Williams move to LT?

[The Jokeman]

Call me crazy but I'm not sure it's a great idea to have a rookie center, rookie QB, and a tailback with 11 starts under his belt.

398529[/snapback]

I agree with you but don't be shocked if Preston is starting next season (and we let Teague leave via free agent) and a rookie starting at LT.

[Alaska Darin]

I agree with you but don't be shocked if Preston is starting next season (and we let Teague leave via free agent) and a rookie starting at LT.

398536[/snapback]

I can see that happening. I thought when Preston was drafted that TT was probably gone at the end of his deal.

[The Jokeman]

I can see that happening.  I thought when Preston was drafted that TT was probably gone at the end of his deal.

398542[/snapback]

My only concern is if Preston going to be an answer or not. As felt at the time of the draft a better option was Jason Brown.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

dude... show me anywhere/anything where Teflon Tom or any coach had,  or announced, a plan for Mike Williams to be moved to LT after a year or so.

 

MW has enough to handle RT... and he hasn't mastered that, yet. 

 

Don't lose sleep over this LT thingy.  I guarantee you, by opening day there will be a body there... and it will be the best body at LT that the bills have.

398380[/snapback]

 

I don't think Teflon Tom or anyone has ever ever ever in any public case said they planned to move MW LT.

 

Big deal because what they say and what the market says are two different things.

 

The LT market is in transition right now because demand for LTs has dropped a lot because demand was so high a few years back that even pedestrian LT talents like Petitgout or Clifton got huge multi-year contracts to play the position which far outpaced what even RTs and most other OL players could command. A couple of years ago only 1 of the top 10 OL cap hits was a G (Ruben Brown ironically) and other those 9 tackles at lesst 7 or 8 of them were LTs.

 

Conceivably the Bills OL budget would be the Bills OL budget and they would have the same total OL cap alliocation paying MW the contract they gave him to play RT. However, to do this they would have to play exactly the game we are playing now of finding a Gandy who will man the position on the cheap because Jennings demanded (and got from SF who I think overpaid badly for him) a big contract.

 

it is pretty clear to anyone who chooses to pay any attention to the market for players that the Bills were planning to move MW to LT as soon as they had to and could. Unfortunately, he had a meltdown last year and the move was delayed, but since it is simply cheaper to buy and RT than an LT the Bills will either move MW or cut him as his abilities and the contract demands.

[Bill from NYC]

Call me crazy but I'm not sure it's a great idea to have a rookie center, rookie QB, and a tailback with 11 starts under his belt.

398529[/snapback]

 

Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. Tell me, when was the last time that the situation at OL sounded good for the Bills?

 

A Parcells press conference was on NFL Channel this afternoon. He stated that all 5 of the offensive linemen have to be physically and mentally tough; guys who play beyond their talents.

Other than CV, I dont know how many of our guys fit this description, but things need to improve.

Btw, he also said it is MUCH easier to draft a good wr than a good OG!

 

As for Big Mike, yes, he did improve in the second half of 04. I guess he had earned in the neighborhood of 20 million by then. You are right about the importance of the guy next to him. When CV was hurt, MW faltered.

Improvement or not, my answers to Mickey's questions are:

1) I don't think MW can play LT.

2) Yes, he was drafted to early. RTs don't go in the top 10, let alone 4th.

3) Yes, he is overpaid, but this ges hand in hand with #2.

[ans4e64]

i dont know, i would feel more comfortable with big mike on the left side rather than someone else, but at the same time the worst part of mike's game is pass blocking, hes always been good in the run, and im sure JP wouldnt feel confident with mike's strugglesw on his blind side, i'de rather have someone who is not as complete as mike but pass blocking be his strength

[The Jokeman]

Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. Tell me, when was the last time that the situation at OL sounded good for the Bills?

 

398570[/snapback]

March 30, 1993 ie the day before OT Will Wolford signed a $7.65 million, 3-year contract with the Indianapolis Colts.

[San-O]

March 30, 1993 ie the day before  OT Will Wolford signed a $7.65 million, 3-year contract with the Indianapolis Colts.

398586[/snapback]

 

 

According to this article, th O-line ranked 30th in the league

over the last three years in sacks given up.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8704099

 

No Bledsoe a plus (+), ? at RT, a minus (-).

 

Net result?

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

you are right in that you need a stud at LT.

 

Too bad it's not Fat Mike.

 

He does not have the speed or agility to handle speed rushes as a TR, let alone elite rushers as a LT.

 

Jason Peters on the other hand does have the physical tools to handle speed rushers and although inexperienced is the better LT prospect.

Fat Mike does have the muscle and power to anchor a dominant run game on the right side of the line. Willis should never be stopped on short yardage to the right side.

398456[/snapback]

 

I think you are wrong in your assessment of "Fat" Mike.

 

1. He is fat but so are most OL players so forgive me if i simply refer to him as MW, calling him Fat Mike is fine with me if it makes you feel good.

