Did Mel Kiper see the same scrimmage I did?

[gggbills]

Let's see then...

 

Analysts are saying he looked bad.

Packers fans are saying he looked bad.

Jets fans are saying he looked bad.

Some Bills fans are saying he looked bad.

 

But all of those people are wrong, and only the Bills fans that say he looked great are correct.  Rose colored glasses, perhaps?

 

Again, we havn't even played a preseason game so there's LOTS of room for improvement.  But if we were starting the season tomorrow, with JPL under center, I'd be scared.

 

CW

401085[/snapback]

 

Not all analysts are saying he looked bad, and no one gives a sh$$ about what the packer or jets fans think. I watched last night he looked fine. Not bad, not great just fine. Had a few good passes, had a few bad ones. Made the right decision most of the time, except that one in the red zone. He did this with about a week or so of camp, and in front of 62,000 fans, most of which were against him. And unlike our other QBs he was playing agaist the 1st string defense of a team that made it to the playoffs last year.

 

Is holcomb better than JP at this point?...HE BETTER BE, he's a vet. If he is not, then TD really screwed up by signing KH. But JP will be better than Holcomb in time. Remember, this is the same JP that a lot people said looked great last year in preseason!! What he do, get worst? Lighten up people, JP will be fine. The more playing time he gets, the better he will become.

 

And when he starts on opening day, (and he will be starting), it will be with a full training camp and preseason under his belt, a gameplan tailored made for the defense he is facing, and the backing of any Bills fan with a brain in his or her head. The man will be fine....RELAX

[EndZoneCrew]

Two Words: Fug Kiper

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

They gave him some nice, easy, extended handoff type passes to start with and he completed them.  I really like this offensive staffs playcalling, they are clever and keep defenses off balance and it should have been a great confidence builder for Losman, but when they gave JP the opportunity to throw the ball downfield he was simply awful.  JP then had some discouraged body language going on and things seemed to snowball.  He was outplayed(relatively) by all 3 backups.  I hope he doesn't turn out to be a scattergun, but as I've said before, he reminds me of Donovan McNabb and McNabb was terrible in the preseason prior to his second year, then proceeded to lead the Eagles to the playoffs that season.

401078[/snapback]

 

Badol- I respect your opinions here quite a bit (I disagree with them sometimes but I do respect them) but I say as one who posted raising questions earlier about some of the over-praise they gave to JPs work last night that your assessment strikes me as a bit too negative and fearful the other way.

 

My sense is that the initial playcalling and JP passes were not necessarily hand-off type easiness or designed to ease him in. My recollection is:

 

1. The opening call of the reverse was not a pass-call but was pass-game significant for a couple of reasons:

A. Sent the message that this Bills offense may do anything at any time and I think that will be a hallmark of the MM/TC offense.

B. Offered JP some initial protection and help because hyped up opponents looking to make a name for themselves right away might aggressively jump routes and guess on what JP might do. By running a surprise right-away the Bills O and JP took the initiative and the Pack defenders were on their heels.

C. Seeing the orange jersey of the QB out there as a lead blocker for the reverse established JP as an aggressive player and showed a willingness to risk his body for the team.

 

The play was called back by a penalty but showe zero sign of easing him into this.

 

2. He hit Moulds coming back on a play which netted a first down. I'd label this a hand-off type pass if he virtually lateraled to Moulds behind the line, but this pass was downfield, right on time to Mould who immediately turned upfield for the first.

 

3. He did hit Campbell with a relatively short pass where he was tackled immediately. but the fact he was hit immediately but still got 3 yards are indicators it was not a "hand-off" but downfield and into some coverage. Campbell later caught a pass further downfield (maybe it was Holcomb but I think it was JP and was a completion even further downfield than his first pass to Campbell.

 

I think trying to interpret body language is really dangerous in terms of drawing conclusions. I agree that it felt like JPs lack of control did snowball downhill, but rather than charting this from some reading body language which usually says more about the observer than the observed, i charted this as stemming from he in game mistake all could see of the bad almost INT in the flat rather than a body language read.

