just give it to them

[R. Rich]

As I recall the official rules was (is?) that if the ball touches a player and any part of that player is out of bounds the ball is considered out of bounds. I'm not saying I agree with the rules and it seems really stupid in the case of David Patten, but that was (is) the rule.

 

NE also was saved by the official rule when Brady was sacked against the Raiders - the infamous "tuck rule". Again, stupid rule, but officially correct according to the rulebook.

 

I guess what bothers me most is that when it comes to simple rules like having to have 2 feet in bounds when making a catch or having to actually go past the first down marker to actually make a first down the refs seem to blow it but when there is some very obscure official rule that can save the Pats somehow the refs become rulebook scholars who know and enfore the most minute details - very troublesome. Have the Bills ever benefitted from a ref knowing an obscure rule that saved us from something that common sense should have been ruled against us?

396346[/snapback]

 

 

Excellent! Way to put it in perspective, Tony. Why is it that they can blow the easy ones, yet nail the tough ones routinely................when the Patriots are the beneficiary, that is?

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Ok, so the ball touched an unconscious patten who was ruled to have possession of it even tho he was drooling on himself in a prone position with his head on the sideline...but then, he was OB and thus became the first player to touch the ball after being out of bounds...so shouldnt this be a penalty on him?

396354[/snapback]

 

Even better...that rule means that an unconscious player can maintain possession only if he's unconscious out of bounds. An unconscious player in bounds cannot maintain possession.

 

How thoroughly screwed-up a rule is that?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

It was slightly worse than the unconscious guy who was half out-of-bounds who somehow recovered a fumble

395865[/snapback]

 

That was the single worst call I have EVER seen in ANY game, EVER. Even worse than the Music City upchuck. At least that one was close. The unconscious PAtten thing burned my britches for weeks.

[The Avenger]

Even better...that rule means that an unconscious player can maintain possession only if he's unconscious out of bounds.  An unconscious player in bounds cannot maintain possession.

 

How thoroughly screwed-up a rule is that?  

396385[/snapback]

 

As I recall, the rule/ruling had nothing to do with posession. It simply stated (states?) that a ball touching a player out of bounds is likewise considered out of bounds. Patten didn't have to have posession. The instant the unconcious fool touched the ball and part of him was out of bounds the ball was considered out of bounds and dead, therefore it could not be recovered by Bills the way it was. The ball was fumbled, then went dead by an out of bounds Patten touching it, leaving posession to the Pats (but not necessarily Patten).

 

Again - I don't agree with the rule (I'm not even sure of the rationale behind it), but that's the way it was. My gripe is that the call was officially correct, but it called for the ref to know and enforce an obscure rule that went against common sense - the Pats seem to get those calls for some reason.

[Dan Gross]

Excellent!  Way to put it in perspective, Tony.  Why is it that they can blow the easy ones, yet nail the tough ones routinely................when the Patriots are the beneficiary, that is?

396378[/snapback]

 

Oh, they took their time figgering that one out....while everyone was freezing their tookuses (tooki ?) off...it was a good 10 minutes before there was a ruling on that...

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

As I recall, the rule/ruling had nothing to do with posession. It simply stated (states?) that a ball touching a player out of bounds is likewise considered out of bounds. Patten didn't have to have posession. The instant the unconcious fool touched the ball and part of him was out of bounds the ball was considered out of bounds and dead, therefore it could not be recovered by Bills the way it was. The ball was fumbled, then went dead by an out of bounds Patten touching it, leaving posession to the Pats (but not necessarily Patten).

 

Again - I don't agree with the rule (I'm not even sure of the rationale behind it), but that's the way it was. My gripe is that the call was officially correct, but it called for the ref to know and enforce an obscure rule that went against common sense - the Pats seem to get those calls for some reason.

396421[/snapback]

 

Yes, literally the rule has nothing to do with possession. However, the effect is the same: a player who is knocked unconscious and fumbles can maintain possession of the ball if he falls out of bounds. It is a singularly screwed up rule.

[BRH]

Oh, they took their time figgering that one out....while everyone was freezing their tookuses (tooki ?)  off...it was a good 10 minutes before there was a ruling on that...

396430[/snapback]

They took a good goddamn long time getting a ruling on the "tuck" play too, if I recall right. In a blinding snowstorm no less.