 

2. MW has had a variety of struggles as a player but handling speed rushes or outside rushes has not been his biggest issue. Coordinating with the RG next to him has been his biggest issue an area which improved vastly when steady Villarial teamed up with and steadied MW rather than the horrid adventures watching him try to coordinate with Sullivan and the Pacillo.

 

3. As a rookie, MW attracted attention and drew the 4th pick exactly because he showed good agility and great athleticism for an OL player and particularly one of his size. My recollection is that at the combine it was in particular it was the results he put up in the shuttle run which called for him to get into a stance and then move up and down as well as back and forth pickling up cones that impressed folks where he was evaluated as ahead of McKinnie by most draft gurus.

 

4. As far as muscle and power, these were the areas where few had doubts about him that they had on the agility question. He is a big boy and his muscle and power have never been questioned it is whether he had the agility to use his muscle properly.

 

5. I'm not sure what planet you were on the last few years but the Bills clearly had a dominant run game in 2002 as TH put up over 1400 yards and made the Pro Bowl and even Larry Centers went over 5 yards a carry as a change up. The Bills had a good running attack with TH going over 1300 in 2003 and an even better one with a better RB in WM last year. One of the hallmarks of the Bills running attack among pundits was that they ran both to the left side and the right side and did not have a bias either way as many teams actually do tend toward the lesser traffic on the left side and it is actually somewhat surprising the Bills did not have a clear tendency away from MW and behind using Ruben as a pulling guard.

 

6. One should not discount the prospects of Peters because he clearly is a good athlete and JMac is publicly behind him as the future at LT. However, there is simply no good football reason beyond faith in JMac to think that a player who has never played a full season as a lineman (much less as an LT) should be assumed ready to take blindside responsibility for the young QB. Particularly with the injury to Everett, do not be surprised if rather than taking the ball out of his hands we see a bit of Peters at TE. If he is as great an athlete as you and others say just throw him the damn ball,

 

MW faltered big time last year when the Grammy who raised him died. However, i think the first choice is Gabdy, the second option is Teague though this move becomes dependent on others like Preston stepping up and after that moving MW which should not even be talked about by the brtaintrust until they are sure MW is over last year' melltdown is the best third option.

[Bill from NYC]

>>>>>5. I'm not sure what planet you were on the last few years but the Bills clearly had a dominant run game in 2002 as TH put up over 1400 yards and made the Pro Bowl and even Larry Centers went over 5 yards a carry as a change up. The Bills had a good running attack with TH going over 1300 in 2003 and an even better one with a better RB in WM last year. One of the hallmarks of the Bills running attack among pundits was that they ran both to the left side and the right side and did not have a bias either way as many teams actually do tend toward the lesser traffic on the left side and it is actually somewhat surprising the Bills did not have a clear tendency away from MW and behind using Ruben as a pulling guard.<<<<<

 

True, and you can thank Kevin Gilbride, who ran an abortion of a "run n' shoot" offense without blocking. Great idea, huh?

Defenders were teeing off on the qb on every play, and "shooting" right past the line of scrimage. Even at that, our rbs lacked the speed to deliver long td runs.

Those yards were hardly a tribute to the offensive line, which once again sucked.

[Bill from NYC]

I apologize for not being clearer.  MW handled speed rushers just fine last season, (contrary to your inference) and was quite likely the best RT in football the last half of the season.  His biggest problem in the past was who lined up next to him and the fact that he got clearly substandard coaching during at least his first two seasons.  Both of those things have been remedied.

 

I was not implying that he could play LT, I have no idea if he could handle the flip.

398502[/snapback]

 

Odd that with Bledsoe, you attribute any good thing he did to weak competition. With MW, you chalk up his improvement to everything else but.

[Mickey]

I don't think Teflon Tom or anyone has ever ever ever in any public case said they planned to move MW LT.

 

Big deal because what they say and what the market says are two different things.

 

The LT market is in transition right now because demand for LTs has dropped a lot because demand was so high a few years back that even pedestrian LT talents like Petitgout or Clifton got huge multi-year contracts to play the position which far outpaced what even RTs and most other OL players could command.  A couple of years ago only 1 of the top 10 OL cap hits was a G (Ruben Brown ironically) and other those 9 tackles at lesst 7 or 8 of them were LTs.

 

Conceivably the Bills OL budget would be the Bills OL budget and they would have the same total OL cap alliocation paying MW the contract they gave him to play RT.  However, to do this they would have to play exactly the game we are playing now of finding a Gandy who will man the position on the cheap because Jennings demanded (and got from SF who I think overpaid badly for him) a big contract.

 

it is pretty clear to anyone who chooses to pay any attention to the market for players that the Bills were planning to move MW to LT as soon as they had to and could. Unfortunately, he had a meltdown last year and the move was delayed, but since it is simply cheaper to buy and RT than an LT the Bills will either move MW or cut him as his abilities and the contract demands.