 

I may misremember the order of events, but my guess is that his second big mistake of throwing an incomplete pass rather than walking it into the endzone probably stemmed from him desperately wanting to share a TD with someone on a pass rather than doing all himself.

 

Finally, I think it reads to much into things to compare any of the Bills's QBs performances to each other because their was such a huge drop-off in the relative talent of the opponent as you went down the depth chart. I thought their D starters were pretty bad actually so it will be interesting to see if JP can even complete 54% against tougher competition, but their 2nd and 3rd string player looked simply bad so I think it is tough to compare Matthews or Woodbury to JP at all based on their opponents talent level. Its tough, since maybe they were so bad because Matthews and Woodbury are so good, but i doubt this and just think that the Pack reserves are just not very good.

[PromoTheRobot]

Let's see then...

 

Analysts are saying he looked bad.

Packers fans are saying he looked bad.

Jets fans are saying he looked bad.

Some Bills fans are saying he looked bad.

 

But all of those people are wrong, and only the Bills fans that say he looked great are correct.  Rose colored glasses, perhaps?

 

Again, we havn't even played a preseason game so there's LOTS of room for improvement.  But if we were starting the season tomorrow, with JPL under center, I'd be scared.

 

CW

401085[/snapback]

Scared of what? I just watched every g**d**n snap JP took again. There was nothing wrong with his play. Of course Sterling Sharpe was yammering about mental and physical mistakes throughout the game. I'm guessing the naysayers were being swayed by his negativity.

 

I wish I could post a video file so you could see for yourself. JP was fine.

 

PTR

[Brandon]

``He really wasn't flinching. He looked comfortable in there,'' Mularkey said. ``I'm sure there's some things we're going to have to watch the tape and we'll say he should have or could have. But for the most part I was pretty pleased watching him live.''

 

At this point, if its good enough for the head coach, its good enough for me.

[gregkash]

Everyone's making too huge a deal out of this..

 

for one, that play with throw to the endzone.. he would have ran but it's not exactly fair to run when the other team isn't allowed to tackle you.

[Mile High]

Everyone's making too huge a deal out of this..

 

for one, that play with throw to the endzone.. he would have ran but it's not exactly fair to run when the other team isn't allowed to tackle you.

401129[/snapback]

Bingo. Not to mention he did scramble once. And I'm positive after that the coaches told him not to, otherwise he would've walked right in there for 6.

[Fezmid]

Scared of what?  I just watched every g**d**n snap JP took again.  There was nothing wrong with his play.  Of course Sterling Sharpe was yammering about mental and physical mistakes throughout the game.  I'm guessing the naysayers were being swayed by his negativity.

 

I wish I could post a video file so you could see for yourself.  JP was fine.

 

PTR

401112[/snapback]

 

Scared of what? Scared that we'll suck this year, that's what.

 

And I wasn't being swayed by any analysts. I was at the game and watched firsthand.

 

CW

[Mile High]

Scared of what?  Scared that we'll suck this year, that's what.

 

And I wasn't being swayed by any analysts.  I was at the game and watched firsthand.

 

CW

401141[/snapback]

Was that you I saw on t.v.? Were you wearing a red Bills hat with a home jersey?

[PromoTheRobot]

Scared of what?  Scared that we'll suck this year, that's what.

 

And I wasn't being swayed by any analysts.  I was at the game and watched firsthand.

 

CW

401141[/snapback]

I feel sorry for you, man. You are obsessed with the negative. While you are worrying about the team sucking, I can't wait for the opener. The Bills and JP are going to surprise a lot of people...including several so-called fans on this board.

 

PTR

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Again, JP in reality was 6-10 (60% completion) since on his first incompletion (to Evans) there was PI. And he did NOT throw an INT, since "almost INT's" don't count. In that vein I should say he had a TD, since had Evans not been interfered with on that play, he would have had a TD. But I won't. He also didn't get really sacked since they blew a quick whistle on that one play. For a first outing, I think that's a pretty good game, and things should only get better. Kiper and Clayton never liked JP and thus are trying to justify their misguided opinions on him.

[Terry Tate]

Sent the message that this Bills offense may do anything at any time and I think that will be a hallmark of the MM/TC offense.