[stuckincincy]

Oh, they took their time figgering that one out....while everyone was freezing their tookuses (tooki ?)  off...it was a good 10 minutes before there was a ruling on that...

396430[/snapback]

 

 

tooki!

[ATBNG]

Check out game #5 of that season at Indy.  We had a 3-4 TD lead before putting our scrubs in, and we only won by 7.  That cost us the tie-breaker.  I don't think a tie-breaker had ever come down to that before.  I assure you that's not what the Pats were thinking about.

No, I couldn't get my 'quid' down on time.  Pretty selfish of Wade and myself that we weren't thinking from the gambler's perspective. 

396271[/snapback]

 

What were they thinking about then? Did they have evil in their hearts? There is not a coach in the world who, given an undefensed conversion, would choose to kick for one (which might fail) rather than run for two (which can't fail). It's really, really inane to suggest otherwise - that the Pats did something that other teams wouldn't do by running in the two pointer.

 

There is an enormous, enormous difference between pulling starters (and possibly protecting them from injury) and conceding point differential, and what Phillips did when time had expired. He had every right to be upset, because the end was a sham, but the method of protest he chose was really dumb because it could only hurt his team. Very unlikely that the point would ever matter, but there was no upside. Saying that a tiebreaker has never come down to that is irrelevant - it *could* come down to that. As Pacino said, you have to fight for every inch in football - you never know when that will be the difference.

 

I lot a ton of respect for Phillips that day. He's not at Gilbride levels, but I don't think much of him as a coach. Plus, the whole Captain Kangaroo lookalike thing throws me off.

[BuffOrange]

I actually remember him saying that he honestly thought the game was over, and none of the refs came into the locker room and told them that it wasn't.

Maybe that sounds stupid, but I believe him.

[patswhiponthebills]

This comes up for me alot at work - in Las Vegas, most certainly not Bills country.

 

My good friend from work always rags on me about the Bills, you know the 4 super bowls, etc etc.  Heard it a thousand times.  One day a while ago we were talking about it at lunch - really all we talk about is sports - and I brought up how we repeatedly get screwed by refs, referencing the Just Give it to Em game.  He immediately gets pissed, but for a different reason than all of us.  Being in Las Vegas, he had a few big bets placed that day on the nfl games.  The last one was the Bills-NE game.  He's watching it end, as we all were, and the whole mess transpires as has been covered before.  Then he watches the 2 point conversion-walk in as Wade and the troops left the field.  TUrns out the 2 point conv costs him on a big bet, as the Pats either covered or beat the spread (probably beat the spread) w/ the 2 pointer and would have pushed w/ the extra point.  A Raiders fan, he said that's bad for him, but not as bad as the tuck rule, which  I bring up often as further evidence of the NFL's BS.  Gets us both worked up.  Quite a productive way to spend the lunch break.

395857[/snapback]

 

 

 

the tuck rule was there long before that game and is still there(for a good reason).and was called correctly that game to.

 

even though im a pats fan,i do recall the-just give it to them- game. and will admit the bills got screwed HARD.

 

now back to your BLIND friend who cries over the nfl rule book because the raider fans dont like to literally follow rules. be sure to tell him that not only was the tuck rule called correctly,tell him he tuck rule should have never been brought up in the first place because of the HUGE missed call, wich was charles woodson open hand b_i_t_c_h slapping brady on the side of the head on that play and getting away with a 15 yard roughing the passer penalty.(even some oakland beat writers wrote this much). if anybody got screwed out of a call on that play,it was the pats(no boubt about that).

 

 

and of course theres that cheaters(eric allens) part in this play,when on the play before the tuck call,eric chased brady out of bounds and over heard weises next call while he was still on the pats sideline and knew what play it was. talk about bush league cheating. why anybody would want to win that way and feel good about it i will never understand. i would have said,hey weis,i overheard your play call (while im on your sidelines) and i know exactly what play that is,change it up cause i dont wanna win like this,why would i.-- (allen admitted this on his espn show last year btw). so tell your blind buddy that only the pats got cheated on that tuck play by not getting a roughing the passer call(that was most clearly missed) and a first down with a extra 15 yards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

and on the paten play,the guy was out of bounds touching the ball in bounds.the ball is dead.thats a simple one.thats not a bad call at all.its quite a good one and makes perfect sense.whenever i think of that play,the first thing that comes to mind is,why the FORK did david just not step out of bounds on that play to begin with??? he could have simply stepped out of bounds without taking a hit.he had nowhere to go and foolishley took on a incoming player and took a hit when he absolutely did not have to. play should have never happened,just step out of bounds.