398554[/snapback]

good points, the question is: Are his abilities such that he could be moved now? At the least, I would think that it is something that is being considered or will be if Gandy can't hack it.

[The Jokeman]

According to this article, th O-line ranked 30th in the league

over the last three years in sacks given up.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8704099

 

No Bledsoe a plus (+), ? at RT, a minus (-).

 

Net result?

398596[/snapback]

My point was this O-line has been a question mark since Wolford left and never been fully addressed. I at least give Donahoe credit for trying to improve it a little more then Butler ever did.

[IDBillzFan]

Odd that with Bledsoe, you attribute any good thing he did to weak competition. With MW, you chalk up his improvement to everything else but.   

398612[/snapback]

Typical Bledsoe basher, he is.

[34-78-83]

This debate would be a hell of a lot more relevant in 1995 than it is in 2005. I always get flack on this but the placement of DE's in today's NFL has changed. Nearly as many of the best are now lining up at LDE, or switching sides during the course of games. The "strong side" TE formation is also a in flux compared to what it was 10 years ago. There is a lot more motion, double TE sets, etc. being used. This all minimizes the general assumption that LT's are significantly more important than RT's in today's game. Fire away....

[Mickey]

True, and you can thank Kevin Gilbride, who ran an abortion of a "run n' shoot" offense without blocking.

398610[/snapback]

That was an insult to abortion.

[Bill from NYC]

This debate would be a hell of a lot more relevant in 1995 than it is in 2005. I always get flack on this but the placement of DE's in today's NFL has changed. Nearly as many of the best are now lining up at LDE, or switching sides during the course of games. The "strong side" TE formation is also a in flux compared to what it was 10 years ago. There is a lot more motion, double TE sets, etc. being used. This all minimizes the general assumption that LT's are significantly more important than RT's in today's game. Fire away....

398638[/snapback]

 

I don't think that anyone is denying what you say, but the blindside is still the blindside.

[Mickey]

This debate would be a hell of a lot more relevant in 1995 than it is in 2005. I always get flack on this but the placement of DE's in today's NFL has changed. Nearly as many of the best are now lining up at LDE, or switching sides during the course of games. The "strong side" TE formation is also a in flux compared to what it was 10 years ago. There is a lot more motion, double TE sets, etc. being used. This all minimizes the general assumption that LT's are significantly more important than RT's in today's game. Fire away....

398638[/snapback]

All that is true, no doubt. However, it doesn't change the fact that a right handed quarterback has a blind spot on his left side. Look at the money Jonas Jennings got to play LT. The market still values them more than RT's even if less so than in the past.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Odd that with Bledsoe, you attribute any good thing he did to weak competition. With MW, you chalk up his improvement to everything else but.   

398612[/snapback]

My 1 and half cents on factors in MW improvement:

 

1. He melted down so badly during the OTAs last year that I think any rebirth has to start with his attitude being adjusted, The key to change is the teaching, better scheme and hard work which were involved, but MW got so bad in terms of putting on extra tonnage and showing little work ethic in off-season 04 that the change started in his head/heart. I think the overall situation was not good as our OL after 03 was in disarray as the offense under Kevin Killdrive was idiocy and GW never forced him to divesify. Ruben Brown stood up to this idiocy but paid the price as when you prove you can stand up to your bosses for your teammates your new bosses may not want you around without good reason and a Ruben in decline with a neutral cap hit for cutting or keeping him was gone, Without any coaching leadership and little vet direction from fellow OL players MW proved not able to keep his eye on the prize amidst the trauma of a death in the family.

 

2. The hiring of an offensive minded HC with an OC who preached an identity consistent with the HC and then the hiring of JMac suddenly their was direction and quality guidance for the O. I think this made a big difference fror MW as suddenly there was a threre there.

 

3. JMac took a personal interest in MW which he had to do because of the MW cap hit. He nicely applied sticks (threatening publicly to move MW to guard) and carrots awarding MW a game ball for his play in a sack free game toward the middle of the season.

 

4. Having the steady Villarial there had to help a lot. MW played next to Sullivan his first year who at least had more experience than the rookie MW though Sullivan also lacked ability (he eventually was cut). 03 was a disaster as MW found himself in his second season actually expected to carry and school Pacillo who not only had less skills but non-NFL level talent at RG. Its too bad that Villarial or someone of similar experience was not there for MW from the start or he would likely be much further along.

 

The good news for Bills fans is apparently MW showed up clearly having worked out in the offseason and this sleeker modle still has a ton of weight but is here to play ball.

[34-78-83]

I don't think that anyone is denying what you say, but the blindside is still the blindside.

398643[/snapback]

 

All that is true, no doubt. However, it doesn't change the fact that a right handed quarterback has a blind spot on his left side. Look at the money Jonas Jennings got to play LT. The market still values them more than RT's even if less so than in the past.

 

Points taken....