One of my favorite things about this coaching staff is I don't know what they're going to do next. I'm a big fan, but I have absolutely no business being able to guess what's coming next. If you're not able to surprise me, I don't think you're going to catch the opposing team off guard. I've been correctly guessing way too many plays the last few years before these guys arrived. I like these coaches.

[nero47]

Depends.  While I didn't see it, I have seen quite a few folks here say that JP looked bad.  Throwing 54% with some very bad throws, low, and a sure pick that was dropped is not exactly lighting it up.  I honestly do not know what to expect from JP at this point.  However, I know that throwing 54% and thorwing a pick every 11 attempts is going to lose a lot of games for us.

401045[/snapback]

All the write-ups I saw reported stats of 6/10 or 6/9. my math shows 60% to 67%. That will win you a lot of ball games

 

Everyone talks about the almost interception and very little about the almost TD to Evans. Every QB has at least two bad throws per game, even brady and manning and I don't see them being labeled as weak.

 

JPL will get us where we need to go. The playoffs baby!!!!!

[Amstel]

Kiper is a draft guy. A lot of these guys don't follow every team closely so I wouldn't put any stock in what he says. Clayton? The guy reports on rumours and transactions he's not an analyst. PFT calls him the "Great Gazoo." Everyone says the same things about the Bills: "Great D and ST, Good RB and WR's only weak spot is at QB and OL."

[Mickey]

Badol- I respect your opinions here quite a bit (I disagree with them sometimes but I do respect them) but I say as one who posted raising questions earlier about some of the over-praise they gave to JPs work last night that your assessment strikes me as a bit too negative and fearful the other way.

 

My sense is that the initial playcalling and JP passes were not necessarily hand-off type easiness or designed to ease him in.  My recollection is:

 

1. The opening call of the reverse was not a pass-call but was pass-game significant for a couple of reasons:

A. Sent the message that this Bills offense may do anything at any time and I think that will be a hallmark of the MM/TC offense.

B. Offered JP some initial protection and help because hyped up opponents looking to make a name for themselves right away might aggressively jump routes and guess on what JP might do. By running a surprise right-away the Bills O and JP took the initiative and the Pack defenders were on their heels.

C. Seeing the orange jersey of the QB out there as a lead blocker for the reverse established JP as an aggressive player and showed a willingness to risk his body for the team.

 

The play was called back  by a penalty but showe zero sign of easing him into this.

 

2. He hit Moulds coming back on a play which netted a first down.  I'd label this a hand-off type pass if he virtually lateraled to Moulds behind the line, but this pass was downfield, right on time to Mould who immediately turned upfield for the first.

 

3. He did hit Campbell with a relatively short pass where he was tackled immediately. but the fact he was hit immediately but still got 3 yards are indicators it was not a "hand-off" but downfield and into some coverage.  Campbell later caught a pass further downfield (maybe it was Holcomb but I think it was JP and was a completion even further downfield than his first pass to Campbell.

 

I think trying to interpret body language is really dangerous in terms of drawing conclusions.  I agree that it felt like JPs lack of control did snowball downhill, but rather than charting this from some reading body language which usually says more about the observer than the observed, i charted this as stemming from he in game mistake all could see of the bad almost INT in the flat rather than a body language read.

 

I may misremember the order of events, but my guess is that his second big mistake of throwing an incomplete pass rather than walking it into the endzone probably stemmed from him desperately wanting to share a TD with someone on a pass rather than doing all himself.

 

Finally, I think it reads to much into things to compare any of the Bills's QBs performances to each other because their was such a huge drop-off in the relative talent of the opponent as you went down the depth chart. I thought their D starters were pretty bad actually so it will be interesting to see if JP can even complete 54% against tougher competition, but their 2nd and 3rd string player looked simply bad so I think it is tough to compare Matthews or Woodbury to JP at all based on their opponents talent level.  Its tough, since maybe they were so bad because Matthews and Woodbury are so good, but i doubt this and just think that the Pack reserves are just not very good.

