interesting stuff I noticed myself and some other stuff I read a Lost fansite about this episode. I took the time to watch this episode very slowly and tried to keep my comments to stuff that is confirmed or widely accepted. Well, for every part except the part where I think Desmond was in Michael's flashback. I'm pretty sure it was him though.

 

Click on the link in my signature.

[Mark Vader]

This show just keeps you on the edge of your seat.

 

I did see the logo on the shark the first time, but I thought it was just some bad cgi glitch.

 

Nice to see them get back to the virgin Mary figurine that Charlie took.

 

I feel so bad for Michael. Did anyone just want to punch Walt's mom, when her lawyer was ripping him apart?

 

Loved Kate's reaction to the candy bar.

 

Another polar bear sighting, only as a toy.

 

And what a mess Michael, Sawyer, & Jin have gotten into. Those "Others" are armed and dangerous.

 

 

I love this show.

[Ramius]

FWIW, i found out the Apollo Candy is a discontinued candy item...

[duey]

Here is something strange --  The swan symbol and an Apollo tie-in :

 

From :APOLLO

When Apollo entered the world, sacred swans circled the island seven times for it was the seventh day of the month. At once Zeus lavished many gifts upon his son including a golden miter, a chariot drawn by swans, and a lyre since legend has it at birth Apollo said, "Dear to me shall be the lyre and bow, and in oracles I shall reveal to men the inexorable will of Zeus." The god commanded his so to find sanctuary at Delphi. But before taking Apollo to Delphi, the swans flew him north to their own country on the edge of the ocean, which was home to the Hyperborean people, who was a supremely happy race for whom life was sweet. When the elderly became weary of existence, they accepted voluntary death by throwing themselves into the sea. Apollo was their high god; and went there at certain times to receive their homage. So, following his birth, he remained there an entire year before returning to Greece and reaching Delphi in midsummer. Nature made herself the most beautiful for him. Annually, the arrival of the god was celebrated with solemn ceremony and great slaughter.

458466[/snapback]

 

Jeez...what a fantastic tie in!

 

I have to say...the work done by the folks on this thread is top notch. Figuring out what the symbol is, and then all the subsequent analysis is great.

 

I really loved how last nights episode really fleshed out what we saw during Ep 1.

 

Anyone catch Kate's rack as she crawled down the air duct. HEY NOW!

[UConn James]

Loved Kate's reaction to the candy bar. 

458488[/snapback]

 

And she stuffed a whole bunch in her back pockets. Apparently she wasn't thinking of what chocolate does against body, as these are not M&Ms. And she put them in the worst of spots for that occurance and subsequent public opinion. And moreso when she was almost shot by Desmond when she was in the vent. That's something how after 2 eps, we're at the same point in time as the end of the first. I guess that's how they're going to slow this series down so it can last for a couple more seasons.

 

Anyone catch Kate's rack as she crawled down the air duct.  HEY NOW! 

458603[/snapback]

 

[UConn James]

From Mr. Clutch's blog:

He asks Locke who Kate is and he says "she's with me" to which Desmond asks a test question to Locke. "What Did One Snowman Say To The Other Snowman?" Does that question sound familiar? It should because that's what Michael wrote as a joke in one of his letters to Walt when Michael was recoverying in the hospital. Locke doesn't know the answer and Desmond gets pissed that he lied about being "Him".

 

So I guess it can be said that Desmond is waiting for Walt, who would be the one who'd know the riddle (He read the cards w/ Michael).

 

I totally missed Desmond at the goodbye scene. This is a show specifically designed for TiVo. Leaves those of us w/ antique over-air antennas out of the loop on the fine details until the DVDs come out.

[JinVA]

Did anyone just want to punch Walt's mom, when her lawyer was ripping him apart? 

 

 

458488[/snapback]

Yes

[stevestojan]

Mr Clutch, nice work on the BLOG. I forgot about the riddle "What did one snowman say to the other snowman".... Nice catch on that.

[SilverNRed]

Anyone catch Kate's rack as she crawled down the air duct.  HEY NOW! 

458603[/snapback]

Oh my God.....YES!

[goober]

My blog is done for this episode. I will clean it up tomorrow. There is some interesting stuff I noticed myself and some other stuff I read a Lost fansite about this episode. I took the time to watch this episode very slowly and tried to keep my comments to stuff that is confirmed or widely accepted. Well, for every part except the part where I think Desmond was in Michael's flashback. I'm pretty sure it was him though.

 

Click on the link in my signature.

458468[/snapback]

 

maybe i don't have an eye for detail, but I wouldn't call that Desmond in Michael's flashback, I'd call that an extra.

[linksfiend]

Jeez...what a fantastic tie in!

 

I have to say...the work done by the folks on this thread is top notch.  Figuring out what the symbol is, and then all the subsequent analysis is great.

 

I really loved how last nights episode really fleshed out what we saw during Ep 1.

 

Anyone catch Kate's rack as she crawled down the air duct.  HEY NOW! 