 

 

 

and the pats have been SCREWED-OVER on the wrong side of calls more then you can ever imagine.and theres been a few calls that have been big-time OVERBLOWN by pea-brain fans over the years when the actual correct call was made by the refs in favor of the pats,but they were CORRECT calls.

 

 

i can still remember ty law being called for pass interference on moulds early in that first quarter of game one of the 03 seaso(bills won 31-0).law barely grazed moulds and the ball was over thrown by TEN yards easy and was absolutely uncatchable.

 

 

or the miami game in 03 in miami(pats won with a overtime bomb to brown) when the refs gave chambers credit for a catch right before the end of the fourth quarter,even though chambers had one of his feet clearly out of bounds by about 5 inches. the pass went for about 25 yards and put them in position for a game winning fg(wich i believe was blocked) that could of won the game.

--hell,even the refs blew the coin toss for that overtime flip. a miami player called heads and the coin landed on tails but the refs F-ED up and gave miami possession.

 

 

theres about 10 different other times i can think of on the top of my head where the pats got F-ED hard by the refs.

[Rubes]

the tuck rule was there long before that game and is still there(for a good reason).and was called correctly that game to.

 

even though im a pats fan,i do recall the-just give it to them- game. and will admit the bills got screwed HARD.

 

now back to your BLIND friend who cries over the nfl rule book because the raider fans dont like to literally follow rules. be sure to tell him that not only was the tuck rule called correctly,tell him he tuck rule should have never been brought up in the first place because of the HUGE missed call, wich was charles woodson open hand b_i_t_c_h slapping brady on the side of the head on that play and getting away with a 15 yard roughing the passer penalty.(even some oakland beat writers wrote this much). if anybody got screwed out of a call on that play,it was the pats(no boubt about that).

and of course theres that cheaters(eric allens) part in this play,when on the play before the tuck call,eric chased brady out of bounds and over heard weises next call while he was still on the pats sideline and knew what play it was. talk about bush league cheating. why anybody would want to win that way and feel good about it i will never understand. i would have said,hey weis,i overheard your play call (while im on your sidelines) and i know exactly what play that is,change it up cause i dont wanna win like this,why would i.-- (allen admitted this on his espn show last year btw).  so tell your blind buddy that only the pats got cheated on that tuck play by not getting a roughing the passer call(that was most clearly missed) and a first down with a extra 15 yards.

and on the paten play,the guy was out of bounds touching the ball in bounds.the ball is dead.thats a simple one.thats not a bad call at all.its quite a good one and makes perfect sense.whenever i think of that play,the first thing that comes to mind is,why the FORK did david just not step out of bounds on that play to begin with??? he could have simply stepped out of bounds without taking a hit.he had nowhere to go and foolishley took on a incoming player and took a hit when he absolutely did not have to. play should have never happened,just step out of bounds.

and the pats have been SCREWED-OVER on the wrong side of calls more then you can ever imagine.and theres been a few calls that have been big-time OVERBLOWN by pea-brain fans over the years when the actual correct call was made by the refs in favor of the pats,but they were CORRECT calls.

i can still remember ty law being called for pass interference on moulds early in that first quarter of game one of the 03 seaso(bills won 31-0).law barely grazed moulds and the ball was over thrown by TEN yards easy and was absolutely uncatchable.

or the miami game in 03 in miami(pats won with a overtime bomb to brown) when the refs gave chambers credit for a catch right before the end of the fourth quarter,even though chambers had one of his feet clearly out of bounds by about 5 inches. the pass went for about 25 yards and put them in position  for a game winning fg(wich i believe was blocked) that could of won the game.

--hell,even the refs blew the coin toss for that overtime flip. a miami player called heads and the coin landed on tails but the refs F-ED up and gave miami possession. 

theres about 10 different other times i can think of on the top of my head where the pats got F-ED hard by the refs.