401109[/snapback]

I don't think the reverse call was all that significant besides establishing what we already knew, MM and TC like reverses. We ran at least one a game last year with DB as our QB and usually had success with them. We had a lot of speed at WR last year and we have even more this year so again, I think we are going to see plenty of reverses just as we did last year.

 

Why do they like reverses? Because it slows a defense down just like most misdrection plays do. It gives CB's pause which can slow them down in their run support duties. It also slows down DE's whose job it is to prevent a reverse from getting outside. While they are taking a direct angle to the QB, the WR suddenly appears with the ball getting outside the DE whose rush at the QB has taken him out of position. Reverses have their drawbacks though, they can get seriously blown for a large loss if the defense smells it out.

 

As for JP, he showed some good, some bad. About what I expected. I see no reasons to gush with praise or to predict doomsday over his first scrimmage. There was enough there to be excited to see chapter two of his development next week and enough mistakes to refrain from declaring him a saviour.

[Nanker]

All of a sudden I'm reading posts that JP sucked in the GB scrimmage.  Are you kidding me?  The guys has 2-3 bad passes and he sucks??  Never mind evrything he did well.

 

I'm convinced now that either people want JP to fail, or are so convinced that the Bills will suck, their brains filter out the good and magnify the bad.  That is the only possible explanation.

 

As for Kiper and Clayton saying JP looked "iffy" consider the source.  When did these numbnuts ever get anything right about the Bills?  They probably fast-forwarded the TIVO and saw one incomplete pass.

 

PTR

401069[/snapback]

 

They're just pissed at Donnaho because he zipped up his fly.

[Nervous Guy]

Let's see then...

 

Analysts are saying he looked bad.

Packers fans are saying he looked bad.

Jets fans are saying he looked bad.

Some Bills fans are saying he looked bad.

 

But all of those people are wrong, and only the Bills fans that say he looked great are correct.  Rose colored glasses, perhaps?

 

Again, we havn't even played a preseason game so there's LOTS of room for improvement.  But if we were starting the season tomorrow, with JPL under center, I'd be scared.

 

CW

401085[/snapback]

did any of you guys actually read all the Jets fan's posts? It was split...some thought he sucked. some thought he was fine...kinda like us.

[Fezmid]

did any of you guys actually read all the Jets fan's posts?  It was split...some thought he sucked. some thought he was fine...kinda like us.

401277[/snapback]

 

Right, but according to PTR, everyone who doesn't think he was great is stupid and didn't really watch the scrimmage.

 

As for JP, he showed some good, some bad. About what I expected. I see no reasons to gush with praise or to predict doomsday over his first scrimmage. There was enough there to be excited to see chapter two of his development next week and enough mistakes to refrain from declaring him a saviour.

 

That's pretty much what I said -- he was below average Friday night, but we're not even at the first preseason game.

CW

[ricojes]

What were everyones expectations going into this "scrimmage"? This was JP's first action of the year with only one week on training camp under his belt. I was more concerned with how well he knew the plays, did he look confortable, would he scramble every down. I think he handled all 3 of my concerns rather well. The completion percentage was the least of my concerns, it really doesn't matter. He is progressing very well and has another month before the season starts. Were going to grow with this kid and there will be some bad and some good, that's to be expected. With our defense all he has to do is not lose games, a la Drew Bledsoe. LET'S GO BUFFALO..............I am so psyched for the opener!!!!!

[PromoTheRobot]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/p...330/1007/SPORTS

 

"(August 7, 2005) — GREEN BAY, Wis. — Buffalo Bills quarterback J.P. Losman impressed his teammates with his quick reads and quick release during Friday night's scrimmage against the Green Bay Packers at Lambeau Field.

 

What had players buzzing afterward, however, was Losman's presence in the huddle and how the screams of 62,000-plus enemy fans didn't seem to faze the first-year starter."

 

No mention of being shaky, twitchy, confused, lost, or making mental errors. How do you explain that? Everyone from Mel Kiper to Sterling Sharpe, to the Jets fan board (we know how objective THOSE guys are!) said JP sucked out loud!

 

I guess being Bills fans, we would all rather believe the sky is falling rather than have anything good happen. Even when we see it with our own eyes, we won't believe it.

 

PTR