458603[/snapback]

 

I sure did catch the duct scene!

 

I also did think the emblem was a swan.

 

I did miss the emblem being on the shark's tail.

 

Also, while watching the Ep1 repeat, you could hear Kate calling to Jack faintly as he was wandering around the control room which was confirmed in last night's episode.

 

And I do concur that you all are doing some top notch work.

[Puhonix]

Anyone catch Kate's rack as she crawled down the air duct.  HEY NOW! 

458603[/snapback]

I got smacked for that one, Reminds to sit a little further from the sweetheart next time.

 

Anyways, I was out all morning in schools, and now that I'm back I can post what I've been dying to tell everyone since last night.

 

I think I know what's going on with the island.

 

And if I'm right, I'll be slightly dissapointed. Of course the way these writers work I'll be completely wrong. And if that's the case I'm quite alright with it and will further enjoy being wrong with theories.

 

Locke enters a code into a computer, a counter resets, and the cycle repeats itself for as long as the code can be entered. This reminds me of an episode of The Outer Limits I saw once. On the episode the Earth is attacked by aliens. In a last ditch survival move, the human put two people into a pod deep under ground. The sole job of these people is to survive, and to daily punch in a code that keeps the planet from nucleat annihilation. The thinking is that if all the humans die, and all hope is lost, the aliens will be destroyed too when no one punches the code in. Communication is kept, and the 2 people are told of the status of the war. In this particular episode the aliens find a way to mimic humans the 2 people end up being the last humans on Earth, but still continue to punch the code.

 

I think the island is similar. It's obviously got some high tech security system. Desmond is obviously the only one inside. He must have been told that there is an illness on the surface and that it will kill him if he stops taking the medication. He must continue to punch in the code to keep the island from exploding, and if he gets ill and dies, the island will self destruct keeping the illness from escaping any further. As another note, there's a distinct possibility that whatever it is that he is taking to prevent the illness might actually be keeping him in an unbalanced state. (The remedy is actually the poison.)

 

Oh, and is this the first time an episode has flashed back to an earlier event on the island?

 

Just my thoughts on an episode that didnt thrill me.

[geggytah]

i forgot....what was the answer the the snowman question?

[stevestojan]

i forgot....what was the answer the the snowman question?

458910[/snapback]

 

 

I smell carrots too.

 

????

[PTS]

i forgot....what was the answer the the snowman question?

458910[/snapback]

"Can you smell the carrotts?"

 

Or something to that affect.

[duey]

I think I know what's going on with the island.

 

And if I'm right, I'll be slightly dissapointed. Of course the way these writers work I'll be completely wrong. And if that's the case I'm quite alright with it and will further enjoy being wrong with theories.

 

Just my thoughts on an episode that didnt thrill me.

458844[/snapback]

 

I think, in general, your theory is probably right. I like the idea that he is resetting a doomsday device.

 

Now lets not forget this one fact...at the beginning of Ep1, it was the "countdown alarm" that had woken Desmond up. What is the time frame between when he wakes up and when the alarm goes off again when he was talking to Locke? Think about it...it's probably no more than hour or so. How could he alone keep having to reset countdown every hour? And quite frankly, I don't think the countdown would have such a short duration...a day, or even just 12 hours would be more realistic.

 

And don't forget this...when he hit the execute buttom after he woke up, he did so in response to an unhappy icon | I don't think he typed in the numbers. Once thought here is that the computer also serves as his morning alarm clock...hence the unhappy face.

 

At face value, this Ep filled in the gaps in the storyline given to us in Ep1. However, I see Ep2 as all about the little details...the things discussed earlier in this tread...the logo, the swan, the password, the candybar, etc. The writers of this show full well know the level to which each scene is dissected, and I think this Ep was written to give the viewer the chance to do some serious speculation and interpretation.

[fordhamSteve]

i forgot....what was the answer the the snowman question?

458910[/snapback]

 

I think it is "Do you smell carrots?".

[CoachChuckDickerson]

I like the theory on the timer reset relating to the place destroying itself.  The thinking is that if everyone is dead, the no one could reset the timer and BOOM!

 

Looks like next week we get to meet all sorts of new folks! 

458379[/snapback]

 

Jin referred to those folks chasing him as the "Others". Anybosy else think that maybe they are actually the other survivors that have formed some type of Lords of the Flies society on the other side of the island? Just a thought.

[duey]

Jin referred to those folks chasing him as the "Others". Anybosy else think that maybe they are actually the other survivors that have formed some type of Lords of the Flies society on the other side of the island? Just a thought.

458998[/snapback]

 

We've been tossing that one around here at work all morning. A number of possibilities exist, including your theory. I personally believe that there has to be some sort of contact between the other survivors of Flight 815 and "The Others." What is probably going on is that one by one, the other survivors are being captured (or worse) by "The Others." The rest of the 815ers are constantly on the run. I think that the people chasing Jin were members of "The Others," though it wouldn't be a stretch to think that perhaps some of the 815ers have become "Others." How's that for confusing!?