396878[/snapback]

 

 

Now that's precisely what this thread did not need. A troll.

 

Blah blah blah.

[Wacka]

How about the snowplow game where the Patsies had to use a criminal to cheat.

Of course, they beat the felons, which makes it ok.

[gggbills]

I thought for sure one of those Pats trolls would show up by now to call us all a bunch of sore losers, bitter, obsessed witht the past, etc.

Any I forgot?

396260[/snapback]

 

No, even Pats trolls want no part of this game. They know what happen. The thing that really makes this game stand out, is that it was more than one unbelieveable bad call that cost the Bills the game. It is rare when you have two calls at the end of a game, each (had they not been called), would have ended the game. This is different from the tuck rule game or the phantom head in the end-zone Jets game. The refs had to make two mistakes just to make the first bad call, (his feet were inbounds AND he had enough yards for the 1st down). Add to that a PI call on a Hail Mary that I have never seen called before or after that game.

 

I must say I will have to take a shot of Jack D. just to get this thread out of my mind tonight. I remember being in total shock after watching this game. And since then, I have never seen a string of events (or bad calls if you will), that come close to matching what happen in that game. OK, now where's that Jack!!

[BuffOrange]

and the pats have been SCREWED-OVER on the wrong side of calls more then you can ever imagine.and theres been a few calls that have been big-time OVERBLOWN by pea-brain fans over the years when the actual correct call was made by the refs in favor of the pats,but they were CORRECT calls.

i can still remember ty law being called for pass interference on moulds early in that first quarter of game one of the 03 seaso(bills won 31-0).law barely grazed moulds and the ball was over thrown by TEN yards easy and was absolutely uncatchable.

396878[/snapback]

 

That's great that your #1A example of getting screwed came in a 31-0 defeat.

 

In addition to all of the previous mentioned games vs. the Bills, Raiders, and Colts, there's the Bears game in '02 where the Pats were given a 1st down on a very close 3rd down play in the closing seconds without a measurement as the clock mysteriously stopped without a timeout....WTF? I mean, you either have to measure or keep the clock running. Or the Jets game last year in NE when PI was finally called against NE on a 50 yard pass before the refs realized PI can't be called on NE and they picked up the flag....This stuff just doesn't happen to ANY other team.

[BRH]

and of course theres that cheaters(eric allens) part in this play,when on the play before the tuck call,eric chased brady out of bounds and over heard weises next call while he was still on the pats sideline and knew what play it was. talk about bush league cheating. why anybody would want to win that way and feel good about it i will never understand. i would have said,hey weis,i overheard your play call (while im on your sidelines) and i know exactly what play that is,change it up cause i dont wanna win like this,why would i

If you look up "reaching" in the dictionary, I think this quote might be there.

 

Nobody gets breaks like New England has over the last five years. Nobody. While it's true that good teams make their own breaks, and this team is good, no team is THAT good.

[IDBillzFan]

and of course theres that cheaters(eric allens) part in this play,when on the play before the tuck call,eric chased brady out of bounds and over heard weises next call while he was still on the pats sideline and knew what play it was. talk about bush league cheating. why anybody would want to win that way and feel good about it i will never understand. i would have said,hey weis,i overheard your play call (while im on your sidelines) and i know exactly what play that is,change it up cause i dont wanna win like this,why would i.-- (allen admitted this on his espn show last year btw).  so tell your blind buddy that only the pats got cheated on that tuck play by not getting a roughing the passer call(that was most clearly missed) and a first down with a extra 15 yards.

396878[/snapback]

If Weis was stupid enough to call the play while a Raider is standing next to him, that's not cheating on the Raiders' behalf, it's stupidity on the Patriots' behalf.

 

Without question this has now earned the lofty spot of being the fourth dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.

[R. Rich]

the tuck rule was there long before that game and is still there(for a good reason).and was called correctly that game to.

 

even though im a pats fan,i do recall the-just give it to them- game. and will admit the bills got screwed HARD.

 

now back to your BLIND friend who cries over the nfl rule book because the raider fans dont like to literally follow rules. be sure to tell him that not only was the tuck rule called correctly,tell him he tuck rule should have never been brought up in the first place because of the HUGE missed call, wich was charles woodson open hand b_i_t_c_h slapping brady on the side of the head on that play and getting away with a 15 yard roughing the passer penalty.(even some oakland beat writers wrote this much). if anybody got screwed out of a call on that play,it was the pats(no boubt about that).

and of course theres that cheaters(eric allens) part in this play,when on the play before the tuck call,eric chased brady out of bounds and over heard weises next call while he was still on the pats sideline and knew what play it was. talk about bush league cheating. why anybody would want to win that way and feel good about it i will never understand. i would have said,hey weis,i overheard your play call (while im on your sidelines) and i know exactly what play that is,change it up cause i dont wanna win like this,why would i.-- (allen admitted this on his espn show last year btw).  so tell your blind buddy that only the pats got cheated on that tuck play by not getting a roughing the passer call(that was most clearly missed) and a first down with a extra 15 yards.

and on the paten play,the guy was out of bounds touching the ball in bounds.the ball is dead.thats a simple one.thats not a bad call at all.its quite a good one and makes perfect sense.whenever i think of that play,the first thing that comes to mind is,why the FORK did david just not step out of bounds on that play to begin with??? he could have simply stepped out of bounds without taking a hit.he had nowhere to go and foolishley took on a incoming player and took a hit when he absolutely did not have to. play should have never happened,just step out of bounds.

and the pats have been SCREWED-OVER on the wrong side of calls more then you can ever imagine.and theres been a few calls that have been big-time OVERBLOWN by pea-brain fans over the years when the actual correct call was made by the refs in favor of the pats,but they were CORRECT calls.

i can still remember ty law being called for pass interference on moulds early in that first quarter of game one of the 03 seaso(bills won 31-0).law barely grazed moulds and the ball was over thrown by TEN yards easy and was absolutely uncatchable.

or the miami game in 03 in miami(pats won with a overtime bomb to brown) when the refs gave chambers credit for a catch right before the end of the fourth quarter,even though chambers had one of his feet clearly out of bounds by about 5 inches. the pass went for about 25 yards and put them in position  for a game winning fg(wich i believe was blocked) that could of won the game.

--hell,even the refs blew the coin toss for that overtime flip. a miami player called heads and the coin landed on tails but the refs F-ED up and gave miami possession. 

theres about 10 different other times i can think of on the top of my head where the pats got F-ED hard by the refs.

396878[/snapback]

 

 

Not bad. I mean, @ least you acknowledge that the PI call on Jones and the previous 4th down that Jefferson still did not get were blown calls. I respect your take on the other calls.

[TheMadCap]

and of course theres that cheaters(eric allens) part in this play,when on the play before the tuck call,eric chased brady out of bounds and over heard weises next call while he was still on the pats sideline and knew what play it was. talk about bush league cheating. why anybody would want to win that way and feel good about it i will never understand. i would have said,hey weis,i overheard your play call (while im on your sidelines) and i know exactly what play that is,change it up cause i dont wanna win like this,why would i.-- (allen admitted this on his espn show last year btw).   so tell your blind buddy that only the pats got cheated on that tuck play by not getting a roughing the passer call(that was most clearly missed) and a first down with a extra 15 yards.

396878[/snapback]

 

 

And that's Allen's fault why? Perhaps a bit unsportsmanlike, but not against the rules. It's not like the guy went over there and hung out waiting to hear the call. I think Weis is an idiot for calling a play when the other team is within listening distance.

 

And while we are at it, what about the 1st down in SB XXXVIII in the first half that wasn't even close! NOT EVEN CLOSE! Just give it to them. The biggest sham "dynasty" in history. Three wins by the skin of your teeth is no dynasty.

 

 

P.S. Yes, I know about the obvious make-up call on the fumble by Muhammad on the next possession. That doesn't change the fact that the refs, in the superbowl mind you, blew an easy call. Most curious don't you think....

[TheMadCap]

If Weis was stupid enough to call the play while a Raider is standing next to him, that's not cheating on the Raiders' behalf, it's stupidity on the Patriots' behalf.

 

Without question this has now earned the lofty spot of being the fourth dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.

397021[/snapback]

 

LABILLZ, you beat me to it. I think you should rank the dumbest quotes for our viewing pleasure...